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 Old 06-27-2018, 02:45 PM   #1
 
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Default 2008 speed3 - Stalls after turning ac off

My speed3 just started stalling the other day when I run with the ac on. I monitored the system with torque app, and 2 seconds after I push the ac on, the afr goes from 15ish to 18/19, and the short fuel trim from 2% pegged to 25%. The car then has hunting/roaming idle from 700rpm to about 1100. The vacuum hovers back and forth around 10 and 15 inHg. If I turn off the ac, the car stalls about 80% of the time.
If it doesn't stall, the afr drops to low 14, and then hovers back around 15, and fuel trim goes back to around 4%. The hunting idle still persists, but not nearly as bad. Maybe 700-900 rpm, and the vacuum drops to 20inHg.

If I don't turn ac on at all, I won't noticed any problems, and afr and fuel trim seem normal throughout the drive.

I cleaned the maf sensor, and my car idles at 20 inHg on the vacuum gauge if I don't use the AC.

This all started when I unplugged the boost solenoid to try and diagnose why I'm only hitting 10-12 psi. Stock setup, stock tune, just catback exhaust. The boost solenoid is plugged back in, I just triple checked it right before posting this.


Post-post Edit:
I've had the car a little over a year now. I just installed a boost gauge around february 5th of this year, and have never seen the gauge go higher than 12 psi in any gear, up to about 105 mph. I've never had idle issues with/without AC on until just a few days ago when I was finally trying to figure out why I was not seeing the supposedly stock boost levels of 15-16. Only thing I touched was the tmic plastic cover (removed), and unplugged the boost control solenoid electrical connector thinking it would be a bypass for the solenoid. I noticed no change with it unplugged, besides a lot more backfiring, so I plugged it back in.
The next day is when the issues started happening on the drive to work. I checked the solenoid and the lines on it were still connected, so I removed them and checked the lines were not clogged, and reinstalled them. I then cleaned out the MAF. This was yesterday.
Today, still had problems with the AC on, but with it off, the idle was much improved. I then checked the solenoid lines again just before posting, and now we are here.
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 Old 06-27-2018, 03:21 PM   #2
 
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Originally Posted by aeonpsych View Post
My speed3 just started stalling the other day when I run with the ac on. I monitored the system with torque app, and 2 seconds after I push the ac on, the afr goes from 15ish to 18/19, and the short fuel trim from 2% pegged to 25%. The car then has hunting/roaming idle from 700rpm to about 1100. The vacuum hovers back and forth around 10 and 15 inHg. If I turn off the ac, the car stalls about 80% of the time.
If it doesn't stall, the afr drops to low 14, and then hovers back around 15, and fuel trim goes back to around 4%. The hunting idle still persists, but not nearly as bad. Maybe 700-900 rpm, and the vacuum drops to 20inHg.

If I don't turn ac on at all, I won't noticed any problems, and afr and fuel trim seem normal throughout the drive.

I cleaned the maf sensor, and my car idles at 20 inHg on the vacuum gauge if I don't use the AC.

This all started when I unplugged the boost solenoid to try and diagnose why I'm only hitting 10-12 psi. Stock setup, stock tune, just catback exhaust. The boost solenoid is plugged back in, I just triple checked it right before posting this.
Sounds like a leak. Intake manifold would leak both under vaccuum and boost, so I'd start there. Also, as a general rule of thumb, check the last place you worked before you had the problem. If you're running the stock boost controller, those nipples are REAL easy to break.
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 Old 06-27-2018, 10:40 PM   #3
 
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If it was leaking, I would think it wouldn't hold 20 under vacuum (which I thought was normal), am I wrong about this?

And yea, I checked the solenoid again right before I posted here, it was the third time I checked it. If it's broken, then must be clogged or small/hairline crack that I couldn't visually see. I will try and check it again in the morning.
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 Old 06-27-2018, 11:02 PM   #4
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Went to OP's website -- he tried to sell me CUTE ANIMAL ENAMEL PIN SETS, and MAGIC DIY BRAIDING HAIR BAND.

fuck you OP, figure this out yourself you rich ass bastard.
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 Old 06-27-2018, 11:33 PM   #5
 
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Originally Posted by Pu Manchu View Post
Went to OP's website -- he tried to sell me CUTE ANIMAL ENAMEL PIN SETS, and MAGIC DIY BRAIDING HAIR BAND.

fuck you OP, figure this out yourself you rich ass bastard.
Not sure why/where the hostility is coming from, but I'll go ahead and shed some light on some stuff since it has been brought up.

1. The website was actually an experiment that I started almost a year ago now, and has since ended almost 6 months ago... Thanks for reminding me to remove that link.
2. Just because someone "sells stuff" no matter what it is, no matter how, does not mean they are "rich ass bastards". I am actually -$383.97 from this experiment I was trying. Yes, in the RED over $350 on it.
3. Just for the record, don't assume someone is rich without knowing anything beyond "They have a website with products for sale on it". On the 1st of July, I will actually have $-27.29 in my bank account until the 6th. Based on this, I'm going to take a wild shot and say you are probably better off than I am at this point in time. So if I am a rich ass bastard, what does that make you?



OT:
I've had the car a little over a year now. I just installed a boost gauge around february 5th of this year, and have never seen the gauge go higher than 12 psi in any gear, up to about 105 mph. I've never had idle issues with/without AC on until just a few days ago when I was finally trying to figure out why I was not seeing the supposedly stock boost levels of 15-16. Only thing I touched was the tmic plastic cover (removed), and unplugged the boost control solenoid electrical connector thinking it would be a bypass for the solenoid. I noticed no change with it unplugged, besides a lot more backfiring, so I plugged it back in.
The next day is when the issues started happening on the drive to work. I checked the solenoid and the lines on it were still connected, so I removed them and checked the lines were not clogged, and reinstalled them. I then cleaned out the MAF. This was yesterday.
Today, still had problems with the AC on, but with it off, the idle was much improved. I then checked the solenoid lines again just before posting, and now we are here.
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 Old 06-28-2018, 02:44 AM   #6
 
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Default A/C stall

Did you check draw at A/C clutch?
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 Old 06-28-2018, 03:13 AM   #7
 
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Originally Posted by aeonpsych View Post
If it was leaking, I would think it wouldn't hold 20 under vacuum (which I thought was normal), am I wrong about this?
An engine is just an air pump that's ALWAYS sucking in air, but it can only suck in air at barometric pressure unless you force more air into it. Boost is simply a POSITIVE compressed pressure (in PSI) above atmospheric pressure (inHg). Zero boost is obviously below atmospheric pressure, so it will register as negative inHg. A boost leak or spike would be easy to see on a boost gauge, as it affects boost pressure. A vacuum leak may not register at all, depending on where it is.

