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 Old 05-19-2012, 09:58 PM   #1
 
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Default Car idles for 25 seconds then dies.

I have a really strange issue that I'm hoping someone has had before.

Today, I cleaned my intake valves, installed a JB TIG, EGR delete and did the TB coolant bypass mod, everything went great!

The car started up right away and idled fine, its we pretty smokey from all the B12 but that's to be expected. Much to my amazement there weren't any vacuum leaks, it was holding a steady -22 inHG which is normal for my car. I let it idle for about 5 min then shut it down and cleaned up my tools. The next time I started it up I started to back out of the shop and while doing so the car died. I started it back up and it ran fine, with normal vacuum then sure as shit it died again 25 seconds later.
When it dies it doesn't sputter, its just as if I tuned the key off. I check all the electrical and vacuum connections that I touched and everything was as it should be. Next, I started it up and held it at 2,000 RPM, and once again it died and I wasn't able to save it, bliping the throttle did nothing, it just shut down very smooth like. I started it back up to see what the fuel pressure was doing, on initial start up it settles to around 425 and holds there for about 15 second, then over the next 10 seconds it starts to fall and at around 100 PSI the engine dies. Knowing this I took it for a drive down the block to see if it would meet higher pressure demands, for the first 15 seconds after start up it acts as it should and builds the desired pressure, then the pressure falls like its at idle. After it dies a turn of the key and it fires right back up, no sputtering and normal fuel pressure, just like nothing happened.

I drove the car to my shop in the morning and it was running great, I really really don't think this is an issue with the HPFP, it has to be something electrical. The problems repeats itself in the exact same way each and every time as if it was on a timer, when I say 25 seconds, I mean EVERY TIME. Its like the engine says OK we're done here, good night.

When I did my HPFP a few months ago I had a similar issue, the car refused to stay running. I had to go away for work, so I left it sitting for a week and when I came home I started it up to troubleshoot it but it ran perfectly and has been doing so ever since. The only commonality between the work done today and when I did the HPFP is I pulled the FP relay and depressurized the system. (Yes I installed the relay and even swapped it for another one)

I'm really hoping this sound familiar to some!

Edit: no code.
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 Old 05-20-2012, 02:12 PM   #2
 
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Anyone?
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 Old 05-20-2012, 02:16 PM   #3
 
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sounds like a vacuum leak
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 Old 05-20-2012, 02:29 PM   #4
 
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@SPEED6 KILLAH

Try PM'ing him, he's your best bet.
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 Old 05-20-2012, 02:37 PM   #5
 
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Originally Posted by bova View Post
sounds like a vacuum leak
To me it sounds nothing like a vacuum leak.
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 Old 05-20-2012, 03:04 PM   #6
 
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Make sure the grommet on top of the intake manifold under the black box is fully seated correctly.
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 Old 05-20-2012, 03:08 PM   #7
 
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Originally Posted by mrmonk7663 View Post
Make sure the grommet on top of the intake manifold under the black box is fully seated correctly.
It is, made sure of it. I'm going to take a few logs and a video to show you guys exactly what I'm dealing with here.
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 Old 05-20-2012, 03:16 PM   #8
 
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It does sound like a large leak to me as well. What are your afrs when you start the car

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 Old 05-20-2012, 03:18 PM   #9
 
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What do your fuel trims look like when you start the car and right as it shuts off?

Inb4disnotplugthemanifoldwithegrdelete.
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 Old 05-20-2012, 05:06 PM   #10
 
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I'm going to get a video and a few logs later on.

Vacuum isn't the issue, it hold 21 - 22 inHG constantly which is 100% normal for my engine, and the engine runs smooth as can be.

The issue at this point is the drop in fuel pressure a few second after start up. It's almost like the feed pump stops supplying the CDFP with fuel. I can watch the "Actual HPFP" hold its normal idle pressure, between (420 and 431) then after a few seconds it drop into the low 400's, stays there for a few more seconds then rapidly drops, once it hits around 100 PSI the engine very calmly shut down just as if I were to turn the ignition off.



