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MazdaSpeed 3/6 - Troubleshoot/Diagnostics MazdaSpeed 3/6 - Troubleshoot/Diagnostics - Have a problem with the car? CEL Code? Want to discuss other issues? Come on in!


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 Old 06-05-2017, 12:29 PM   #1
 
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Default P0304 Idle & WOT / High KR

CONCLUSION: To save you some time, I have fixed this issue. It was my 4th cylinder fuel injector that went bad. Grommets were broken as well, bouncing around inside the fuel rail.

Hey all – so after a month & a half of research and troubleshooting, I am posting.
(I know there are tons of threads on this topic, but I can’t seem to narrow mine down)

[Mods are in my sig] 97k miles. It all started with a bad batch of gas…I got stuttering under boost after 25 miles after fill up. Not knowing it was the gas, I changed out the plugs, swapped the coils around, added two gallons of E85. Still getting a CEL.
I ran out that tank of gas, and got some genuine 91 octane, no ethanol. Car ran great for about 50 miles. Problem persisted.

The CEL is popping up at idle and flashing under WOT. I've only gone WOT to record logs..which I'm seeing very high KR. 5.0+

Thinking it could be injectors, I started removing everything for that process. My mechanic was able to soak my IM, and EGR tube, so those are spotless. The top right bolt (in front of cyl#4) holding the IM on, I discovered that bolt was broken. Some adhesive all over it. Hoping that was the culprit creating a giant leak, I replaced that bolt. Discovered my PCV hose was just a normal silicone hose and was pinched shut. Replaced that with the proper OEM hose.

Went to pull the injectors and before I even got the first torx bolt loose, I broke my bit...I said fuck it (because I found that broken bolt, I really thought that was my problem) I got everything back together and the problem is still there. Part of me thinks the injectors are fine because FP in my logs seem normal..but I could be wrong.

I put the stock heat range plugs in and the start up is definitely better, and the idle is smoother..still a CEL at idle.

I need some advise where I should look next. Datalogs are below as well as a condensed list of things I have tried. (sorry for the long post, I wanted to get as much info out as I could before I posted a "hey I got a P0304!!!")


Things I've tried...


-Moved and check coils, misfire stayed in Cyl#4 (resistance is 1.8)
-Checked all tubes around intake and IC
-Changed plugs and gapped at 0.028 (NGK IL TR6A-8G)
-Cleaned IM
-Cleaned TB
-Cleaned EGR Tube
-Cleaned MAF
-Replaced PCV Hose
-Replaced battery and terminals (due to significant corrosion build-up)
-Changed oil 200 miles ago
-Compression test showed...
D: 180, 184, 184, 180
W: 180, 184, 184, 180


First photo showing old plugs. Second is the current plug for the 4th cyl. Third is the broken IM bolt. Then PDF's of my logs. Wasn't sure the best format for those, so I have a few available.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Old Plugs.jpg (640.8 KB, 19 views)
File Type: jpg Current Plug 4th Cyl.jpg (933.5 KB, 19 views)
File Type: jpg IM bolts.JPG (640.2 KB, 14 views)
Attached Files
File Type: csv soulitified_Datalog10csv.csv (25.2 KB, 8 views)
File Type: xlsx soulitified_Datalog10.xlsx (38.6 KB, 3 views)
File Type: pdf soulitified_Datalog10pdf.pdf (839.7 KB, 40 views)
File Type: csv soulitified_Datalog11csv.csv (21.5 KB, 3 views)
File Type: xlsx soulitified_Datalog11.xlsx (38.3 KB, 0 views)
File Type: pdf soulitified_Datalog11pdf.pdf (763.1 KB, 43 views)
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Last edited by soulitified; 07-10-2017 at 11:48 AM. Reason: Added milage, oil change // added what fixed my problem
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 Old 06-05-2017, 01:32 PM   #2
 
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Nevermind, didn't read...
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 Old 06-05-2017, 02:41 PM   #3
 
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Originally Posted by g00s3y View Post
Nevermind, didn't read...
just HOPING this isn't a fkn zoomzoom boom situation.
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 Old 06-05-2017, 08:08 PM   #4
 
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Run a few tanks with fuel system cleaner. I had a recurring misfire code and after a few bottles of cleaner, it hasn't come back. I used Lucas brand.
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Manley 88mm Pistons & H-Tuff Rods, King Bearings
Stock Head/Cams, Stock Int/Exh Manifolds
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1988 RX-7 TII - Sold (Megasquirt, streetport, filter-on-turbo SRI, custom TBE, 20psi boost creep on OE turbo, OE TMIC on ice, 13.467 @ 105.44) apex seals said buh bye!
1985 Camaro - Sold (est. 265bhp 5.7 swap, Edelbrock intake & Hooker headers)
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 Old 06-06-2017, 06:45 AM   #5
 