Either way, the ECU reads MAF, MAP, and O2 Sensor data to keep your AFRs in check. Leaks will throw off your air flow data, pressure data, or both.
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 Old 06-28-2018, 04:48 AM   #8
 
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Originally Posted by wowndup View Post
Did you check draw at A/C clutch?
No, I wasn't certain if the A/C is even the culprit, it just seems to exacerbate the issue, as the idle is still somewhat rough even without AC (rougher than it normally has been, at least, although cleaning the MAF sensor did seem to help for symptoms without AC on. And the car won't stall with the AC on, just when shutting the ac off will it stall at idle. With the ac on cruising around, it seems to act the same as if the ac wasn't on, just at idle is where the issue seems to be around.

Originally Posted by Solarsurge View Post
An engine is just an air pump that's ALWAYS sucking in air, but it can only suck in air at barometric pressure unless you force more air into it. Boost is simply a POSITIVE compressed pressure (in PSI) above atmospheric pressure (inHg). Zero boost is obviously below atmospheric pressure, so it will register as negative inHg. A boost leak or spike would be easy to see on a boost gauge, as it affects boost pressure. A vacuum leak may not register at all, depending on where it is.

Either way, the ECU reads MAF, MAP, and O2 Sensor data to keep your AFRs in check. Leaks will throw off your air flow data, pressure data, or both.

According to Torque app, AFR reads 14.5-15.2 while cruising at 40 mph. 14.9 idle, and pretty steady. Once that AC comes on, is where it will go 18+, as well as the short term fuel trim going from a steady 2-4% to 25%.
Fuel rail pressure reads around 400-600 idle, and up to 1700 when I get on it, that I've seen.
Battery volts reads 13.2-14 while idling and/or running. With or without a/c on.
The boost/Vacuum gauge in torque reads the exact same as the physical one I just installed in February.

Steady at 20 inHg at idle, and steady 10-18 inHg while I am cruising (depending on throttle position). Full throttle in 4th at 4k+ rpms will almost instantly go 12psi, and hold there, even through full throttle shift into 5th gear.

Unfortunately, I can not find a way to log Wastegate duty cycle (as I have read from other forum posts to try and diagnose low boost issues). I'm not sure if Torque can monitor that, and if it does, I don't know what it is labeled as.



I know that when I got the car last year it sounded as if the cat honeycomb had already fallen apart and was shaking around. Is it possible I have a destroyed cat by now, and maybe has caused a blockage that would cause these symptoms?

Otherwise, like was mentioned I would have to check thoroughly for vacuum leaks, and or abnormal voltage draw. I guess I will have to try and find someone locally that has tools to do a real boost/vacuum leak check, because I have been unable to see any by visually inspecting the hoses, even removed from the car.


Lastly, I used to drive an acura integra, which used an IACV to control the idle. When I had an issue with that valve, it was acting the same as my mazda is now. Is there a similar system in the mazda that I should inspect?
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 Old 06-28-2018, 05:07 AM   #9
 
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Well, start car and spray starter fluid at/around the boost contol solenoid.... If car changes behavior then you have a leak right there....
Also, @Pu Manchu; was just messing with you. We know you're not rich, rich people don't drive mazdaspeeds
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 Old 06-28-2018, 05:10 AM   #10
 
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The car is, like mine, ten years old. Vacuum lines are rubber. They harden and split over time. Some of the splits are very fine and difficult to see. I've had to replace all of them over time.

Replacement lines are cheap. Buy at auto parts store by the foot and cut to size.

Many or maybe all of your symptoms seem related to leaks from a vacuum line. Yes, you can still hold normal vacuum at idle and not hold boost.

Begin with the lines from and to the electronic boost controller. Be careful with those plastic nipples, as stated in an earlier post here. Then, do the one for your bypass valve.

This may also explain why you are running 10-12 psi max and have shitty AFRs and trims.

Test with a/c off.

If all is well after replacing those line but the car still stumbles with a/c on, the a/c compressor clutch is probably bad.

Let us know if that solves/improves your issues.
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 Old 06-28-2018, 05:21 AM   #11
 
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Originally Posted by kTaLgsTo View Post
Well, start car and spray starter fluid at/around the boost contol solenoid.... If car changes behavior then you have a leak right there....
Also, @Pu Manchu; was just messing with you. We know you're not rich, rich people don't drive mazdaspeeds
Even the ones that run 750hp Big Turbo? Lol

I'm honestly not dismayed by it all that bad. Just more or less in awe as it came out of nowhere haha. Also, without explanation, just seeing that website I have seems like such a fail, I feel like I had to explain what it was. The bright side of it, is that I was able to prove to someone what is what (Edit: this someone is not in relation to this forums)

Originally Posted by MSMS3 View Post
The car is, like mine, ten years old. Vacuum lines are rubber. They harden and split over time. Some of the splits are very fine and difficult to see. I've had to replace all of them over time.

Replacement lines are cheap. Buy at auto parts store by the foot and cut to size.

Many or maybe all of your symptoms seem related to leaks from a vacuum line. Yes, you can still hold normal vacuum at idle and not hold boost.

Begin with the lines from and to the electronic boost controller. Be careful with those plastic nipples, as stated in an earlier post here. Then, do the one for your bypass valve.

