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 Old 11-06-2019, 05:01 AM   #1
 
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Default Low Compression Update

To update my previous post I promised.

Mechanic said I had under 125 compression is all cylinders and cylinder 2 was at 0. I told him to go ahead with opening it up to see the extent of the damage and whether or not I'll need to get a full upper rebuild and machining done or just replace some valves, rings etc.

He asked if I had a tune on it and I said yes. He claims the accessport tune could've had an effect of my cylinders going bad but I'm not so sure...

I was running a Cobb OTS Stage 1+ tune, with a cobb rmm, 3" downpipe, cobb SF intake, cs bpv, and hpfp.

My question is do you guys think that tune could of possibly been part of the reason my car starting acting funny? I doubt it but this mechanic is starting to make me question everything lol


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 Old 11-06-2019, 06:09 AM   #2
 
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Well, honestly, why are you asking board members for advice when you ignored multiple suggestions in your other thread not to trust the second compression test?

We were all suggesting you get a different mechanic or at least validate that compression test by re-testing. The low numbers in that last test were totally inconsistent with your original post. By nature, a compression gauge can’t read high (assuming it is reasonably accurate) but can easily read low if not sealed properly.

The variation in readings was extreme. I don’t trust the low readings. I still don’t.

Now, as to the tune: It may have contributed, but we know absolutely zero about it. Aftermarket tunes can be as safe or safer than the OEM tune, particularly given variations in other bolt-one on the engine. Or, a tune can be dangerous for the same reasons, if incompatible with changes in mods, or if done by someone who didn’t know how to tune safely. Cobb OTS tunes are crap. Running the 3” downpipe without a proper, compatible tune is problematic as it can produce some nasty boost spikes and potentially boost creep. I think the Cobb Stage 1+ map was not intended to be run with that 3” downpipe catted or catless. If catless, that is even worse.

A data log taken recently would answer a lot of questions.

For God’s sake, get a second opinion and an independent compression test before letting anyone scatter your engine.
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 Old 11-06-2019, 09:15 AM   #3
 
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I believe you should've been using the stage 2 tune with that downpipe and intake mods.
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 Old 11-06-2019, 09:21 AM   #4
 
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Originally Posted by Db09ms3 View Post
I believe you should've been using the stage 2 tune with that downpipe and intake mods.


Yea I originally had stage 2 put on but I was worried it would be too much without a tmic. So I backtracked and put the stage 1+ ots tune on it.


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 Old 11-06-2019, 09:28 AM   #5
 
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Originally Posted by MSMS3 View Post
Well, honestly, why are you asking board members for advice when you ignored multiple suggestions in your other thread not to trust the second compression test?

We were all suggesting you get a different mechanic or at least validate that compression test by re-testing. The low numbers in that last test were totally inconsistent with your original post. By nature, a compression gauge canít read high (assuming it is reasonably accurate) but can easily read low if not sealed properly.

The variation in readings was extreme. I donít trust the low readings. I still donít.

Now, as to the tune: It may have contributed, but we know absolutely zero about it. Aftermarket tunes can be as safe or safer than the OEM tune, particularly given variations in other bolt-one on the engine. Or, a tune can be dangerous for the same reasons, if incompatible with changes in mods, or if done by someone who didnít know how to tune safely. Cobb OTS tunes are crap. Running the 3Ē downpipe without a proper, compatible tune is problematic as it can produce some nasty boost spikes and potentially boost creep. I think the Cobb Stage 1+ map was not intended to be run with that 3Ē downpipe catted or catless. If catless, that is even worse.

A data log taken recently would answer a lot of questions.

For Godís sake, get a second opinion and an independent compression test before letting anyone scatter your engine.


Holy moly chill out my dude. I didn't just "ignore multiple suggestions" from everyone on here. I've known this mechanic my whole life and I know he's an honest guy. This was first time attempting a compression so I know there's some things I must have done wrong lol

This post was about a question I had about the tune possibly being a part of the problem, not to complain like you.