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Ok so maby the kr from the bad gas caused cylinder pressure to spike to the point where the injector seals are loose/crappy. Loose inj seals will cause kr and you do have high milage. Soooo i would put in 1 gallon of e85 on a full tank and see if the kr is there while doing a WOT log. I know you ran ethonol but you never stated if the kr was there only that you had a cel. Did you clear the cel inbetween all these fixes? If it is then its mechanical if not its gas related. E85 even a gallon should raise the octane enuf to narrow down the source of the kr.

BTW if you pull the injectors you need to replace the injector seals anyway so good thing that torx bit broke. Get a proper set not thay crappy shit you find hanging above the parts counter guy.
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 Old 06-06-2017, 07:58 AM   #6
 
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Originally Posted by 5doorsoffury View Post
Ok so maby the kr from the bad gas caused cylinder pressure to spike to the point where the injector seals are loose/crappy. Loose inj seals will cause kr and you do have high milage. Soooo i would put in 1 gallon of e85 on a full tank and see if the kr is there while doing a WOT log. I know you ran ethonol but you never stated if the kr was there only that you had a cel. Did you clear the cel inbetween all these fixes? If it is then its mechanical if not its gas related. E85 even a gallon should raise the octane enuf to narrow down the source of the kr.

BTW if you pull the injectors you need to replace the injector seals anyway so good thing that torx bit broke. Get a proper set not thay crappy shit you find hanging above the parts counter guy.


Would a compression test show that kind of mechanical failure? I yielded great results so i hope I'm in the clear there.

I've been constantly clearing the cel. Sometimes I can drive 15 miles with nothing, then it pops back up.

I will put in a gallon of eth, and run some more logs. If it's the seals, the KR should minimize, proving the seals are bad?


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Originally Posted by Fstrnyou View Post
Run a few tanks with fuel system cleaner. I had a recurring misfire code and after a few bottles of cleaner, it hasn't come back. I used Lucas brand.


I've been wanting to go this route, but I haven't due to reading negatives about doing so, and I know some people just don't believe in it...but yet it helped you and plenty others. Shit has me stumped.

I'm gunna try a gallon of eth in hopes that does the trick.


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ACT: 6 Puck
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Cobb: AccessPort, FMIC Piping v2, SRI
CS: Injector Seals, TIP, EBCS
Damond: EGR Delete, RMM, PMM, 2 OCC's & PCV Plate
Eibach: Sportline Springs
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Koni: Yellows Struts
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Megan Racing: Camber Arms
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Last edited by soulitified; 06-06-2017 at 07:58 AM. Reason: MSF Database - Automerged Doublepost
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 Old 06-06-2017, 09:07 AM   #7
 
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If KR remains with some E in the tank, you are experiencing false knock caused by a mechanical issue, which could be leaking inj seals.
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CS Turbo/DP/RP/HPFP/BPV/R-DiffMount
White Widow F-DiffMount, Whiteline RSB
Russian Bushings in Back, Poly FSB Bushings, Magnaflow CBE
JBR Tru-3.5/3-port EBCS/EGR-D
Damond RMM/PMM/Stage 2 OCC/PCV Plate
AWR TMM on stand-by
Other rides:
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2004 Olds Alero ECOtec 2.2 - Broken (since Christmas 2015)
History:
2008 GSX-R 1000 - Stolen (With several runs past 180, I'd probably be dead by now if it wasn't stolen. So, in a way, I'm thankful.)
1988 RX-7 TII - Sold (Megasquirt, streetport, filter-on-turbo SRI, custom TBE, 20psi boost creep on OE turbo, OE TMIC on ice, 13.467 @ 105.44) apex seals said buh bye!
1985 Camaro - Sold (est. 265bhp 5.7 swap, Edelbrock intake & Hooker headers)
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 Old 06-06-2017, 09:54 AM   #8
 
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Originally Posted by Fstrnyou View Post
If KR remains with some E in the tank, you are experiencing false knock caused by a mechanical issue, which could be leaking inj seals.


That would be ideal. I have CS seals in the box, just waiting on my mechanic currently. I'm confident I could do it, but it'd be my first time fkn with injectors and I don't want to take the chance of fkn that up.


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Originally Posted by Fstrnyou View Post
If KR remains with some E in the tank, you are experiencing false knock caused by a mechanical issue, which could be leaking inj seals.