This may also explain why you are running 10-12 psi max and have shitty AFRs and trims.

Test with a/c off.

If all is well after replacing those line but the car still stumbles with a/c on, the a/c compressor clutch is probably bad.

Let us know if that solves/improves your issues.

Yea, I will try and make it to the auto store to get some stuff to help check for leaks. I honestly can't find where all my stuff went, and my friend that would have some used the last of his last week... Does anyone happen to know the correct sizing of lines I will need off the top of their head?
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 Old 06-28-2018, 06:58 AM   #12
 
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Originally Posted by aeonpsych View Post
Even the ones that run 750hp Big Turbo?
Those are just people with their priorities backwards
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 Old 06-28-2018, 07:58 AM   #13
 
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Originally Posted by kTaLgsTo View Post
Those are just people with their priorities backwards






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 Old 06-28-2018, 11:46 PM   #14
 
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You all are savage, haha!



Checked the boost solenoid lines again this morning, the nipples are still attached, and don't seem like they are on the verge of breaking (like flimsy or wiggly). Got some starter fluid, sprayed the sht out of the ebcs and corresponding lines to it, both ends. No change at all while the car was idling.

Proceeded to spray the sht out of the oem bov/recirc valve seal, vacuum, and recirc hose, also no change.

Sprayed the shit out of the oem tmic hoses, and where the IC is clamped at top/bottom sides, no change.

Sprayed the sht out of the intake pipe and manifold wherever I could properly get a spray in. No change.

Sprayed the shit out of the cluster fk of hoses/wires that are ran along the driver side of the motor tucked on the side of the motor and battery. No change.

My friend told me that I probably didn't clean the MAF sensor good enough, that I really needed to get up in there with the spray and not just a few sprays like I did, so I went ahead and went back over that real good just now, and waiting for it to dry as of this writing.


Last check I am waiting to do is waiting for the MAF to dry and then drive around and then test driving around with the AC on again. I guess Clutch is on it's way out if it acts up again with the ac on. Still wouldn't explain the max 12 psi I've ever seen in the car though?

Edit: Only places I didn't get real good with engine start spray was on the side of the intake manifold touching the block, and the intake hose right down by the turbo, as it's hot AF in that tight spot, and I also didn't want to risk flamethrowering myself
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 Old 06-29-2018, 04:29 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by aeonpsych View Post
You all are savage, haha!



Checked the boost solenoid lines again this morning, the nipples are still attached, and don't seem like they are on the verge of breaking (like flimsy or wiggly). Got some starter fluid, sprayed the sht out of the ebcs and corresponding lines to it, both ends. No change at all while the car was idling.

Proceeded to spray the sht out of the oem bov/recirc valve seal, vacuum, and recirc hose, also no change.

Sprayed the shit out of the oem tmic hoses, and where the IC is clamped at top/bottom sides, no change.

Sprayed the sht out of the intake pipe and manifold wherever I could properly get a spray in. No change.

Sprayed the shit out of the cluster fk of hoses/wires that are ran along the driver side of the motor tucked on the side of the motor and battery. No change.

My friend told me that I probably didn't clean the MAF sensor good enough, that I really needed to get up in there with the spray and not just a few sprays like I did, so I went ahead and went back over that real good just now, and waiting for it to dry as of this writing.


Last check I am waiting to do is waiting for the MAF to dry and then drive around and then test driving around with the AC on again. I guess Clutch is on it's way out if it acts up again with the ac on. Still wouldn't explain the max 12 psi I've ever seen in the car though?

Edit: Only places I didn't get real good with engine start spray was on the side of the intake manifold touching the block, and the intake hose right down by the turbo, as it's hot AF in that tight spot, and I also didn't want to risk flamethrowering myself
If you bought the car used, it's possible that someone had modified it before you owned it. Do you happen to know if the car was ever tuned? If so, the previous owner might've left an off-the-shelf tune on the vehicle that could limit boost to only about 12psi.
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 Old 06-29-2018, 05:44 AM   #16
 
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instead of using juice to check leaks, just replace your intake tube by a cheap home made boost leak tester and you will ear where it leaks in few seconds...
(You can find a lot of thread about it but i just took a threaded metal pipe the intake size and screw a cap on one end where i taped a compressor air fitting. Tadam! i have a 7.95$ boost leak tester....you can use the regulator of your air tank to limit pressure.
You don't need more than 10-15psi to get it...

You work around the AC but i think it happen because the ac trigger an higher iddle speed that change the leak proportion vs the TB opening....You can check if the compressor run fine and the bearing isn't shot but then, move on the leak problem.
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Originally Posted by Vansquish View Post
If you bought the car used, it's possible that someone had modified it before you owned it. Do you happen to know if the car was ever tuned? If so, the previous owner might've left an off-the-shelf tune on the vehicle that could limit boost to only about 12psi.
I bought it from the 2nd owner last year. I'm told the first owner never touched it, and the second owner only put on the catback exhaust, and 2nd cat delete (that I just found out the other night). As far as I know, there isn't a tune on the vehicle, but if there was a boost limiting tune, wouldn't I be able to get around it by bypassing the boost solenoid which I originally tried doing which led to the car acting up afterwards? I don't have any reason to believe the car was modified beyond the exhaust. I got the car with an average of 11k miles on it, in great condition both ext/int, and have had almost no issues with it since getting it a year ago. I'm fairly certain the previous owner would have not been able to modify it, as the only reason I ended up getting the car in the first place was because he was super upside down on the car financially. He was paying over $350 a month on car payments, and like $280/month on insurance or some sht like that.



Originally Posted by Jeff23spl View Post
instead of using juice to check leaks, just replace your intake tube by a cheap home made boost leak tester and you will ear where it leaks in few seconds...
(You can find a lot of thread about it but i just took a threaded metal pipe the intake size and screw a cap on one end where i taped a compressor air fitting. Tadam! i have a 7.95$ boost leak tester....you can use the regulator of your air tank to limit pressure.
You don't need more than 10-15psi to get it...

