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 Old 05-23-2012, 06:28 PM   #1
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Default High Idle

Ok, tired of searching the troubleshooting section. Could not find the same problem I have.

There are no MILs with this problem.

Car responds to throttle inputs just fine. On deceleration the car sometimes won't cut fuel and will aim to maintain a 14.7 AFR and there is no engine brake. Idle talbes in ATR are all at 875 rpm and no changes in maps affecting idle stability have been made.

Now the car idles at 2.5K to 3.0K rpm and won't come down in the revs. On previous occasions the car would all by itself rise the idle to 1.5k Rpm or so and then after a few seconds it would come down again. Now it just stays up there. Also today right after start up, car started idling in waves. I.e it swanked between 1500 and 2000 rpm or so on a continuous basis.

Things I've done.

1. Checked for vacuum leaks on all lines going into the IM. Purge line line, brake booster and BPV. After that I plugged all lines one by one while idling to make sure none of the components needing a vacuum were faulty letting air into the IM. So I am sure there are no leaks in the IM
2. Replaced purge valve
3. Installed an IM with the VTCS intact as opposed to my normal one which has it deleted.
4. Double checked everything in the IM to make sure there are no leaks.
5. Boost leak test.

Here are two logs. One with the erratic idle and one with the high idle. Notice the very low timing advance on the erratic one.

Idle problem.xls

Idle2.xls
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 Old 05-23-2012, 06:58 PM   #2
 
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What's the coolant temp sensor doing when the idle goes stupid? It's not in either of those logs..
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 Old 05-23-2012, 08:26 PM   #3
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Steady at 182. Checked several times with AP.
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 Old 05-23-2012, 08:37 PM   #4
 
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check the conector on the front of the tranny. I had this same issue. The wire that sits by the slave cylinder was cut. Sodered it back together and the problem was fixed.

I belive its the idle sensor.
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 Old 05-23-2012, 08:47 PM   #5
 
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I'd check all the ground points under the hood... I can post the ground distribution diagrams tomorrow if you need them..

Originally Posted by Boosten Ya(josh) View Post
check the conector on the front of the tranny. I had this same issue. The wire that sits by the slave cylinder was cut. Sodered it back together and the problem was fixed.

I belive its the idle sensor.
There is no idle sensor. But it can't hurt to look for damaged wiring...
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 Old 05-23-2012, 09:00 PM   #6
 
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well not the sensor but it has to do with the idle.....idle control something or other.
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 Old 05-23-2012, 09:06 PM   #7
 
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I say clean your throttle body its most likey all gumed up, clean the inside! Theres how to's on here, im pretty sure it should help you out even if its not the problem. Mine did what your saying for like 2 days then it got really bad a stalled on me a few times. Cleaned it never had a problem sense.
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 Old 05-23-2012, 10:16 PM   #8
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Negative on TB. That's clean.

Will check wires by transmission and grounds tomorrow. If I can't see anything obviously wrong there I'll hit you up for those diagrams SS. Thanks.
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 Old 05-23-2012, 10:34 PM   #9
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May just be a bad TB (like a bad tps back in the day when they were seperate) ,ECU thinks throttle is closed but its not? Anyone local you could swap with?
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 Old 05-23-2012, 11:13 PM   #10
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I actually have 2 tb's and have switched them both. I am 100% its not TB related.
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 Old 05-23-2012, 11:19 PM   #11
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Tomas, in 1 log your accel pedal position jumps up - is that you touching it? In the second log when the idle is stable at 2500 the pedal position is 0%.

Could it be an issue with the pedal position sensor?
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 Old 05-24-2012, 06:36 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by Lex View Post
Tomas, in 1 log your accel pedal position jumps up - is that you touching it? In the second log when the idle is stable at 2500 the pedal position is 0%.

Could it be an issue with the pedal position sensor?
Yup. That's me tipping the throttle to get the idle to swank on the the log. The engine idle will fall and rise for a few seconds and then it will settle at the high rpm. Tip in the throtle, and it will again rise and fall afterward for a few seconds and then settle at high revs.

I will check the cables and connection down by the pedal just in case but I am pretty sure that's all ok.
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 Old 05-24-2012, 07:18 AM   #13
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Tomas, have you changed your map @ all since we gained the ability to scale the load axis in ATR?
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 Old 05-24-2012, 08:27 AM   #14
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Have you checked the PCV and EGR (if still installed)?
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 Old 05-24-2012, 02:19 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by rfinkle2 View Post
Tomas, have you changed your map @ all since we gained the ability to scale the load axis in ATR?
You mean an upgraded MAP sensor? Yes. I have a 3 bar bosch map sensor installed.
You think a somewhat disproportionate scalling could cause this?