Originally Posted by Sid3wayS View Post
Inb4disnotplugthemanifoldwithegrdelete.
LOL, yeah wouldn't that be funny, but I can assure you the plug is in and sealed with a bit of thread sealant.
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 Old 05-20-2012, 08:15 PM   #11
 
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Clogged intank filter perhaps?
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 Old 05-20-2012, 10:19 PM   #12
 
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Ok boys, here's a log of whats going on. I've also taken a video however, the internet is slow tonight so I'll post it when its done uploading.
Attached Files
File Type: csv datalog6.csv (19.9 KB, 29 views)
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 Old 05-20-2012, 10:20 PM   #13
 
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subbed for interest.
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 Old 05-20-2012, 10:24 PM   #14
 
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Intank pump close to fully clogged, intank pump taking a shit, rail valve completely failed not letting pressure build up...guesses off the top of my head.
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 Old 05-20-2012, 10:57 PM   #15
 
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Originally Posted by mrmonk7663 View Post
Intank pump close to fully clogged, intank pump taking a shit, rail valve completely failed not letting pressure build up...guesses off the top of my head.
My thoughts also lie with the in tank pump, but more along the electrical side of things. I drove my car to my shop and it ran perfectly fine, the fuel pressure was on target.

Here is a list of everything I did between a running car and a broken car.

- Pulled the "circuit" relay, started the car and let it die (fuel system depressurized)
- Pulled the intake manifold.
- Completed the TB coolant bypass mod and EGR delete.
- Pulled the spark plugs and pressurized each cylinder with 30 PSI of air while cleaning the intake valves (one Cyl at a time) I also turn the engine over pneumatically so I could switch what intake valves were open.
- I then reinstalled the manifold with a JBR TIG and reassembled everything else.
- With the spark plugs still out I turned the engine over for about 5 seconds using the starter to clear the cylinders of any cleaner, carbon, or crushed walnuts that might have got in during the valve cleaning. This is the reason I depressurized the fuel system earlier in the day.
- I reinstalled the spark plugs and the "circuit" relay primed the pump, as I said in the OP the car started right up and idled great for about 5 min at which point I shut it down.


Then I cleaned up my tools, stared the car and backed it out of the bay just as I was about to start moving forward it died, I restarted it and pulled it into a parking spot and it once again died. Ever since then its been acting the same way. Cold starts it idles for a few min with normal idle fuel pressure then just like that the FP starts to dive and it a span of 10 second it dies. Warm start it idles for about 10-15 second, then the fuel pressure drops and it dies. All it takes to get the engine running again is a turn of the key.

Because the battery had to be disconnected the fuel trims were lost so they're reading 0 right now, and my MAF cal really needed some attention in the 0-5.7 range so the A/F is off but not enough to be worried about. I don't see the 2 situations be related.

Fucking video is still uploading, I guess I should have compressed it. I'll post the link below, but it won't be available for an hour or so.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gqmto...ature=youtu.be
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 Old 05-21-2012, 12:10 PM   #16
 
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Someone was nice enough to send me this link
Mazdaspeed 6 Keeps Dieing - Page 3
thoughts.
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 Old 05-23-2012, 08:41 PM   #17
 
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Buler?
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 Old 05-23-2012, 09:02 PM   #18
 
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Looking at the video it shuts off at itfp pressure. It's almost like your cdfp is shutting off after it begins to settle. It's a long shot but maybe when you went to depresurize the lines something in the pump gave out. I would pull the cdfp and take a look make sure it's in 1 piece still.

Edit: actualy before you do that turn the key to acc(car on engine off) and look at actual fp. It should slowly rise.
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 Old 05-23-2012, 09:15 PM   #19
 
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Originally Posted by Sid3wayS View Post
Looking at the video it shuts off at itfp pressure. It's almost like your cdfp is shutting off after it begins to settle. It's a long shot but maybe when you went to depresurize the lines something in the pump gave out. I would pull the cdfp and take a look make sure it's in 1 piece still.

Edit: actualy before you do that turn the key to acc(car on engine off) and look at actual fp. It should slowly rise.
I dunno, its kind of hard to believe its the CDFP, when its cold it runs for about 5 min and I can take it out for a drive and it hits all the pressure targets. I didn't want to push it too hard when it was cold, but it took it into boost and once again it ran perfect with bang on FP.
I'm going to test the lift pump tomorrow and see if its cutting out before it dies. That's still my number one theroy, but even if it is I have no idea why. If it is, I guess the easiest thing to do would be to build a independent circuit and run the lift pump off that. But it would really piss me off to have to do that, I really want to know what the issue is here!
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 Old 05-23-2012, 09:31 PM   #20
 
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Originally Posted by Blackrider View Post
I dunno, its kind of hard to believe its the CDFP, when its cold it runs for about 5 min and I can take it out for a drive and it hits all the pressure targets. I didn't want to push it too hard when it was cold, but it took it into boost and once again it ran perfect with bang on FP.
I'm going to test the lift pump tomorrow and see if its cutting out before it dies. That's still my number one theroy, but even if it is I have no idea why. If it is, I guess the easiest thing to do would be to build a independent circuit and run the lift pump off that. But it would really piss me off to have to do that, I really want to know what the issue is here!