You work around the AC but i think it happen because the ac trigger an higher iddle speed that change the leak proportion vs the TB opening....You can check if the compressor run fine and the bearing isn't shot but then, move on the leak problem.

I am going to try and piece something together this weekend. I don't have a compressor anymore, but I think my friend has one that still works.

As for the A/C, and re-cleaned MAF sensor, I was not able to get out again last night. I ended up passing out on my bed while I was waiting, just after I posted on the forum.

I'll test it in a few minutes, I was planning to pick up some spark plugs at the store yesterday, but they didn't have the ones I wanted at the location I was at, so I'll be headed there shortly.




If I don't have a leak and turns out ac is bad, 12 psi sounds like I'm running off wastegate spring pressure, correct? So that means I possibly have a bad wg actuator or ebcs, or I unknowingly have a safe tune?
The sht part about having the tune is I don't know anyone with a mazda tuning device in my area, and and aren't all the cobb ap vin specific anyways?

Honestly, if I can just get the car back running good, 12 psi isn't that big of a concern for me right now, I rarely go over 8psi as it is... That broke life me loves getting 27+mpg city w/AC haha.


Edit: let the car idle for 15 minutes before heading to auto store (after reconnect MAF and battery, to let the ecu relearn), and still had roaming idle only with AC on for the drive to the auto store.
This is where it gets weird. I turned the ac off for the last 2 blocks to the store. Coming out of the store, I'm heading straight to work, and turn the ac on about 3 miles out from work. No issues. I'm sitting in the parking lot at work a total of 8 miles from the auto store, idling with the ac on as I write this.

Current torque readings:
14.55 afr
15.9 inHg vacuum
-0.8 stft
759 rpm
3.12 ltft

Wtf???
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 Old 06-29-2018, 07:16 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by aeonpsych View Post
As far as I know, there isn't a tune on the vehicle, but if there was a boost limiting tune, wouldn't I be able to get around it by bypassing the boost solenoid which I originally tried doing which led to the car acting up afterwards? I don't have any reason to believe the car was modified beyond the exhaust.
In short, no. I'm not sure what you think you did by "bypassing the boost solenoid". It sounds like you were lucky, and your turbo only achieved the wastegate spring pressure boost value. On stock vehicles, that's about 10-12psi.

I would counsel extreme caution here. If you experiment too much without really understanding the plumbing, you could end up accidentally forcing the wastegate to stay shut, have major boost spikes, and blow your motor.

Originally Posted by aeonpsych View Post
I am going to try and piece something together this weekend. I don't have a compressor anymore, but I think my friend has one that still works.

As for the A/C, and re-cleaned MAF sensor, I was not able to get out again last night. I ended up passing out on my bed while I was waiting, just after I posted on the forum.

I'll test it in a few minutes, I was planning to pick up some spark plugs at the store yesterday, but they didn't have the ones I wanted at the location I was at, so I'll be headed there shortly.

If I don't have a leak and turns out ac is bad, 12 psi sounds like I'm running off wastegate spring pressure, correct? So that means I possibly have a bad wg actuator or ebcs, or I unknowingly have a safe tune?
The sht part about having the tune is I don't know anyone with a mazda tuning device in my area, and and aren't all the cobb ap vin specific anyways?

Honestly, if I can just get the car back running good, 12 psi isn't that big of a concern for me right now, I rarely go over 8psi as it is... That broke life me loves getting 27+mpg city w/AC haha.


Edit: let the car idle for 15 minutes before heading to auto store (after reconnect MAF and battery, to let the ecu relearn), and still had roaming idle only with AC on for the drive to the auto store.
This is where it gets weird. I turned the ac off for the last 2 blocks to the store. Coming out of the store, I'm heading straight to work, and turn the ac on about 3 miles out from work. No issues. I'm sitting in the parking lot at work a total of 8 miles from the auto store, idling with the ac on as I write this.

Current torque readings:
14.55 afr
15.9 inHg vacuum
-0.8 stft
759 rpm
3.12 ltft

Wtf???
A snapshot of the data doesn't really give enough information to make any sort of informed diagnoses. You really should consider getting yourself a proper datalogging/tuning device. Used Cobb APs do exist, and they even pop up for sale on this here forum on a fairly regular basis.
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 Old 06-30-2018, 04:20 AM   #19
 
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I just disconnected the boost solenoid electrical connector as I stated originally. No lines were changed or disconnected. I'm actually pretty sure I read on a thread on this site that doing this will bypass the electronic boost limiter...

I might be mistaken, but aren't the AP useless unless you register them with cobb, and mate it to a single vin, and to be able to do that you have to take some proprietary tuning class?

In any case, I might have been able to find a way to log with torque app, so I might not need an AP at this point in time (although I will be looking to get one or an alternative in the near future)

Car still seems to be behaving fine after work today. Did not need the AC, but drove around the parking lot with it on for a couple minutes, and didn't have any noticeable issues. Still no idea what the issue was as I hadn't changed anything when the issue seemed to resolve itself. I'm wondering if maybe the freon level is at a sensitive level where certain conditions are causing the levels to barely be outside operable conditions, thus causing the rapid on/off of the system, thus erratic idle. Is this a plausible theory?

Still have not resolved the 12psi issue yet.
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 Old 06-30-2018, 05:17 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by aeonpsych View Post
I just disconnected the boost solenoid electrical connector as I stated originally. No lines were changed or disconnected. I'm actually pretty sure I read on a thread on this site that doing this will bypass the electronic boost limiter...
That all made sense until you got to, "doing this will bypass the electronic boost limiter." Unplugging the EBCS electrical connector will not allow the ECU to command specific boost targets. That is, boost pressure will be limited to wastegate spring pressure. The boost limit set in the stock tune is about 15.5psi, while spring pressure is between 10 and 12 psi.

In other words, unplugging the EBCS will actually reduce the amount of boost that your car can produce.

