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 Old 01-08-2018, 07:17 PM   #1
 
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Default Rmm Crossthread help

Hey guys, really need some help on this one and info is super scarce.

I installed a corksport rmm on my ms6 and ended up goofing it and cross threaded the bolt that connects the small half of the dogbone rmm to the motor.

The car has massive hiccups at WOT especially on higher gears and im 90% sure its due to the rmm being messed up. the car gets super jerky and makes all kinds of bad sounds and bumps when i accelerate. only started after goofing the motor mount.

The question is, is there anything i can do about it that wont break the bank?
Any help would be appreciated because its really freaking me ou, ive been driving it at 50% throttle max until i figure out how to fix this.

Thanks!
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 Old 01-08-2018, 08:08 PM   #2
 
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You cross threaded the bolt going through the bushing??
I think your only option is to tap it to a larger bolt, but it gets scary here, since if you mess that up you'll have to modify the rmm, hell you might have to already. If you don't have much experience with tapping threads you may want to seek pro help...
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 Old 01-08-2018, 08:22 PM   #3
 
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Drill it out and helicoil that shit.
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 Old 01-08-2018, 08:26 PM   #4
 
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Originally Posted by Djohns View Post
Drill it out and helicoil that shit.
My problem with that is how deep the threads are, it's a difficult spot to helicoil, but tapping would be bad too since you'd need such a long tap...

Good luck either way
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 Old 01-08-2018, 08:27 PM   #5
 
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Originally Posted by kTaLgsTo View Post
My problem with that is how deep the threads are, it's a difficult spot to helicoil, but tapping would be bad too since you'd need such a long tap...

Good luck either way
I’ve helicoiled a locals car after he fucked that same spot up. It can be done.
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The go: Depo racing: downpipe (100 cell count), custom: FMIC. HTP: 3.5" intake, under route piping. JBR: shortshifter, RSB. Autotech: HPFP internals. Go fast bits: hybrid BPV, VMR: 18x8.5 V710s, Bridgestone: potenza re760 245/40/18, KW: v3 coilovers,SPC: camber arms, freektuned, Damond Motorsports: dual OCC, PMM, PCV plate, RMM, TMM, EGR delete, FoSt mani, Corksport: battery box(fuck this thing), injector seals, Cobb: EBCS, AP v3. AEM: methanol. Seibon: carbon fiber hood. UR: catback. Bosch: 3bar. BNR: s4, DNP: EWG manifold, Tial: 38mm mvs EWG.

The show: 5% tint all around, 50% tint windshield, rally armor mudflaps, Sony XAV64BT touchscreen headunit, katskin leather interior, CPE relocation plate, Maisonvi weighted shift knob, Corksport hoodscoop, black housing headlights.

Soon:built motor
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 Old 01-08-2018, 08:42 PM   #6
 
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Originally Posted by Djohns View Post
Drill it out and helicoil that shit.
Just looked it up and it seems like something i might be able to do, any pro tips or common errors to watch out for? id be doing it for the first time under a car on something i dont want to fuck up so the more i know going in the better xD

Thanks for the replies!
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 Old 01-08-2018, 08:44 PM   #7
 
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Originally Posted by Levi View Post
Just looked it up and it seems like something i might be able to do, any pro tips or common errors to watch out for? id be doing it for the first time under a car on something i dont want to fuck up so the more i know going in the better xD

Thanks for the replies!
Use a good amount of tapping oil (although not needed, might help with it being your first) and go slow. Make sure you’re going in perfectly straight.
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The go: Depo racing: downpipe (100 cell count), custom: FMIC. HTP: 3.5" intake, under route piping. JBR: shortshifter, RSB. Autotech: HPFP internals. Go fast bits: hybrid BPV, VMR: 18x8.5 V710s, Bridgestone: potenza re760 245/40/18, KW: v3 coilovers,SPC: camber arms, freektuned, Damond Motorsports: dual OCC, PMM, PCV plate, RMM, TMM, EGR delete, FoSt mani, Corksport: battery box(fuck this thing), injector seals, Cobb: EBCS, AP v3. AEM: methanol. Seibon: carbon fiber hood. UR: catback. Bosch: 3bar. BNR: s4, DNP: EWG manifold, Tial: 38mm mvs EWG.