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 Old 11-06-2019, 09:57 AM   #6
 
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A 2nd opinion never hurts though. Checking your last thread you made about this, you were suggested to take it to another mechanic to double check the comp numbers. Your 1st tests looked decent and you didn't mention if you were consuming coolant, which would point to finding where it is going.

Also, regarding that cobb 1+ tune, did it include mods like the downpipe in it's criteria?

Hope you have a second ride for a daily or get used to hoofing it.
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 Old 11-06-2019, 01:47 PM   #7
 
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Originally Posted by danny_speed3 View Post
Holy moly chill out my dude. I didn't just "ignore multiple suggestions" from everyone on here. I've known this mechanic my whole life and I know he's an honest guy. This was first time attempting a compression so I know there's some things I must have done wrong lol

This post was about a question I had about the tune possibly being a part of the problem, not to complain like you.


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I am dead serious about you getting a second opinion on the compression. You might not want to attack people trying to help you. We are unlikely to want to continue offering help. There was an edge to that advice for a reason.

Before you assume you did something wrong in your compression test procedure, just think about how impossible it is for you to get an erroneous "high" reading. Where do you think that pressure came from that was showing up in the 150 to 180 psi range? Was that your imagination?

Oh, I did also give you a specific answer regarding your tune. I'll try to repeat, and summarize it. I thought I was speaking rather plainly.

Running a Stage 1+ crappy OTS Cobb tune with a 3" downpipe is not a good combo. You were likely seeing 18-19 psi with spikes beyond the ability of your MAF sensor to read (it maxes out just short of 23 psi) when running a 3" catless downpipe (probably similar even with a cat). Those spikes might have been way above 22+ psi. A data log would tell and might allay some of my anxiety for your engine health.

If I recall correctly (I could be mistaken) the Cobb Stage 1+ tune is for boost not exceeding 16.5 psi range and for a stock downpipe.

That's why I also asked if you had a current log for us to look at to see if that might provide a clue about your issues.

FWIW, some of the worst advice I've ever received was from well-meaning friends. I guess, maybe you don't need us after all? We are sometimes inclined to offer tough love here. But, it is meant to be helpful.
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 Old 11-06-2019, 01:54 PM   #8
 
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I'll try to post logs here after I get my accessport back, it's still in the shop with the car.

I did monitor boost and I believe it never spiked above 17 psi since I rarely wot the car, but I could be wrong.

That wasn't an attack on you homie, no need to get butt hurt about it. I'm on this forum for the same reason as everyone else. Because none of us know everything and like to learn.

Thanks for the info though it does actually help and I'll be looking more into the tune after I get it back <3


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 Old 11-06-2019, 02:03 PM   #9
 
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Originally Posted by danny_speed3 View Post
Yea I originally had stage 2 put on but I was worried it would be too much without a tmic. So I backtracked and put the stage 1+ ots tune on it.


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If you were running fine on the Stage 2 tune with the downpipe, and reverted to Stage 1+ . . . then began noticing problems? Humm. Your concerns may be valid. Not because you ran a tune, but because you ran the wrong one for a 3" downpipe.

I really would like to see data logs. People don't understand that tunes for downpipes are designed (even the crappy Cobb OTS ones) to control boost, not only to raise it, but to also prevent it from operating outside of safe parameters such as developing spikes, overboost or boost creep. Reverting back to the lower boost tune may well have opened you up to dangerous operating conditions. Even the stock OEM tune, which is supposed to limit boost to 15.5 psi or so, will actually allow at least 18-19 psi when run with a 3" downpipe. It does not limit boost to stock levels when you increase flow. I can't say that is your problem, though, without logs.

Running a 3" downpipe without logging (please tell us you were logging) regardless of tune, is not a good thing.

I can say that you would not be the first person on this board to have serious problems that seem to be associated with Cobb's OTS maps.