Originally Posted by Lex View Post
Have you checked the PCV and EGR (if still installed)?
EGR is blocked of and the pipe in the IM is sealed tight.
Checked PCV valve as well when I changed the IM and everything was fine.

Wouldn't you see a large change in STFT and LTFTs if there was a large discrepancy between MAF reading and AFR?
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 Old 05-24-2012, 02:24 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Tomas View Post
You mean an upgraded MAP sensor? Yes. I have a 3 bar bosch map sensor installed.
You think a somewhat disproportionate scalling could cause this?




EGR is blocked of and the pipe in the IM is sealed tight.
Checked PCV valve as well when I changed the IM and everything was fine.

Wouldn't you see a large change in STFT and LTFTs if there was a large discrepancy between MAF reading and AFR?
Much less fancy actually. The newest version of ATR allows the end user to manually change the load axis on both the fueling and ignition tables and I'm a little sketched out by them so far.

Not that they don't work correctly, but there is a ton more opportunity to make a mistake now.

Idle is dependant on a table / input that we don't have access to that is referenced by load (or @ least I believe it to be) and a few idle issues have coincidentally popped up since the new scalable load tables have been released.

Checking to be sure all ignition axis are the same on your map may blow me right out of the water here.
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 Old 05-24-2012, 04:08 PM   #17
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Naw. Haven't downloaded the latest ATR yet.

It's definitely something electrical. Just started up the car again. It will idle at about 2K rpm with timing at -7 deg as per AP which I guess causes it to only create about 10HG of vacuum. It has to be something wrong with either a sensor or cables.

Going to take a look at things right now.
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 Old 05-24-2012, 04:09 PM   #18
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I'm really interested to see what the hell is going on with your car. I hope you find it Tomas. Rootin' for you man. LOL
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 Old 05-24-2012, 05:18 PM   #19
 
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my car does this exact thing when i switch from a load based map that i always run to a boost based map. with no other changes to a map one beta version of atr wouldnt let me choose between load and boost based tuning as well, however the latest version does not have that bug. have you changed anything ive mentioned recently?
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 Old 05-24-2012, 06:34 PM   #20
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Problem seems to be fixed. For now at least. Unfortunately I can't say 100% what the cause was.

I started by ungrounding all the silly things on the car. Meth, meth tank floater, GA, boost light, etc. Started the car. No improvement. Then I started looking for bad connections and plugs. Just visually. Unplugged and plugged back the fuel pump, purge valve, throttle body and a few other things. Started the car again. Still bad.

Next I took out the cam position sensor and cleaned it. There was some sort of white residue on it from who the hell knows what. May be from the ZDDP I've been using or some sort of silicone residue? No idea. At the same time I unplugged both wiring harnesses from the ECU and plugged them back in. Started the car problem was gone. Idled perfect.

So symptoms:

-7 degrees of timing displayed on AP and only about 8-10 HGs of vacuum at 2k rpm idle with accel pedal completely depressed. At random engine would start rising and lowering idle rpms and timing would go between -7 deg and 12. AFRs would in the same manner swing between commanded 14.7 AFR and 29.8 which is the same as when you would lift of the throttle and the injectors stop firing.

Possible cause dirty CMPS 80% probability.
Wiring harness bad connection 20%.
At least the way I look at it.

We'll see if the problem comes back.

Thanks for everyone's help.


EDIT - FAIL
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 Old 05-25-2012, 04:41 PM   #21
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Problem persists.

It appears every time I flash a new map or disconect the battery the problem will go away and after 20 miles or so of driving it will come back. Now I am sort of leaning toward an ECu problem or something related to ATR.

Will give a load based map a try to see if it that might be the issue as Chuck Norris here suggests.

Originally Posted by chuckms6 View Post
my car does this exact thing when i switch from a load based map that i always run to a boost based map. with no other changes to a map one beta version of atr wouldnt let me choose between load and boost based tuning as well, however the latest version does not have that bug. have you changed anything ive mentioned recently?
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 Old 05-26-2012, 05:57 PM   #22
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Fuckin A.
Chuck was right. Problem goes away switching to a load based map.
Might have something to do with the offset of the 3 bar map sensor. I have it a 8. something and vacuum is off by a few HG's. Will try 5.44 offset on a boost map and see if that fixes it.