Originally Posted by aeonpsych View Post
I might be mistaken, but aren't the AP useless unless you register them with cobb, and mate it to a single vin, and to be able to do that you have to take some proprietary tuning class?
That is not correct. When you buy an AP and install it (marry it) to your car, you have the ability to load whatever maps you want, and an e-tuner like Stratified Tuning, Dizzy Tuning, Hypnotic Tuning, FreekTune, or the like can provide you with a map that is customized to your modifications. As long as you buy an UN-MARRIED AP, you can buy one used and it'll work just fine on your car. Any version of the AP that is intended to be used with the Mazdaspeed3 or Mazdaspeed6 will work, but APs for other platforms (Subaru, Mitsubishi, Nissan, etc.) will NOT work on our cars.

The AP will also allow you to datalog properly and to read and clear codes if necessary.

If YOU want to create a custom tune yourself, you would have to buy the training class for AccessTunerRace (ATR) in order to get an unlocked copy of AccessTunerRace.

Originally Posted by aeonpsych View Post
I'm wondering if maybe the freon level is at a sensitive level where certain conditions are causing the levels to barely be outside operable conditions, thus causing the rapid on/off of the system, thus erratic idle. Is this a plausible theory?
If you're worried about this, and you don't have the appropriate AC system pressure testing equipment or know-how, I strongly recommend going to an AC repair shop. If you over-charge the system with refrigerant (R134a), you can cause damage to the AC compressor.

I would suggest that you check to see if the AC clutch is engaging properly. You should be able to see it from the top of the passenger side of the engine. Turn the car on, turn the AC on, and watch to see if the AC compressor clutch spins properly and doesn't randomly stick and continue rotating when the compressor is supposed to be shut off (you should be able to hear the magnetic AC clutch engage with a noticeable "click" each time it is supposed to be on).

Originally Posted by aeonpsych View Post
Still have not resolved the 12psi issue yet.
I suspect that you may have a broken nipple on either the EBCS or on the turbo inlet pipe where the EBCS line is connected. To me, it sounds like you've got a leak that is preventing the EBCS from properly closing the wastegate on the turbo, but without a datalog to show as much, including WGDC Actual vs. WGDC commanded, it's going to be hard to know.
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 Old 06-30-2018, 12:29 PM   #21
 
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Yea, when I had the solenoid disconnected I was just trying to see if I was able to get spring pressure in first and 2nd gear to try and diagnose a bad solenoid, but I guess I should know it is working properly since I'm not getting over 10 psi until 3rd+

Torque actually has a 3rd party addon that is mazdaspeed 1st Gen specific that logs additional things like wgdc. Only problem is it costs $10, and I'm not sure my version of torque is compatible with it, as my version came pre installed on my head unit. I might just go out and purchase the ad on anyways if I can figure out how to save the torque logs as worst case I can just get Google to refund me if I doesn't work.

I'm not necessarily worried about the ac levels, but just curious if that could be the problem... I was planning on checking the engagement, but it was not acting up yesterday when I was letting it idle to do the ecu relearn. Only after I drove away for about 2 blocks did it start acting up again, so I just turned the AC off till after the auto store visit and when I was driving straight to work after. On the drive to work with ac on, I didn't have any problems, nor with it idling in the parking lot at work for over 5 minutes.

As for the nipples for the ebcs. They are all still attached. Maybe they might be clogged, or cracked, but I did spray a decent amount of engine start on the hoses and no change. I sprayed a small bit straight into the intake just to see what the change would be to see if it was even good spray and/or noticeable, and it is. So if there is a leak, it's not big enough at idle vacuum to suck in the spray. So while this could still be the reason for less than 12 psi, I don't think it is related to the erratic idle.

I will be doing extended testing on it again today shortly, just need to try and figure out if I can get the mazdaspeed add on for torque to work, and then datalogs with it.


Thanks for all the help so far, I'm coming from pre 2000 Hondas where the bays aren't super packed tight and everything isn't controlled electronically, so I'm still trying to catch up on what is what and what is/isn't normal behavior for the Mazda.

Edit: I just remembered this, about a week ago, my ac cut out while idling for a while at a drive through. It didn't come back on for about another 8 minutes or so. I read up that it was because there is a design flaw with the pressure switch and cabin filter, and that it can actually freeze over causing a blockage. Could this be relevant, to my issues now, or is what I read about the design flaws accurate?
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 Old 06-30-2018, 12:54 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by aeonpsych View Post
Yea, when I had the solenoid disconnected I was just trying to see if I was able to get spring pressure in first and 2nd gear to try and diagnose a bad solenoid, but I guess I should know it is working properly since I'm not getting over 10 psi until 3rd+
This could be a clue, actually. The MS3 is torque-limited on the stock tune in first and second gears, but not in 3-6.

Originally Posted by aeonpsych View Post
Torque actually has a 3rd party addon that is mazdaspeed 1st Gen specific that logs additional things like wgdc. Only problem is it costs $10, and I'm not sure my version of torque is compatible with it, as my version came pre installed on my head unit. I might just go out and purchase the ad on anyways if I can figure out how to save the torque logs as worst case I can just get Google to refund me if I doesn't work.
If your head-unit has Torque installed, the head unit (and possibly other things on the car) is definitely not stock.

Originally Posted by aeonpsych View Post
As for the nipples for the ebcs. They are all still attached. Maybe they might be clogged, or cracked, but I did spray a decent amount of engine start on the hoses and no change. I sprayed a small bit straight into the intake just to see what the change would be to see if it was even good spray and/or noticeable, and it is. So if there is a leak, it's not big enough at idle vacuum to suck in the spray. So while this could still be the reason for less than 12 psi, I don't think it is related to the erratic idle.
Have you checked the vacuum hoses leading to the bypass valve, and to the variable tumble control system (VTCS) actuator on the driver's side of the intake manifold?

You may also want to take a look at the purge valve solenoid that sits alongside the driver's side of the valve cover. The purge valve solenoid is a common failure on these motors, and can cause vacuum leak behavior. It is an easily-replaceable part ($11-$20) part, and can be tested easily. If you can blow through the thing from both sides, it has failed and needs replacement.

