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MazdaSpeed 3/6 - Troubleshoot/Diagnostics MazdaSpeed 3/6 - Troubleshoot/Diagnostics - Have a problem with the car? CEL Code? Want to discuss other issues? Come on in!


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 Old 05-15-2018, 05:40 PM   #1
 
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Default Knock under WOT

Hey guys,

I was hoping for some help with KR during WOT. My buddy has a 2012 speed, mods are CS intake/inlet pipe, CS bpv, res delete, and accessport running stage 1. He's getting pretty bad WOT knock at times, no clue what could be causing it. His compression checked out all good. Here are a few logs. Maybe some of you knowledgeable folks can help out.

datalog3.csv

datalog4.csv
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 Old 05-16-2018, 11:38 AM   #2
 
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A lot of threads already on diagnosing KR.
Read them and come back later.
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 Old 05-16-2018, 03:47 PM   #3
 
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Originally Posted by Fstrnyou View Post
A lot of threads already on diagnosing KR.
Read them and come back later.
Expected that response. It started out of no where, right before he was about to buy full bolt ons, so we were hoping someone would be able to quickly look at the logs and see something that we're too dumb to notice. But thank you, he and I will continue reading.
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 Old 05-16-2018, 03:55 PM   #4
 
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Is there E85 in your area?
That's textbook first thing to try if there's unexplainable KR. Confirm that it's actual knock before you go on a rabbit hunt.
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 Old 05-16-2018, 05:32 PM   #5
 
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Originally Posted by Fstrnyou View Post
Is there E85 in your area?
That's textbook first thing to try if there's unexplainable KR. Confirm that it's actual knock before you go on a rabbit hunt.
Did you see those AFR values in boost? They're ~13.5:1 at 14psi...yikes.

Originally Posted by alden View Post
Hey guys,

I was hoping for some help with KR during WOT. My buddy has a 2012 speed, mods are CS intake/inlet pipe, CS bpv, res delete, and accessport running stage 1. He's getting pretty bad WOT knock at times, no clue what could be causing it. His compression checked out all good. Here are a few logs. Maybe some of you knowledgeable folks can help out.

Attachment 235775

Attachment 235776
The first thing I'd check is the vacuum hose going from EBCS to inlet pipe, I had mine pop off and give me crazy knock like that due to unmetered air being let in. Something is causing it to run rather lean at WOT, like I say more than likely you've got a leak somewhere between the MAF and turbo inlet.
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Last edited by MoMS3; 05-16-2018 at 05:32 PM. Reason: MSF Database - Automerged Doublepost
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 Old 05-16-2018, 06:35 PM   #6
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+20 LTFT, surprised there's no CEL for running lean, maybe your TIP is real loose on the turbo. 13.5afr @ wot is really bad news, stop beating on it and fix your afr
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 Old 05-16-2018, 08:31 PM   #7
 
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Originally Posted by Fstrnyou View Post
Is there E85 in your area?
That's textbook first thing to try if there's unexplainable KR. Confirm that it's actual knock before you go on a rabbit hunt.
No E85 unfortunately However, we have tried multiple gas stations and all giving the same result.

Originally Posted by MoMS3 View Post
Did you see those AFR values in boost? They're ~13.5:1 at 14psi...yikes.



The first thing I'd check is the vacuum hose going from EBCS to inlet pipe, I had mine pop off and give me crazy knock like that due to unmetered air being let in. Something is causing it to run rather lean at WOT, like I say more than likely you've got a leak somewhere between the MAF and turbo inlet.
We will check that this weekend, thank you!!

Originally Posted by Pu Manchu View Post
+20 LTFT, surprised there's no CEL for running lean, maybe your TIP is real loose on the turbo. 13.5afr @ wot is really bad news, stop beating on it and fix your afr
No CEL for running lean, just for the EGR, we just installed the EGR delete kit from Damond. During the install we made sure the TIP was tight on the turbo, but we'll double check that!

Thank you guys for the replies! I'll check back in Friday or Saturday and see if any of this has solved the problem. This forum rules.

