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MazdaSpeed 3/6 - Troubleshoot/Diagnostics MazdaSpeed 3/6 - Troubleshoot/Diagnostics - Have a problem with the car? CEL Code? Want to discuss other issues? Come on in!


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 Old 01-07-2013, 07:38 PM   #1
 
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Default Pop sound at startup - suspect leaking injector?

Under warranty, Mazda just installed a completely new motor and turbo on my car.

I drove away with it a month ago and within 2 weeks of driving, the temps dropped below 40F here in Indy.

The first morning I came out when it was <40F, I started the car and it made a single loud popping noise. Every day after that first cold day when the temps were below 40F (or so) and the car had sat for at least 2 hours (or so) and I started the car, I got the same thing.

Sometimes, there are 2 pops, but in all cases the sequence is:

starter turnover1, starter turnover2, combustion turnover1, POP!, run normally

The pop smells like frying electronics, at least to me.

So, I took the car back to Mazda and said, "uh, nope, not done, you did something wrong and my fuel economy is about 17MPG while driving like a grandma and I used to get 26-28mpg driving that way".

They've had it for 2 weeks and cannot figure it out.

At first, I insisted that the leaking coolant hose (yes, they left the lower rad hose loose on the re-install and I had to come back a 2nd time - this trip was the third time).

One time they saw a puff of smoke and they thought it came out near the intake.

they ran all ECU diagnostics and checks on the car.
They inspected the starter and alternator, but neither seems to be producing the sound, despite the burning electrical smell.

They have now contacted US Mazda engineering for advice.

As of Friday night, the advice was this:
-disconnect first injector wire, start when cold, if no pop, suspect/replace injector
-repeat for all injectors
-I also told them I wouldn't accept the fix unless they repeated a working result several times with the new injector from a cold start ( I won't accept any false positives )

The fucking bitch of this is that I don't think my injector was bad to begin with.

For the record, the turbo shaft warped, sucked out my engine oil and my motor got rod knock, so I don't think that kind of failure could've damaged my injectors, but what do I know? They (mazda) just sends the thing back in for later analysis, but doesn't tell me anything except "here's a new motor!".

It seems like the poor fuel eco on the new motor + the pop only at ice-cold start-up could explain the pop, but I don't understand why the burning electrical smell doesn't smell more like fuel.

the problem didn't happen at all above 40F and its now been checked about 30 times.

Do you think they are on the right track?

Is this likely an injector failure or possibly an injector seal failure?

If yes, any idea what the parts cost is for just an injector? I see pricing for seal kits on the web, but not for the injectors for a speed3 (only mazda 3).

If this is the problem, I don't think I should have to pay, but as I've no way to prove that the injector wasn't broken beforehand, I have a weak argument.

anyway, thanks for any feedback you have...
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 Old 01-07-2013, 08:06 PM   #2
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Default

Can you get a video of it?

Sounds like a potential injector or injector seal.
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 Old 01-08-2013, 11:31 AM   #3
 
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Default

Originally Posted by phate View Post
Can you get a video of it?

Sounds like a potential injector or injector seal.
Sorry for the delay.
I took some video back in late December before it went in.

I hope these files aren't too big.
The video files are from my Android phone and they will play in Quicktime:
pop_at_7seconds.zip

You really need to listen to them with headphones, otherwise the sound of the pop is too tinny to be distinguished from the engine cranking.

knock/pop at 7 seconds (look just before 7 seconds)
knock/pop at 19 seconds (look just before 19 seconds)
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 Old 01-10-2013, 08:09 PM   #4
 
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Dealership got clever (on Mazda engineers' advice) and let my car sit in the cold overnight.

In the morning, they rolled it into the shop and put a flexible camera scope into each cylinder through each spark plug hole and looked at the injectors.

one of the injectors had gas droplets on it, so they suspected it was leaking and they ordered a new one to install tomorrow/Saturday.

I still don't understand why the pop can be heard through the intake, though.

how can gasoline from a leaking injector ignite at start-up and be heard as a pop?

only through the intake, right?
and if heard through the intake, that means the intake valve is open when the droplet of gasoline is combusting...

that could only mean the spark in that cylinder is way off, right?

what am I missing?
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CP-E RMM
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 Old 01-19-2013, 09:14 AM   #5
 
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Default SOLVED

And the answer is...

leaking injector and seal.

The injector was leaking so they went to replace it.

When they removed it for replacement, they noted that the brand-new seal was black.

It looks like two things were wrong - it looked like the injector was leaking and the seal wasn't in correctly/completely.

seems like at first combustion in that cylinder, the blast of exploded fuel was coming out past the seal and sealing it somehow.

I didn't want to make any accusations, but I gotta believe the mechanic did something wrong on re-installation to my new motor the first time the injectors were put back in.

Anyway, no more pop on cold-start.

problem solved.
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Mazda RX-8 50mm ET 18"x8" Dupli-color Graphite/Clear with 245/40/18 Continental DWS No-season Tires
CS SRI | CS TIP | TMIC | HPFP
CP-E RMM
JBR SSP (30%) | JBR SSB | JBR RSB
Koni Yellows on stock springs
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 Old 12-13-2014, 12:20 PM   #6
 
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Default

Not to bring this from the dead but it doesn't seem like a very common issue.

I doubted this thread until i had a buddy come and listen Injector 1 is giving me shit.

Anyways i've had my fair share of issues with injector seals.

Everytime i've had a misfire from it
This produces no smell other than that bullshit Electric smell
I was expecting some code, some fuel smell. Nope nothing.

So true thread is true
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