In addition, you might want to take a look at the vacuum block between runners 2 and 3 of the intake manifold to make sure that it is properly hooked up electrically, and by way of vacuum lines. One of the lines communicates air with the VTCS actuator as well.

As far as the EBCS is concerned, if there's someone local to you, you might consider swapping their EBCS into your car for a test run to see if that solves your issue.

Could you take some pictures of your engine bay so that we can see what all might've been changed in there? I have a sneaking suspicion that there's going to be an obvious cause when we see what's in there.

Originally Posted by aeonpsych View Post
Edit: I just remembered this, about a week ago, my ac cut out while idling for a while at a drive through. It didn't come back on for about another 8 minutes or so. I read up that it was because there is a design flaw with the pressure switch and cabin filter, and that it can actually freeze over causing a blockage. Could this be relevant, to my issues now, or is what I read about the design flaws accurate?
I don't know how that would change your car's idle behavior to the extent that the car wants to stall when switching from AC on to AC off and/or vice versa. To me, it sounds like you've got a substantial vacuum leak in combination with a substantial load change.
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 Old 06-30-2018, 01:23 PM   #23
 
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I just want to clarify real quick. The head unit is an aftermarket Eonon android touch screen unit designed to be compatible with the stock mazda steering wheel controls. I installed this myself about 3 months ago. It came pre loaded with some version of torque pro. I got an obd2 bluetooth adapter that links in with Bluetooth to the head unit. As far as I know, the only things that are not OEM on the car are:
Wheels
Clutch
Catback exhaust with 2nd cat delete
Radio head unit
Boost gauge

The only relevant parts would be exhaust and boost guage, both of which I stated already.

The only things I've done with the car mechanically since owning it:
Spark plug change to the ngk ix11s gapped at 32 (5k miles ago),
Air filter replace (5k miles ago)
MAF sensor clean (5k and 15 miles ago)
Oil change (both at 5k miles ago, and then just last night)
Clutch and clutch bearing replace (bearing was making noise, done 8k miles ago)
Air box delete (8k miles ago, the box mounting actually broke when I took it out to get to the tranny/clutch)
Installed boost gauge (about 3k miles ago).
Exhaust was done before I even got the car (12k+ miles ago)

I'm going to up some pics in a minute

Edit: uploaded pics. I'm not sure if that piece in the last picture is what you are referring to, but I was unable to blow through it. Also, the pictures were auto rotated from the upload, so sorry about that...
The vacuum lines to the box look good, as well as the other ends of them.
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 Old 06-30-2018, 03:07 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by aeonpsych View Post
I just want to clarify real quick. The head unit is an aftermarket Eonon android touch screen unit designed to be compatible with the stock mazda steering wheel controls. I installed this myself about 3 months ago. It came pre loaded with some version of torque pro. I got an obd2 bluetooth adapter that links in with Bluetooth to the head unit. As far as I know, the only things that are not OEM on the car are:
Wheels
Clutch
Catback exhaust with 2nd cat delete
Radio head unit
Boost gauge

The only relevant parts would be exhaust and boost guage, both of which I stated already.

The only things I've done with the car mechanically since owning it:
Spark plug change to the ngk ix11s gapped at 32 (5k miles ago),
Air filter replace (5k miles ago)
MAF sensor clean (5k and 15 miles ago)
Oil change (both at 5k miles ago, and then just last night)
Clutch and clutch bearing replace (bearing was making noise, done 8k miles ago)
Air box delete (8k miles ago, the box mounting actually broke when I took it out to get to the tranny/clutch)
Installed boost gauge (about 3k miles ago).
Exhaust was done before I even got the car (12k+ miles ago)

I'm going to up some pics in a minute

Edit: uploaded pics. I'm not sure if that piece in the last picture is what you are referring to, but I was unable to blow through it. Also, the pictures were auto rotated from the upload, so sorry about that...
The vacuum lines to the box look good, as well as the other ends of them.

Okey dokey . . .

Someone has clearly been messing around in that engine bay of yours.

Since you installed a boost gauge, I would recommend temporarily capping the portion of the T-fitting that goes to the boost gauge to see if your boost targeting symptoms change.

If you're basing your maximum boost on the boost gauge you installed, it is possible that you may not be getting the full story. Electronic data from the MAP sensor would be a more accurate way of determining your maximum achieved boost. To that end, you really should try and use the Torque app to datalog that information at a minimum.

You mentioned in another post that you think you can hear catalyst substrate rattling around inside the remaining cat. If that's the case, you could absolutely have a blockage in there that is preventing the car from producing full boost. It seems unlikely that that would be the reason for your hunting idle, however.

You also appear to be missing a vacuum fitting that runs from the valve cover to the intake (just aft of the MAF housing), but this may be meaningless. I seem to recall there was a TSB that rerouted the intake fitting from near the MAF housing down near the turbo inlet. Your car may have had this procedure done.

I am concerned about the fact that the pigtail on your MAF sensor is missing its insulation/wrap. Those wires should all be bundled together.

I don't know if you can see or squeeze your hand down in the space just to the passenger side of the intake manifold to see if there is a loose-hanging connector for the MAP sensor. If the MAP sensor has been upgraded to one with higher limits (i.e. 3bar or 3.5bar instead of 2.5bar), it would also be reading boost improperly if you're running the stock tune.

The vacuum block between runners 2/3 of your intake manifold also fits into a small hole in the intake manifold. If it has been moved around, it is possible that it isn't seated properly in that opening and thereby causing a boost leak.

Do you have an oil catch can? If so, you may be having vacuum leaks based on that.

Have you checked the PCV system? If the hose from the PCV valve to the intake manifold isn't seated properly, a vacuum leak could/would result in symptoms much like those you're experiencing.

On the electrical side, I assume the red box mounted near the passenger side fender and headlight is a ballast/igniter for an aftermarket headlight (and there appears to be a reflection of something similar on the driver's side). Neither of those things should be contributing to your issues.

