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 Old 03-16-2017, 11:04 PM   #1
 
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Default BNR S3, high boost/high WGDC and low air flow

So I'm trying to help a friend get his setup sorted out for a local event and then before he reaches out to a professional e-tuner.
He just got his BNR S3 and meth kit on and for some reason the boost we see from his BNR compared to the targeted load is pretty high for what I was expecting.

The setup is pretty much like this:
- custom TMIC;
- BNR S3;
- eBay catless downpipe;
- AEM meth kit spraying through a 500cc/min nozzle;
- HTP 3" intake;
- 3BAR MAP sensor;

I attached a 3rd-4th gear pull log, mind that the load targets are not hit even in the mid range (say 5000rpm).
The MAF cal was scaled down 5% to compensate for the meth spray and apart from slightly higher target load we don't have any major deviations from an OTS versatuner tune.

What can cause this significant strain on the turbo (both boost and WGDC) without seeing air flow values accordingly? We never had in mind 24PSI on this turbo, more like 21-22, but that's where it landed after targeting load values which are perfectly attainable o exceedable even on a stock K04 with similar flow mods.
Attached Images
File Type: gif load-targets-4th.gif (8.7 KB, 21 views)
Attached Files
File Type: csv 3MPS_BL-Data log - 2017-03-15 15.21.23.csv (17.5 KB, 8 views)
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 Old 03-17-2017, 10:08 AM   #2
 
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3bar map sensor, the map scalar tables need to be adjusted.
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 Old 03-17-2017, 06:50 PM   #3
 
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I found that running Meth messed up my cfm and loads, depending on how you scaled your MAF etc. I tried loading that run in Vdyno real quick, but couldn't get it to make sense. You might try that, but cutting it down to one gear.

I just made it so my AFRs were dialed in, my CFM is below 300 but Vdyno says I hit over 350 whp. I left it like this, because it was running well, etc

Run it thru Vd and see if the same is happening to you.
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 Old 03-18-2017, 05:53 AM   #4
 
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Originally Posted by tek_88 View Post
3bar map sensor, the map scalar tables need to be adjusted.
Ok, we'll try some new values next time, however the high WGDC and low air flow remains.
ALso when WGDC exceeds like 90% we start seeing KR at the same loads and BATs where previously we had clear runs, which makes me think that the turbo indeed works hard and all that air flowing through the turbo only (less than 10% goes around it through the wastegate) is the source of knock.

Originally Posted by sheston View Post
I just made it so my AFRs were dialed in, my CFM is below 300 but Vdyno says I hit over 350 whp. I left it like this, because it was running well, etc

Run it thru Vd and see if the same is happening to you.
Fortunately in this case all was consistent... We've seen the same cfm (well, g/s) before meth and after adding meth prior to scaling the MAF. And now the current runs are consistent with what we've seen before adding meth, just that the turbo seems to work very hard to get those. It did work hard before meth as well, but now when we tried to extract more load we had the unpleasant surprise to see that the numbers we've seen before were actually the limit of the whole setup as it was then and as is now.
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 Old 03-18-2017, 07:29 PM   #5
 
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Something blocking the exhaust or TMIC flow? Air straightener come loose?
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 Old 04-26-2017, 01:45 AM   #6
 
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So this is getting weirder.... The MAP scalars in the logging screen are correct, the g/s are still quite low from what we'd expect from this turbo.

A day ago or so I saw commanded AFRs in the stoich range while the actual AFRs were into the 9s, that in the middle of a WOT pull (begins at line 52 in the attached log).

The MAF g/s could be better especially high in the rev range at that boost (still around 22PSI).

From what I see the turbo (BNR S3) simply doesn't perform as it should, but it's hard to say frankly since I didn't encounter anything like this before.

Please let know what you guys think or what we should look at.
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 Old 04-26-2017, 04:19 AM   #7
 
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Originally Posted by mituc View Post
So this is getting weirder.... The MAP scalars in the logging screen are correct, the g/s are still quite low from what we'd expect from this turbo.

A day ago or so I saw commanded AFRs in the stoich range while the actual AFRs were into the 9s, that in the middle of a WOT pull (begins at line 52 in the attached log).

The MAF g/s could be better especially high in the rev range at that boost (still around 22PSI).
In regards to the rich AFR, Maybe the OL Fuel Trims are trying to command less fuel to compensate for the meth?

And in regards to the low g/s, maybe the meth is taking up space in the intake manifold which reduces space for air from the intake to fit. It's kind of like when the EGR kicks in on a diesel, The inert gases reduce the g/s reading from the Maf sensor because they take up space.

Maybe try turning the meth off, reduce timing, and then try a pull?

Edit; Nvm, just read that it was doing it even with it off.

Like @sheston; said, it sounds like a blockage, preventing exhaust from exiting. How does the PCV system look?
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 Old 04-26-2017, 06:14 AM   #8
 
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The oddest thing is why is it targeting stoich? Was that run with the meth turned off?

Try making a new maf curve without the meth
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 Old 04-26-2017, 06:37 AM   #9
 
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Originally Posted by Mazdazilla6 View Post
The oddest thing is why is it targeting stoich? Was that run with the meth turned off?

Try making a new maf curve without the meth
Yes, that's the weirdest thing that happened so far. The MAF cal is called down about 5-6% so even if it runs out of meth things will not go too bad.

The OL trims are disabled, they are in place up to load 1.06 or something, so I would normally not expect any adjustments but I guess some threshold was exceeded on something which lead to this behaviour. It's like one of those cases when because of boost creep the WGDC go to 0. In this case the AFRs went a bit richer so the system targeted stoich.

Running without meth usually results in a bit of knock sometimes. It happens also because the gas there has a lower octane than advertised but I also suspect that the restriction is on the exhaust somewhere, and because of the strain on the hot side of the turbo we get this knock. An exhaust restriction would explain a few things including the poor performance.
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 Old 04-26-2017, 01:45 PM   #10
 
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Thanks for your help guys. This is my car

OK so ill pull the exhaust off over the weekend and inspect the DP with an inspection cam and check the wastegate. The Ebay downpipe looks OK enough to flow but who knows. Also will check exhaust leaks if any.

I did change from my custom intercooler (3" core, stock end tanks) now to a CPE intercooler TMIC, as i thought maybe my custom one was reducing flow. The issues we are seeing have been pretty much from the start, i added meth to try fix the issue because we were getting knock as early as 8deg timing on pump.

The 98 octane/pump fuel shouldn't be an issue now as i am using a known quality 98 octane (93US i think?) which also has e10 (ethanol 10%) so it should be fine.
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 Old 04-26-2017, 03:45 PM   #11
 
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I'm somewhat skeptical of a restriction with a catless downpipe. It's also odd you're seeing knock with that low of timing. Something's not adding up.
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That knock may have been the original fueling i was using. Comparing old logs we found a major difference and i think their claimed "98" (93us) was actually 95 or 91 US which dropped the octane giving knock. Temperatures may have been slightly higher too. I don't go to that gas station anymore as the Gull 98 with e10 which i am using now and other use have had no issues with.
Although we are still having issues now so who knows.

I will also check the spark plugs, although i replaced them 4-5000kms ago NKG 1 step colder plugs, gapped to .26. Ill check the gap and how they look

It's just so frustrating, especially for Victor when it's potentially something simple causing the issues(well, hopefully) we just can't narrow down what it is. It's meaning countless hours logging and testing.
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 Old 04-26-2017, 04:14 PM   #13
 
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.26? Be sure they're .026-.028". It's pretty common that gets mixed up. Anyway I doubt that's your issue.
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