Thanks for all the input btw - really appreciate you taken the time to help me troubleshoot.


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ACT: 6 Puck
Autotech: HPFP Internals
BF Goodrich G-Force Comp-2 [225/40/18]
Cobb: AccessPort, FMIC Piping v2, SRI
CS: Injector Seals, TIP, EBCS
Damond: EGR Delete, RMM, PMM, 2 OCC's & PCV Plate
Eibach: Sportline Springs
Enkei GSR's
GoFastBits: TMS Dualport BOV
JBR: IM/TB Coolant Delete + Gaskets, RSB + Tru-Torsion Billet Bracket/Bushings
Koni: Yellows Struts
Manzo: Downpipe
Megan Racing: Camber Arms
Racing Beat: CBE w/ Muffler Delete
Treadstone: TR8 Core
Whiteline: ALK, Bumpsteer Kit, Poly Bushings, Rear Endlinks

Last edited by soulitified; 06-06-2017 at 09:54 AM. Reason: MSF Database - Automerged Doublepost
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 Old 06-06-2017, 10:18 AM   #9
 
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I did mine in my driveway. Wasn't too bad. I'm sure there is a tutorial thread somewhere here. I used Toyota seals though, so it's only a matter of time before they fail and I get to do it again.

All of my injectors popped right out. Others need to use a puller tool if there's a good bit of corrosion.
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2006 MS6 GT - 159.7k Miles (Forged @ 157,116)
Manley 88mm Pistons & H-Tuff Rods, King Bearings
Stock Head/Cams, Stock Int/Exh Manifolds
Versatuner, 3-bar MAP, ITV22's, CP-e TMIC
CS Turbo/DP/RP/HPFP/BPV/R-DiffMount
White Widow F-DiffMount, Whiteline RSB
Russian Bushings in Back, Poly FSB Bushings, Magnaflow CBE
JBR Tru-3.5/3-port EBCS/EGR-D
Damond RMM/PMM/Stage 2 OCC/PCV Plate
AWR TMM on stand-by
Other rides:
2002 Tacoma ExtCab 2.4L 5spd 2WD - 355k mile Parts Getter
2004 Olds Alero ECOtec 2.2 - Broken (since Christmas 2015)
History:
2008 GSX-R 1000 - Stolen (With several runs past 180, I'd probably be dead by now if it wasn't stolen. So, in a way, I'm thankful.)
1988 RX-7 TII - Sold (Megasquirt, streetport, filter-on-turbo SRI, custom TBE, 20psi boost creep on OE turbo, OE TMIC on ice, 13.467 @ 105.44) apex seals said buh bye!
1985 Camaro - Sold (est. 265bhp 5.7 swap, Edelbrock intake & Hooker headers)
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 Old 06-06-2017, 07:16 PM   #10
 
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Default P0304 Idle & WOT / High KR

I ran 1 gallon of e85. Here are the logs..all forth gear, 2500rpm's to 6K.



Without boost everything seems fine. No cel. But the first time I got into boost the cel came back (P0304). This was without e85, just warming up the car prior to filling.



After 1 gallon of e85 I ran 5 logs. They progressed as I went, the first two logs I got a cel in the middle of pulling. Around 4/5krpm. I stopped and cleared the cel after the second log. My last 3 logs were better. No cel during my pulls. But after letting off the cel would come back each time. I cleared the cel after the 3rd, 4th and 5th logs.



It looks like I'm getting KR right around 10-13psi WOT

-I'm on the OTS Stage 1 91 map btw
Attached Files
File Type: csv soulitified_1gal_e85_datalog12.csv (20.1 KB, 3 views)
File Type: csv soulitified_1gal_e85_datalog14.csv (21.3 KB, 2 views)
File Type: csv soulitified_1gal_e85_datalog15.csv (35.3 KB, 2 views)
File Type: csv soulitified_1gal_e85_datalog16.csv (29.4 KB, 5 views)
File Type: csv soulitified_1gal_e85_datalog13.csv (22.8 KB, 3 views)
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08 Mazdaspeed3 [GHOST TUNED]

ACT: 6 Puck
Autotech: HPFP Internals
BF Goodrich G-Force Comp-2 [225/40/18]
Cobb: AccessPort, FMIC Piping v2, SRI
CS: Injector Seals, TIP, EBCS
Damond: EGR Delete, RMM, PMM, 2 OCC's & PCV Plate
Eibach: Sportline Springs
Enkei GSR's
GoFastBits: TMS Dualport BOV
JBR: IM/TB Coolant Delete + Gaskets, RSB + Tru-Torsion Billet Bracket/Bushings
Koni: Yellows Struts
Manzo: Downpipe
Megan Racing: Camber Arms
Racing Beat: CBE w/ Muffler Delete
Treadstone: TR8 Core
Whiteline: ALK, Bumpsteer Kit, Poly Bushings, Rear Endlinks
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 Old 06-07-2017, 08:56 AM   #11
 