Ohhh so everytime it's cold the car starts up fine and runs but it bogs out after it is fully warmed up. I didn't understand it that way. Well damn that's a whole nother thing then.
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 Old 05-23-2012, 09:45 PM   #21
 
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Originally Posted by Sid3wayS View Post
Ohhh so everytime it's cold the car starts up fine and runs but it bogs out after it is fully warmed up. I didn't understand it that way. Well damn that's a whole nother thing then.
Yeah, the video was warm starts. Even in the 20 or 25 seconds its running during a warm startup it drives fine until the pressure starts to fall.
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 Old 05-23-2012, 10:05 PM   #22
 
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Well I would still try the fp test I explained earlier could be your rail or relief valve. Unless you constantly pump shyt gas i haz a hard time believing the itfp is FUBAR or clogged. And even if it was it wouldn't just cause issues when warmed up. I may be mistaken but that pump has a continuous pressure and what is constantly changing is the cdfp and everything after it.
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 Old 05-23-2012, 10:21 PM   #23
 
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Originally Posted by Sid3wayS View Post
Well I would still try the fp test I explained earlier could be your rail or relief valve. Unless you constantly pump shyt gas i haz a hard time believing the itfp is FUBAR or clogged. And even if it was it wouldn't just cause issues when warmed up. I may be mistaken but that pump has a continuous pressure and what is constantly changing is the cdfp and everything after it.
Mechanically speaking I don't think anything is wrong with the ITFP I'm thinking more electrical. Ill definitely try your test and see what goes on. Ill report back in tomorrow night after I've had a chance to work on it and study some wiring diagrams.
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 Old 05-24-2012, 11:45 PM   #24
 
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Alright, good news! I found the reason why I've been having this problem.

MazdaSpeed 3 in tank fuel pump issue - YouTube

@ovillems3 @Sid3wayS
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 Old 05-25-2012, 01:04 AM   #25
 
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damn dude, that sucks. good luck.
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 Old 05-25-2012, 04:05 AM   #26
 
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Wow! Never heard of that. Great sleuthing, I never would have found that.

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 Old 05-25-2012, 05:30 AM   #27
 
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Damnnnnnnnn what are the chances of that. Well atleast your half way there now. Rest is just going backwards from the relay to find the failure. Goodluck buddy.
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 Old 05-25-2012, 10:18 AM   #28
 
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Great job...i'm glad you found this out!!!
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 Old 05-25-2012, 03:50 PM   #29
 
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Thanks guys! My guess is the connector was damaged when I pulled the relay before starting work last Saturday. Now I just need to haul my hung over ass out of bed tomorrow morning and put the fix on this thing!
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 Old 05-26-2012, 06:42 PM   #30
 
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After looking at the wiring diagrams I determined that the bad connection could only be in one small section, unfortunately its all but impossible to get to. I would have had remove about 150 or so wires from the fuse box to get to it and not only would that take a long ass time, it might just cause more issues. So I just used a little jumper wire to feed power from the "Fuel Pump / 2 relay" to the "circuit" relay and everything is working as it should be.

Thanks to everyone for their ideas!

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 Old 05-29-2012, 09:35 AM   #31
 
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My car is having a similar issue. Mazda Canada is telling me the car is unrepairable. It keeps throwing the "too rich at idle" code. On a cold engine the idle is fine but when at operating temperature when idling it's gurgly with a rough idle. Could this be my issue as well? Around 8000 dollars have been thrown at this problem so far and I'm getting frustrated since I haven't really been able to drive the car since I bought it. It hesitates from a standing start as well. Car is completely stock and every part has been repleced that has anything to do with the code for the most part.
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 Old 05-29-2012, 12:30 PM   #32
 
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Originally Posted by CW42 View Post
My car is having a similar issue. Mazda Canada is telling me the car is unrepairable. It keeps throwing the "too rich at idle" code. On a cold engine the idle is fine but when at operating temperature when idling it's gurgly with a rough idle. Could this be my issue as well? Around 8000 dollars have been thrown at this problem so far and I'm getting frustrated since I haven't really been able to drive the car since I bought it. It hesitates from a standing start as well. Car is completely stock and every part has been repleced that has anything to do with the code for the most part.