If you can get this sorted out and know your engine is healthy otherwise, consider going with VersaTune or get a custom e-tune on your AP from one of the experienced tuners here that can safely optimize the tune for your mods.
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 Old 11-06-2019, 02:06 PM   #10
 
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Originally Posted by MSMS3 View Post
If you were running fine on the Stage 2 tune with the downpipe, and reverted to Stage 1+ . . . then began noticing problems? Humm.

I really would like to see data logs. People don't understand that tunes for downpipes are designed (even the crappy Cobb OTS ones) to control boost, not only to raise it, but to also prevent it from operating outside of safe parameters such as developing spikes, overboost or boost creep. Reverting back to the lower boost tune may well have opened you up to dangerous operating conditions. I can't say that, without logs.

I can say that you would not be the first person on this board to have serious problems that seem to be associated with Cobb's OTS maps.

If you can get this sorted out and know your engine is healthy otherwise, consider going with VersaTune or get a custom e-tune on your AP from one of the experienced tuners here that can safely optimize the tune for your mods.

Stage 2 was only on the car for a day. I'm not able to say for certain if the problems started because of going down to Stage 1+ or not unfortunately.

But I will try to grab those logs asap, might be really next week however.


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 Old 11-07-2019, 08:05 AM   #11
 
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Let's set aside the fact that Cobb OTS maps aren't great.

The stage 2 map would have been the safer choice for DP. Even though the boost targets are higher than stage 1, the wastegate tables are less aggressive because of the free flowing exhaust.

Stage 1 wastegate tables are more aggressive since it was meant for the restrictive stock DP. So I'd imagine it was overboosting and spiking with a DP.
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 Old 11-07-2019, 08:08 AM   #12
 
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Originally Posted by tegxsi View Post
Let's set aside the fact that Cobb OTS maps aren't great.

The stage 2 map would have been the safer choice for DP. Even though the boost targets are higher than stage 1, the wastegate tables are less aggressive because of the free flowing exhaust.

Stage 1 wastegate tables are more aggressive since it was meant for the restrictive stock DP. So I'd imagine it was overboosting and spiking with a DP.


Very interesting. I'm still new to all this so I've been doing a lot of reading. I think I'll set it to Stage 2 when I get back but keep boost low until I get a full stage 2 set up.


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 Old 11-07-2019, 08:22 AM   #13
 
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There is a bit more involved in tuning that just setting a number for the boost.

Boost/load targets, wastegate tables, boost/load error correction, temperature compensations, etc. all have to align for a good safe tune. All these need to be evaluated when there are hardware changes.
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 Old 11-07-2019, 09:12 AM   #14
 
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Originally Posted by tegxsi View Post
There is a bit more involved in tuning that just setting a number for the boost.

Boost/load targets, wastegate tables, boost/load error correction, temperature compensations, etc. all have to align for a good safe tune. All these need to be evaluated when there are hardware changes.


I'm guessing I have to tune it with the access tuner app then? Or should I just get a pro tune and pay for a re tune everytime I add a new part?


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 Old 11-07-2019, 09:42 AM   #15
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One, the other, or both would do the trick for you. If you want to use Access Tuner Race (ATR), Cobb makes you pay to take a training course and then pass an exam. Only then can you make substantive changes to any tune.
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 Old 11-07-2019, 09:44 AM   #16
 
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Originally Posted by Vansquish View Post
One, the other, or both would do the trick for you. If you want to use Access Tuner Race (ATR), Cobb makes you pay to take a training course and then pass an exam. Only then can you make substantive changes to any tune.


I saw that. Hard to justify paying another $150 just to use the program though :/


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 Old 11-07-2019, 10:08 AM   #17
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That's up to you. Personally, I have always wanted the ability to see what has been changed in a given tune, and then to tweak it myself if necessary (adding new hard parts, etc.). Of course, I never had to pay, as I got into the game before Cobb started charging for the class.
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