The show: 5% tint all around, 50% tint windshield, rally armor mudflaps, Sony XAV64BT touchscreen headunit, katskin leather interior, CPE relocation plate, Maisonvi weighted shift knob, Corksport hoodscoop, black housing headlights.

Soon:built motor
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 Old 01-08-2018, 08:52 PM   #8
 
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Originally Posted by Levi View Post
Just looked it up and it seems like something i might be able to do, any pro tips or common errors to watch out for? id be doing it for the first time under a car on something i dont want to fuck up so the more i know going in the better xD

Thanks for the replies!
Practice on the bench a few times, get a feel for the tools. Then crawl under the car.
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 Old 01-09-2018, 09:14 AM   #9
 
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Found this by chance....

More common of an issue than I thought, I don't think I've ever cross threaded a bolt in my life though...

How to repair stripped rmm nut with helical thread repair kit
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 Old 01-09-2018, 10:16 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by Levi View Post
Hey guys, really need some help on this one and info is super scarce.

I installed a corksport rmm on my ms6 and ended up goofing it and cross threaded the bolt that connects the small half of the dogbone rmm to the motor.

The car has massive hiccups at WOT especially on higher gears and im 90% sure its due to the rmm being messed up. the car gets super jerky and makes all kinds of bad sounds and bumps when i accelerate. only started after goofing the motor mount.

The question is, is there anything i can do about it that wont break the bank?
Any help would be appreciated because its really freaking me ou, ive been driving it at 50% throttle max until i figure out how to fix this.

Thanks!
Sucks that you cross-threaded your RMM bolt, BUT that has absolutely nothing to do with jerking at WOT in higher gears. It sounds to me like you're running into boost or load cut because you're exceeding the boost/load limits set in the tune that you're currently using.

What are your mods, and do you have upgraded HPFP internals installed?



You need a proper tune.
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 Old 01-09-2018, 01:37 PM   #11
 
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Originally Posted by Vansquish View Post
Sucks that you cross-threaded your RMM bolt, BUT that has absolutely nothing to do with jerking at WOT in higher gears. It sounds to me like you're running into boost or load cut because you're exceeding the boost/load limits set in the tune that you're currently using.

What are your mods, and do you have upgraded HPFP internals installed?



You need a proper tune.
Right now its running stage 1+SF, i believe the HPFP was rebuilt by last owner but not upgraded, ive never had problems with power cut and cobb told me that i should be fine on stock hpfp till stage 2.

My brother has an ms6 with turbo leak and stock hpfp with no tune and have felt the cut in his car, its a much diffrent feeling.

Il toss a datalog up of a slightly less than 100% 1-3 pull so anyone who knows their stuff can look at it and tell me if anythings off, all i know is if hpfp goes under 1600 at WOT thats not good.

Thanks for picking apart the post! il be looking into the helicoils( not sure how to go about sizing without taking the rmm off) other than that i just hope that it either fixes the problem, or the problem isnt that expensive to fix if i bring it to a more experienced shop. (both shops i went to told me it was fairly serious but they couldnt diagnose the power rumble/cut/jerky/weird feeling.

Thanks again!
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 Old 01-09-2018, 02:26 PM   #12
 
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If you don't feel comfortable installing the helicoil yourself I'd just bite the cost and take it to a shop. Also, if its not cross threaded terribly you might get away with just running the right size tap into it. I would try that first.

I'm guessing when you did the job the hole didn't quite line up with the hole in the RMM. This is easily solved with a ratchet strap to pull the motor back in place. Its how I did mine. One hook on the bottom of the motor (there is an ear that comes down near the front) and the other on a frame hole mid car. A couple pulls and it lines right up.

I'd also suggest you upgrade your internals right away. I wouldn't go WOT until then, or you may have a much bigger problem on your hands.