As for your spark plugs, Mazda changed the specs for spark plug gap back in 2010. From that point forward they recommended 0.024" - 0.027", rather than 0.032".
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 Old 06-30-2018, 03:43 PM   #25
 
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Thanks, this is good information...

1. I have previously tried returning the boost gauge (tapped at the bov vacuum T, as seen in the picture) back to OEM, so it is only the 1 vacuum line running to the bov with no t fitting. No change according to torque boost readings.

2. I will bring up a map reading in torque (if available, I don't remember what did/didn't have readings available when I was looking through the sensors in torque) in a bit when I go out for some errands and while doing some more testing, and hopefully datalogging.

3. I'm not 100% sure on the cat, but there was rattling around when I first got the car, when going over rocky roads/bumps/etc. Coming from somewhere near the passenger footwell. At first, it sounded to my friend and I like I had blown front passenger shock, but inspected that, and was fine. Later, that same friend thought it could be the cat, as the cat in this car is right near the passenger footwell, and also he demonstrated a bad cat he had in his garage. He shook it around and it sounded very familiar. I also do get the smelling of sulfur once in a while, but I assumed it was my battery, as earlier this year my battery connections were corroded AF (I was having electrical issues during this time), and when I went to inspect the battery, it smelled exactly like that bad egg sulfur smell haha. Since fixing that, I have not really smelt that smell again, so idk about that.

4. I was wondering about that intake hose when originally taking apart the intake to get to the transmission. It has always been capped off like that since I've ever had the car. Seems like nothing was ever even routed to it... I was trying to route my bypass hose to it a while back when I noticed a tear in the line (I was just going to cap the original intake side of the bov hose, and then cut the tear off the hose, and have the shorter piece run to that port, but whoever capped that intake did a good job, as I wasn't able to pull it off, even with pliers, and I wasn't really in the mood to cause a rip for a leak there. I ended up just replacing the hose in the end.

5. Yea, idk, I'm pretty sure the pigtail was like that since when I had the car. I have inspected the wires, and they don't seem damaged in anyway visually. If I can get dataloging to work with torque, I will log this sensor as well.

6. I can reach a 3 pin connector (yellow, white, orange) ran parallel to left most intake runner, just underneath it. It is plugged in, and nothing looks newer there (that would lead me to believe aftermarket).

7. I actually unbolted the box, and lifted it up away from the manifold to inspect underneath and behind it for any cracks or damages. I actually don't remember seeing any places where it actually fits into the manifold. Maybe I just overlooked it as I was more focused on the box itself, or maybe I was just looking at the wrong box. It did have 2 vacuum lines ran into it though. 1 was ran into a different part of the box, the other to the actuator on the driver side of the manifold, which I believe to be the vcts you mentioned, so I am assuming I had the right box.

8. I haven't installed a catch can, and I haven't noticed seeing 1, so I'm assuming no.

9. I'm guessing that the pcv valve is that other black box that is literally tucked underneath the intake manifold? I have not checked anything under there.

10. Yes, I am a ricer and have aftermarket HID headlights.

11. Oh. Well I just checked the gap on them, and they are actually at 30 right now, so actually not that far off. Not sure if that's my idle issue either though, as they have been in there for the last 5k miles.


Again, thanks for the solid info. I will need to try and check out the pcv system before I head out.



Edit: Got some logs from Torque. Seems like the KR and WGDC are bugged out. As they seemed to work at one point, and then just stuck at 0 and 0.39 respectively.
The first log is just a short 4 minute drive to the auto store about 4 minutes.
The second is cruising to the freeway
the third is 3-4th gear full throttle
the fourth is another 3-4th gear pull shortly after the first
the 5th is post pulls, cruising home.

The logs from torque aren't very good, as it appears it only logged once every second. I will have to see if I can get it to log more frequently later tonight. Although I wasn't able to stare at the realtime log in torque to see what the values were, I noticed that the boost pressure would spike to 11/12 ish psi, and drop to around 8, and slowly build back up towards the end of the gear in both 4th and 5th. According to the logs, it appears as if the throttle position is closing itself during this time.
Also, did not have any idle or stalling issues today related with/without the AC. AC was on during the first log. Off during the pre pull cruise, and for 1st pull. On for 2nd pull and final cruise. It was blowing pretty cold set at 70 degrees and 3 ticks on the fan speed.
So don't know what's up with that still, and appears I may now have caused a boost leak by messing around under the hood. Maybe someone with log experience can check these out and enlighten me. Again, I will see if my adapter is capable of logging faster than once every second to get more resolution on the logs. Oh, and also try and figure out why the wgdc reading seems bugged out, unless of course it isn't, and is therefore my issue.
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 Old 07-03-2018, 05:57 AM   #26
 
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Have you done the boost leak test yet ?
Have you checked the a/c? turning the compressor by hands with engine off?
Checking for the clutch bearing play?
Looking at the clutch engagement like stated by Vansquish ?

As stated, boost before mid of the third gear remain low with stock tune so you must be in 4-5-6 to make sure it isn't a torque steer limitation .
Then the oem 2ways electronic boost control increase boost by creating a leak so if you would have a broken vacuum line, you would see too much boost instead of not enough.
Unless you have a plugged pipe or a broken EBCS, it should rise above WG spring.



Then be carefull with Torque app and a first gen, i didn't get proper results myself with the Kr reading from it on my 2007 speed3. Torque wasn't reading above 2.x deg when cobb AP could reccord above 6 on the same engine....

According to your logs, your WG duty remain at 0.39% at all time so you won't get more than WG spring pressure this way. If that reading value works, It is either an internal safety protection of the ECU or your car is in a safe tune or something like that...

You can probably filter the recorded data to only take the usefull one for better response time. As bluetooth dongle are limited in terms of reading speed.
-for throttle and pedal position get just one instead of 3
-For boost keep manifold absolute or boost not both
-If you have access to injector duty, add it.
-Catalist temp isn't a real EGT probe...

It remain hard when we don't know if the problem is from the car or from the diagnosis tool...
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 Old 07-03-2018, 07:17 PM   #27
 
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I have removed a couple parameters from logging in torque after those few logs, as I noticed a few (like the ones you mentioned) were redundant. Yea, my adapter is only doing an avg of 15 pids/sec According to torque adapter info...