unrepairable? that doesn't even make sense. everything is repairable, it's just a matter of "is it worth the expense?"

but if you bought it and it immediately started having the problem, does that mean you've paid $8000 out of pocket? or that's about what they've spent in labor trying to fix it?
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 Old 06-03-2012, 08:15 PM   #33
 
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I actually spent about 2500. Luckily there is still some warranty left on certain things. I find it irritating that when they misdiagnose a problem and the repair doesn't work, you STILL have to pay for their mistake. The place I work for would be out of business if we did that to people. I think the issue may be fixed. They said that the mechanic made a mistake when repairing the car and lots of gas was mixed with the oil. I didn't notice it because the car's oil is supposed to smell like gas. The details of the whole thing seem strange but whatever they did this time seems to have given me all my power back so maybe it's finally fixed. Not sure how that could cause the cell though.
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 Old 06-14-2012, 10:02 AM   #34
 
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Just set this account up today because my 2010 Speed3 is doing the same thing. It started happening June 1st. I drove it no problem that day, about 30 miles on the interstate. Then around town for the rest of the day. I was leaving dinner that night, cranked it up, it ran for a few seconds and then died. It did that a few times in the parking lot, it would run for a bit and then just switch off nice and clean. Eventually it wore the battery down so I pushed it down a hill and popped the clutch. It started up, but as soon as I tried hitting the throttle and then shifting to second, it died again. It's been at the shop for a week and a half and they don't have a clue what's wrong with it. I'm having it towed to the Mazda dealership today. Sucks.
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 Old 06-14-2012, 04:39 PM   #35
 
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Originally Posted by FastCash View Post
Just set this account up today because my 2010 Speed3 is doing the same thing. It started happening June 1st. I drove it no problem that day, about 30 miles on the interstate. Then around town for the rest of the day. I was leaving dinner that night, cranked it up, it ran for a few seconds and then died. It did that a few times in the parking lot, it would run for a bit and then just switch off nice and clean. Eventually it wore the battery down so I pushed it down a hill and popped the clutch. It started up, but as soon as I tried hitting the throttle and then shifting to second, it died again. It's been at the shop for a week and a half and they don't have a clue what's wrong with it. I'm having it towed to the Mazda dealership today. Sucks.
Check to make sure the "circuit" relay is getting power, if not check all the wires between the relay and the fuel pump resistor. I ended up finding a broken wire on the connector the the fuel pump resistor, now that that's fixed I don't need my jumper wire anymore.
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 Old 06-26-2012, 03:18 AM   #36
 
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Subbed!

Have similar problems, except for my car doesn't start. So far have no ability to isnpect all the wires, but this picture helped me to udnerstand the directions where to move. Looks like I have to dial left relay, the start-up one. 30V resistor looks fine.
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 Old 11-27-2013, 08:39 PM   #37
 
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@aviator79;

Not much time to look but when I did I found this thread for MS3 in tank fuel pump. Does the MS6 have one ? I'm assuming so.
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 Old 11-27-2013, 09:59 PM   #38
 
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well guess could pull rear seat bottom and listen for fuel pump. Im thinking it is something else as HPFP had good pressure but will look into it. But a lot of the description is very similar especially how it just shuts down as if ECU says im not happy time to turn engine off. But other things make me think it is a different issue same symptoms. We will see. I will figure it out. Go to bed.
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 Old 01-06-2014, 04:24 PM   #39
 
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Holy shit. So my car hasn't run for a good 3 weeks now and I think I may have this issue as well. I'll take it from the top:

Installed KMD Internals, started car up and it ran until it was warm, then died. Started it again. Ran for maybe 15-20 seconds and died again. Now that I read this, I'm starting to notice this was the pattern every time. I've tested the spill valve for operation, replaced the PRV, replaced stock internals. Still the same scenerio every time. Checked the ground on the HPFP. That is secure. I sent my pump out to KMD to get tested and they were unable to hook it up to their machine, so I'll be getting it back UPS tomorrow. Going to check this tonight. So it was just the 12V C? And you just jumped it from FP2 to FP Constant?
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 Old 01-06-2014, 05:38 PM   #40
 
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My issue turned out to be the in tank fuel pump being unplugged. The connector is under the air box.
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