Thanks again.
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 Old 05-26-2012, 08:53 PM   #23

 
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Yeah, 8 seems a little high, I am right around 5.44. Did you ever zero it out with the key on, engine off?
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 Old 05-26-2012, 10:43 PM   #24
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At KOEO it shows -2 KPA which is not that far off so I never bothered. At idle vacuum is where I get a large discrepancy. AP say around -68 KPA and boost gauge 18 HG which I measured today. Don't remember exactly what that comes out to but I calculated it and there was about 8 KPA difference.
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 Old 09-07-2012, 11:34 AM   #25
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Sorry to wake this thread up but i'm seeing a couple people with high idle problems on cold start's. Was there any resolution to this problem?

@sassyspeed3 2007 MS3 MBC BT Load Tune
@BlueDmnSpeed 2010 MS3 EBC K04 Boost Tune

My only theory at this point is the IGN BAT vs ECT Comp. % Used table. At low loads there is an increased timing region between 1500 and 3000 rpm. The older OTS maps didn't have this increased region...
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 Old 09-07-2012, 12:33 PM   #26
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Well, my problem was not tuning related. It had to do with the blade stops on a bored throttle body.
My car will also without any science behind it sometimes idle high right after cranking and sometimes it will go almost straight to standard idle rpm. I do not believe it is temperature related but meh, got other things to figure out before this.
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 Old 09-07-2012, 01:26 PM   #27
 
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i haz a video of this..will upload as soon as i get home.
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 Old 09-07-2012, 02:45 PM   #28
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In for high throttle porn.
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 Old 09-07-2012, 04:16 PM   #29

 
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I have now developed a strange "cold" start issue. I put it in quotes because its hot as fuck out so there is really no such thing as a cold start. I am going to catch a vid in a bit once it has set for a couple hours. Its not a high idle, just seems like the car is hardly catching.

I have made no tune or hardware changes since it started
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 Old 09-07-2012, 05:27 PM   #30
 
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subbed for solution. as @RichieRichness stated i am seeing this. although my car only does it first thing in the morning or if the car has been sitting for more than 4hrs. but it only idle's to about 2200-2300 rpms.
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 Old 09-08-2012, 11:13 PM   #31
 
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGlD...e_gdata_player


Here is my cold start. I was trying to catch a funny sound that mike was hearing but no luck. Anyways..I've seen the cold start as high as 2500.
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 Old 09-09-2012, 05:45 AM   #32
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^ that vid is private.
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 Old 09-09-2012, 08:21 PM   #33
 
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Originally Posted by Tomas View Post
^ that vid is private.
Please try again! Sorry about that.

Like I said before, I've seen it as high as 2500-2600rpms.

Thanks
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 Old 09-09-2012, 11:04 PM   #34
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I have the exact same thing happen sometimes at start up. No idea what;s causing it. Sometimes it happens sometimes it doesn't.
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 Old 09-12-2012, 08:19 AM   #35
 
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Originally Posted by Tomas View Post
I have the exact same thing happen sometimes at start up. No idea what;s causing it. Sometimes it happens sometimes it doesn't.
Mine is happening every cold start. I've checked everything and am still at a loss...any ideas?
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 Old 09-12-2012, 10:33 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by RichieRichness View Post
Sorry to wake this thread up but i'm seeing a couple people with high idle problems on cold start's. Was there any resolution to this problem?

@sassyspeed3 2007 MS3 MBC BT Load Tune
@BlueDmnSpeed 2010 MS3 EBC K04 Boost Tune

My only theory at this point is the IGN BAT vs ECT Comp. % Used table. At low loads there is an increased timing region between 1500 and 3000 rpm. The older OTS maps didn't have this increased region...
Originally Posted by sassyspeed3 View Post
Mine is happening every cold start. I've checked everything and am still at a loss...any ideas?
Yeah this sucks. I tested my theory of smoothing out the IGN BAT vs ECT Comp. % Used table on your last revision. I guess that didn't work tho... Next thing we could try and lowering your throttle RPM vs. ECT tables.
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 Old 09-12-2012, 10:45 AM   #37
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I am thinking it could also have something to do with the EGR delete. Anyone with EGR intact having this problem?

Originally Posted by RichieRichness View Post
Next thing we could try and lowering your throttle RPM vs. ECT tables.
Tried that. Results negative.
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 Old 09-12-2012, 11:23 AM   #38
 
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Originally Posted by Tomas View Post
I am thinking it could also have something to do with the EGR delete. Anyone with EGR intact having this problem?



Tried that. Results negative.
Mine is intact.
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 Old 09-12-2012, 12:06 PM   #39
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So it's either a throttle or timing issue in cold temps....ugh

Do you both have TB coolant bypass?
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 Old 09-12-2012, 02:21 PM   #40
 
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Originally Posted by RichieRichness View Post
So it's either a throttle or timing issue in cold temps....ugh

Do you both have TB coolant bypass?
I do not.
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