Last edited by alden; 05-16-2018 at 08:31 PM. Reason: MSF Database - Automerged Doublepost
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 Old 05-16-2018, 09:04 PM   #8
 
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My bad. I can't read the logs on my phone.
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Versatuner, 3-bar MAP, ITV22, CP-e TMIC
CS Turbo/DP/RP/HPFP/BPV/R-DiffMount
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2004 Olds Alero ECOtec 2.2 - Broken (since Christmas 2015 and I really need to get rid of it)
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2008 GSX-R 1000 - Stolen (With several runs past 180, I'd probably be dead by now if it wasn't stolen. So in a way, I'm thankful.)
1988 RX-7 TII - Sold (Megasquirt, streetport, filter-on-turbo SRI, custom TBE, 20psi boost creep on OE turbo, OE TMIC on ice, 13.467 @ 105.44)
1985 Camaro - Sold (est. 265bhp 5.7 swap, Edelbrock intake & Hooker headers)
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 Old 05-17-2018, 01:41 AM   #9
 
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Originally Posted by Fstrnyou View Post
My bad. I can't read the logs on my phone.
No worries man, any and all help is greatly appreciated!
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 Old 05-17-2018, 06:09 AM   #10
 
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a pre-turbo leak or something wrong with the maf hosing or Maf cal ?

I don't have much references for a k04 but is 160-170g/s for 15-16 psi to be a correct and expected result for the stage 1 map ? It seem a bit low like if the maf isn't reading enough???
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 Old 05-17-2018, 06:28 AM   #11
 
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Check the egr delete plug in the manifold. What size is that cs intake?
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 Old 05-17-2018, 08:38 AM   #12
 
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Originally Posted by 5doorsoffury View Post
Check the egr delete plug in the manifold. What size is that cs intake?
yeah, i did the mistake of installing a plastic plug that came loose after few heat cycle...but in my case i did see it because my AFR was rich instead of lean.
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Originally Posted by Jeff23spl View Post
a pre-turbo leak or something wrong with the maf hosing or Maf cal ?

I don't have much references for a k04 but is 160-170g/s for 15-16 psi to be a correct and expected result for the stage 1 map ? It seem a bit low like if the maf isn't reading enough???
Seconded.

g/s should top out in the mid 200's at those pressures on the k04.
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CS Turbo/DP/RP/HPFP/BPV/R-DiffMount
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1988 RX-7 TII - Sold (Megasquirt, streetport, filter-on-turbo SRI, custom TBE, 20psi boost creep on OE turbo, OE TMIC on ice, 13.467 @ 105.44)
1985 Camaro - Sold (est. 265bhp 5.7 swap, Edelbrock intake & Hooker headers)
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 Old 05-21-2018, 12:01 PM   #14
 
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Originally Posted by 5doorsoffury View Post
Check the egr delete plug in the manifold. What size is that cs intake?
we'll check the EGR plug today, and the CS intake is the stock size I believe. It's their stage 2 power series SRI/TIP.
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 Old 05-21-2018, 12:46 PM   #15
 
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Double check your MAFCAL tables. Something sounds screwy. I know you haven't touched them, but check anyways. Compare them to stock values.

As mentioned, lean at part throttle and WOT is typ a leak between MAF and turbo...or a screwed up MAFCAL.

What type of catch can set up do you have?
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CS Turbo/DP/RP/HPFP/BPV/R-DiffMount
White Widow F-DiffMount, Whiteline RSB
Rear Russian Bushings, Poly FSB Bushings Magnaflow CBE, ACT 6-puck/Streetlite
JBR Tru-3.5/3-port EBCS/EGR-D
Damond RMM/PMM/OCC/PCV Plate
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2002 Tacoma ExtCab 2.4L 5spd 2WD - 355k mile Speed support vehicle.
2004 Olds Alero ECOtec 2.2 - Broken (since Christmas 2015 and I really need to get rid of it)
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2008 GSX-R 1000 - Stolen (With several runs past 180, I'd probably be dead by now if it wasn't stolen. So in a way, I'm thankful.)
1988 RX-7 TII - Sold (Megasquirt, streetport, filter-on-turbo SRI, custom TBE, 20psi boost creep on OE turbo, OE TMIC on ice, 13.467 @ 105.44)
1985 Camaro - Sold (est. 265bhp 5.7 swap, Edelbrock intake & Hooker headers)
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 Old 05-21-2018, 01:28 PM   #16
 