Good luck!
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 Old 01-11-2018, 09:53 AM   #13
 
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Originally Posted by Thor Hammer View Post
If you don't feel comfortable installing the helicoil yourself I'd just bite the cost and take it to a shop. Also, if its not cross threaded terribly you might get away with just running the right size tap into it. I would try that first.

I'm guessing when you did the job the hole didn't quite line up with the hole in the RMM. This is easily solved with a ratchet strap to pull the motor back in place. Its how I did mine. One hook on the bottom of the motor (there is an ear that comes down near the front) and the other on a frame hole mid car. A couple pulls and it lines right up.

I'd also suggest you upgrade your internals right away. I wouldn't go WOT until then, or you may have a much bigger problem on your hands.

Good luck!
So i looked at it again and took it around the block a few times, i dont believe it is a boost or duel issue because the feeling that occured happened a few times under 3k rpm just as i started on the throttle(less than 50%) ive gone WOT plenty of times in the past with the stage1+sf with no weird feeling.

Is there a chance of it being a drive train problem or something non engine related?

what are the symptoms of having an rmm too tight so engine is locked in place or too loose so that its almost free moving?
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 Old 01-11-2018, 11:51 AM   #14
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@Levi;, you should read up on how to datalog properly. That log is confusing at best, as you don't have enough granularity in the data (not enough datapoints per second) to extrapolate much of anything useful. You can improve the granularity of the data a little bit by collecting a little less data during each log. That is, you don't need to log all 28 of the parameters you've got in the log you posted. I wrote up a list of the crucial parameters below.

If you want us to try and help you diagnose what's wrong with your car, you need to do at least one consistent pull, on flat ground, in third gear (second gear if you don't have space to do a full pull in third), from around 3000rpm to at least 6000rpm while (preferably) maintaining full throttle.

You also only really need to log the following 19 parameters:
AFR
Accel Pedal
Boost
Boost Air Temp
Calculated Load
HPFP Act. Pressure
Inj. Duty Cycle
Intake Temp
Intake Valve Adjust
Knock Retard
Long Term Fuel Trim
MAF Voltage
MAF g/s
RPM
Short Term Fuel Trim
Spark Advance
Throttle Position
Vehicle Speed
Wastegate Duty
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 Old 01-11-2018, 02:49 PM   #15
 
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Alright, im hoping i did that right, removed some of the parameters and did some pulls on the highway. hopefully didnt mix them up. Let me know if its useable or if there is anything else i need to do. I really appreciate the help and im taken away at how useful this forum is.
Attached Files
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File Type: txt 3rd gear pull.txt (17.6 KB, 2 views)
File Type: txt 5th gear acc weird feeling.txt (16.4 KB, 1 views)
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 Old 01-12-2018, 02:21 PM   #16
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What kind of intake is on the car?

Your third gear pull looks reasonably OK, except for two things.

1. You've got a bit of knock between 4500 and 5700rpm (My guess is that it continues further, but the knock sensor is disabled in your tune after 5700rpm, just like in the OEM tune).

2. You have some weird AFR behavior during the pull. That is, everything looks great for a while (11.37:1 AFR), then there's a blip of 12.29, then back to the low-mid 11.xx range, then a blip of 12.63 and back to the low/mid 11.xx range, etc.

The same basic AFR fluctuation is present in your 2nd and 5th gear pulls as well.

Also, for future reference I would STRONGLY recommend that you not go anywhere near full throttle in 4th, 5th, or 6th gears unless you're above 3000rpm. A number of people on this forum have blown their engines because they haven't heeded this advice.

So, where to start . . .

1) Make sure you've got some good premium gas in the tank, and

2) You may want to consider cleaning your MAF sensor.

Other than that, you really should be running a tune that is correct for the modifications on your car. Right now, you've got knock at consistent points during WOT runs, that tends to indicate that the tune you're running is probably not really acceptable for the modifications you're running.
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 Old 01-12-2018, 08:33 PM   #17
 
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Originally Posted by Vansquish View Post
What kind of intake is on the car?