Update to my issues:
I regapped spark plugs from 32 to 25. Noticeable (improved) difference in drivability. Still have not done full 4th gear pull to see if this helped boost at all.
While I was putting intercooler back on, I noticed my intake air filter was coming apart on rear of the filter (side most under the intake piping, and closes to the hoses and connectors ran next to the engine). There was a decent opening there facing the front of the motor. I tested a theory I had seeing this, and it turns out to be accurate... While ac/rad fans are turned on and/or I am cruising at high enough mph, it is pushing air through that small gap, and causing air to push over the maf. Because of this, maf thinks I am getting more airflow than actual, thus causing the increase in rpm while coming to a stop/idling. The ac on is just having the front fans running, thus pushing their own air in.

Again, still have not tested for lack of boost issue since discovering this, and also regapping plugs.

As for my datalogs, I found a setting to change log frequency in torque to make it more frequent, but I think my adapter is on it's way out. It keeps disconnecting/reconnecting every 5 minutes or so. They are sending me a new one, should have it in a week or so.

I wasn't able to test boost leaks with any kind of pressure system yet. I haven't been able to put together the pieces for it yet. So beyond visually inspecting vacuum lines (both on/off vehicle where applicable), and testing with starter fluid spray, I have not done any other tests.

Still have not been able to check pvc system either.

I may just try and source an ap sooner than later at this point, even though I wasn't planning to do any real upgrades to this car for another 6+months
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 Old 07-04-2018, 12:44 AM   #28
 
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Originally Posted by aeonpsych View Post
While I was putting intercooler back on, I noticed my intake air filter was coming apart on rear of the filter (side most under the intake piping, and closes to the hoses and connectors ran next to the engine). There was a decent opening there facing the front of the motor. I tested a theory I had seeing this, and it turns out to be accurate... While ac/rad fans are turned on and/or I am cruising at high enough mph, it is pushing air through that small gap, and causing air to push over the maf. Because of this, maf thinks I am getting more airflow than actual, thus causing the increase in rpm while coming to a stop/idling. The ac on is just having the front fans running, thus pushing their own air in.
So, in other words, there was a leak. See posts #2 and #7 . Try not to over complicate things with theories. Your problem would've been solved a week ago if you looked over your intake tract as recommended lol. Glad you found your issue, though.
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 Old 07-04-2018, 03:30 AM   #29
 
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Yea, I didn't think to check the filter, just the lines, pipes, and ductwork. It was the border of the filter, it was ripped, but not completely, so the ripped part of it would dangle, leaving a small, but decent sized gap. If the filter was attached a specific way, it would jam the ripped part of the filter in place making it not noticable and not causing any issues.
This is why I believe the car to started behaving normal again after messing with disconnecting and reconnecting the intake, and other hoses.

My theory was just that I seen the little open gap and theorized that is was this open gap causing the issues because extra air was being pushed in by the fans (ac on, thus causing the fan to run). I tested the theory by letting the car cost in neutral like this and it would cause the vacuum to jump around as well as the rpm. Sealed the gap and no more of the issues.

Now just need to figure out what is causing max 12 psi. I'm guessing its either between clogged cat, or bad ebcs.

Ohwell, car at least runs great for it's current purpose of being a DD, shouldn't be too concerned about the lack of 4 psi right now. Thanks for all the help here everyone, taking apart the intake and intercooler so much is what eventually got me to notice the ripped filter haha.
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 Old 07-04-2018, 07:32 AM   #30
 
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picture of that ripped filter ?

For your 12psi you must first check why you would have just 0.39% wg duty. I suspect the Mazdaspeed cellphone add-on not working well a bit more than a real 0% but even if you would have a straight exaust with brand new EBCS and lines, you won't get any boost above spring pressure unless you get some WG duty from the computer. This is the pulse ON ratio sent to open the EBCS to create a leak and decrease the pressure seen by the WG actuator to keep it closed further.
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 Old 07-04-2018, 01:38 PM   #31
 
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Unfortunately I don't. I replaced the filter with one that is a bit longer so it can rest on one of the hoses... It seemed to me that because I had no lower air box that the specific angle the intake was hooked up was sagging just enough that the top of the shifter mechanism was catching on that part of it. I also noticed while removing the filter that along the front side middle, the glue had deteriorated a bit to where it was noticably easier to detach. I wouldn't be surprised if it sagging a tiny bit off from the housing, causing a gap there as well. Again, I never fully checked the filter when I was going over everything, and I was doing most of the checks at night with a flash light, and then taking parts inside to inspect them under a lamp, cause fk the 112 degree desert heat.
Hopefully soon I will actually be able to get a real intake, and not be driving around on this temporary solution.

Yea, I mentioned concern of the seemingly bugged out readings for the wgdc, and possibly also kr. They both seemed to update normally for a while, and then just stuck on a static number. Not sure if this is an app issue, app plugin issue, obd2 adapter issue, or combination of either.
I did discover that the obd2 adapter was disconnecting by itself every once and a while, and then auto reconnecting a few seconds later while I was driving to work the next day, so I contacted the company and they said it is either a bad obd2 port or bad adapter. Since the adapter is still under warranty they are sending me a replacement to test.
I have a hunch that the obd2 adapter is causing the issues with the bugged reading with the plugin pids when it disconnects/reconnects, but since I can't get it to stay connected, I can't say for sure.

I don't know anyone locally that both has a mazdaspeed and an ap or vt that I can borrow, otherwise I would just to check the tune/datalogs with. Would even be nice way to check the ebcs, but heck, I'm not even sure I've seen another speed around town since owning mine.
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 Old 07-04-2018, 02:07 PM   #32
 
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the mazdaspeed add on need an ethernet connection once in a while to check for licencing and when it can't, all other data works but the speed specificif one don'T....maybe it is your case too.
This is 1 more thing why an AP is a lot better than this to troubleshoot
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