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You are really lean and bats are high. It looks like real knock since it decays. I would do a maf cal maby a valve cleaning. 12.5 afr 125 bats 12 degrees of timing at 5 k when knock hits
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 Old 06-07-2017, 02:25 PM   #12
 
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Default P0304 Idle & WOT / High KR

Originally Posted by 5doorsoffury View Post
You are really lean and bats are high. It looks like real knock since it decays. I would do a maf cal maby a valve cleaning. 12.5 afr 125 bats 12 degrees of timing at 5 k when knock hits


Would a loose MAF cause this? Not necessarily the knock. My MAF seems to be seated just fine, but I have noticed when screwing it back in the bolts won't go tight like on my other vehicles. There is minimal play, but still there nonetheless.


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 Old 06-07-2017, 03:32 PM   #13
 
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If you're replacing injector seals, get the injectors cleaned too. If you can't be down for the time, buy a set of injectors on the used market and send them off for cleaning ahead of time.
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 Old 07-10-2017, 11:44 AM   #14
 
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For those of you following this thread or having similar/identical symptoms...

It was my 4th cyl fuel injector that went bad. The grommets were broken as well, bouncing around inside the fuel rail (causing KR?)

Since then (800 miles on the new injector so far) everything has been running great. Car is back to normal. Pulls hard, no cuts, no stuttering, no cel's...I will attach some logs when I get home.
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 Old 03-13-2018, 06:41 PM   #15
 
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Originally Posted by soulitified View Post
For those of you following this thread or having similar/identical symptoms...

It was my 4th cyl fuel injector that went bad. The grommets were broken as well, bouncing around inside the fuel rail (causing KR?)

Since then (800 miles on the new injector so far) everything has been running great. Car is back to normal. Pulls hard, no cuts, no stuttering, no cel's...I will attach some logs when I get home.
Dude thanks so much for posting your results after the issue was resolved. I've been going down the same exact path as you did, and I'm about ready to pull the injectors and check cyl4... First going to check with E85 and/or Lucas fuel system cleaner. Will post results.
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 Old 03-17-2018, 01:37 PM   #16
 
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Update since I said I would: E85/Lucas fuel cleaner did nothing, misfire on cyl4. New OEM plugs, nothing changed. Compression results: 160 160 150 160 (rebuild this summer will bring those #'s up). Swapped coils on 3&4, and same time swapped plugs on 2&4; misfire stayed on cyl4. Ended up following Jimmer307's injector replacement how-to. New injector on cyl4, now runs like a dream. No stutter, no CEL.
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 Old 03-19-2018, 08:25 AM   #17
 
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Originally Posted by TroyK View Post
Update since I said I would: E85/Lucas fuel cleaner did nothing, misfire on cyl4. New OEM plugs, nothing changed. Compression results: 160 160 150 160 (rebuild this summer will bring those #'s up). Swapped coils on 3&4, and same time swapped plugs on 2&4; misfire stayed on cyl4. Ended up following Jimmer307's injector replacement how-to. New injector on cyl4, now runs like a dream. No stutter, no CEL.
That's good to hear man, I'm glad my experience helped.

My car is not a fan of the 91oct in my area (or that I was acquiring) So i ended up tuning on 93oct and its been great.

[moral of this is: also find good fuel] lol
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 Old 03-19-2018, 03:38 PM   #18
 
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Originally Posted by soulitified View Post
That's good to hear man, I'm glad my experience helped.

My car is not a fan of the 91oct in my area (or that I was acquiring) So i ended up tuning on 93oct and its been great.

[moral of this is: also find good fuel] lol
Yeah. I was driving back from a trip to Colorado when the first small misfires started happening. Some of the gas stations in West Nebraska and East Colorado (aka middle of nowhere) that I went to were definitely suspects for the bad fuel source.

The very day I got home, I started getting heavier stutter. The next day, misfire CEL. Next time I'll be filling up more frequently so I'm not forced to refuel at the shady pumps.
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 Old 03-20-2018, 09:10 AM   #19
 
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Originally Posted by TroyK View Post
Next time I'll be filling up more frequently so I'm not forced to refuel at the shady pumps.
I will also be routing my trips accordingly..

www.find93.com
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