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Originally Posted by alden View Post
we'll check the EGR plug today, and the CS intake is the stock size I believe. It's their stage 2 power series SRI/TIP.
Well tbh i would do a boost leak check at this point from the filter location to determin if you have a leak.
How to DIY Boost Leak Tester make that. Do the test and spray soapy water everywhere looking for bubbles. Then in 10 mins you will solve the problem. You will either have a leak or not. If there is no leak then there is the wrong tune loaded up since you are wayyyy off targets.
Once you determin there is no leaks then it is as simple as doing a maf cal.
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 Old 05-21-2018, 02:12 PM   #17
 
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Originally Posted by Fstrnyou View Post
Seconded.

g/s should top out in the mid 200's at those pressures on the k04.
So given that its not reading enough, would swapping out my MAF into his car rule out that issue? Or does that not work? Should we recalibrate his MAF? It seems odd that it would all of a sudden fall out of calibration, no?

Originally Posted by 5doorsoffury View Post
Well tbh i would do a boost leak check at this point from the filter location to determin if you have a leak.
How to DIY Boost Leak Tester make that. Do the test and spray soapy water everywhere looking for bubbles. Then in 10 mins you will solve the problem. You will either have a leak or not. If there is no leak then there is the wrong tune loaded up since you are wayyyy off targets.
Once you determin there is no leaks then it is as simple as doing a maf cal.
We did build a boost leak tester, we just need to get a compressor now! The one we had wasn't working.

Originally Posted by Fstrnyou View Post
Double check your MAFCAL tables. Something sounds screwy. I know you haven't touched them, but check anyways. Compare them to stock values.

As mentioned, lean at part throttle and WOT is typ a leak between MAF and turbo...or a screwed up MAFCAL.

What type of catch can set up do you have?
He has no catch can at the moment. Not sure how to check the MAFCAL tables, but we will research and find out!

Just some more back ground info, his car was running flawlessly, even a bit rich, which is a lot more consistent with this platform. Literally out of no where, his car started running like this after he got his winter tires swapped over to his summers. It's just weird how it randomly started.

We took apart the intake up to the turbo and everything was all snug and tight. Might try putting the stock airbox back in, along with the stock BPV to rule out some stuff. Any other feedback would be appreciated!

Last edited by alden; 05-21-2018 at 02:12 PM. Reason: MSF Database - Automerged Doublepost
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 Old 05-21-2018, 02:55 PM   #18
 
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Just an update, we just swapped my MAF sensor in his car, went for a drive, we did a wot log, just waiting for him to send it to me. When I watched the AFR during the wot run, it didn't hit over 11.9 though, so maybe his MAF is on its way out? Also, like MUCH less KR.
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 Old 05-21-2018, 03:47 PM   #19
 
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Updated log with my MAF sensor in his car. We cut it a little short, and started at 3K, we were pretty nervous of zoom zoom boom. Compared to the logs from before, this looks much better, however, I'd appreciate the input of people much smarter than me. lol
Attached Files
File Type: csv datalog7 (1).csv (15.6 KB, 3 views)
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 Old 05-22-2018, 07:26 PM   #20
 
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Final update. After switching my MAF sensor for his and seeing the result, we felt pretty confident that it was his MAF causing the problems. Today he picked up a new MAF and installed it. Voila! problem solved, and his KR is gone, and AFR is totally normal. Thank you guys for all the help and suggestions, it was greatly appreciated.
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 Old 05-22-2018, 09:47 PM   #21
 
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Congrats on the fix. It looked like everything was pointing to MAF, but I didn't even think to consider a faulty sensor.
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 Old 05-23-2018, 05:17 AM   #22
 
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Originally Posted by Fstrnyou View Post
Congrats on the fix. It looked like everything was pointing to MAF, but I didn't even think to consider a faulty sensor.
Thanks man! We didn't think so either, but we stumbled across a thread where a guy had similar issues and his MAF was going out, so we figured we'd try it! Hopefully no damage was done from the knock and messed up AFR.
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