Your third gear pull looks reasonably OK, except for two things.

1. You've got a bit of knock between 4500 and 5700rpm (My guess is that it continues further, but the knock sensor is disabled in your tune after 5700rpm, just like in the OEM tune).

2. You have some weird AFR behavior during the pull. That is, everything looks great for a while (11.37:1 AFR), then there's a blip of 12.29, then back to the low-mid 11.xx range, then a blip of 12.63 and back to the low/mid 11.xx range, etc.

The same basic AFR fluctuation is present in your 2nd and 5th gear pulls as well.

Also, for future reference I would STRONGLY recommend that you not go anywhere near full throttle in 4th, 5th, or 6th gears unless you're above 3000rpm. A number of people on this forum have blown their engines because they haven't heeded this advice.

So, where to start . . .

1) Make sure you've got some good premium gas in the tank, and

2) You may want to consider cleaning your MAF sensor.

Other than that, you really should be running a tune that is correct for the modifications on your car. Right now, you've got knock at consistent points during WOT runs, that tends to indicate that the tune you're running is probably not really acceptable for the modifications you're running.
Its a Cobb SRI and the tune im running is the stage 1+SF on 91 oct, for that it says just stock car with the cobb intake so i would assume it is the correct tune, but i will download a new map and install just to make sure.

Will look up how to clean the MAF sensor and get on that.

I guess all i can do is just make sure all my sensors are plugged in and clean and just make sure im not driving the car hard until its back to normal. Its just odd to me that its so inconstant, sometimes it feels like there massive blips of just weird throttle stuff, other times its very minor and barely noticable.

I will definetely heed the advice i cant afford a boom right now, bought the car for 4k and have already put around 5k into it just to keep it running. I love the car, would definitely stick to ms6 unless id want a hatchback at some point in which case id go for a soobie ( i hate fwd so no ms3 for me aha)

speaking of premium gas though, i always fill up with 91, but how much of a diffrence would it make (as in would the engine blow up) if 87 or 89 was used. And in the other direction would using 93 on a 91 tune make it safer, have no effect, or negative effect?
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 Old 01-14-2018, 12:44 PM   #18
 
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Update, cleaned MAF sensor, seemed to make a diffrence until i did a 2nd and 3rd pull to check if any numbers were out of place. 2nd pull felt fine, but 3rd pull had same weird feeling and then engine light came on. checked the AP and its a PCM P0300 code, so i have no clue what to do if my engine is misfiring. on the 3rd pull map you can see where the rpm blips down slightly in some spots. At this point i feel im in over my head and my best bet is to drive it under 3k rpm until i can afford to throw it in an auto shop and get them to figure it out.
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 Old 01-14-2018, 01:00 PM   #19
 
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Have you checked your spark plugs? Also check the wastegate lines and make sure they’re in good condition and not cracked and dry rotted.
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 Old 01-14-2018, 06:52 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by Levi View Post
Its a Cobb SRI and the tune im running is the stage 1+SF on 91 oct, for that it says just stock car with the cobb intake so i would assume it is the correct tune, but i will download a new map and install just to make sure.

Will look up how to clean the MAF sensor and get on that.

I guess all i can do is just make sure all my sensors are plugged in and clean and just make sure im not driving the car hard until its back to normal. Its just odd to me that its so inconstant, sometimes it feels like there massive blips of just weird throttle stuff, other times its very minor and barely noticable.

I will definetely heed the advice i cant afford a boom right now, bought the car for 4k and have already put around 5k into it just to keep it running. I love the car, would definitely stick to ms6 unless id want a hatchback at some point in which case id go for a soobie ( i hate fwd so no ms3 for me aha)

speaking of premium gas though, i always fill up with 91, but how much of a diffrence would it make (as in would the engine blow up) if 87 or 89 was used. And in the other direction would using 93 on a 91 tune make it safer, have no effect, or negative effect?
You should definitely ONLY use premium fuel in your car unless you have a tune specifically accounting for a lower quality fuel. It won't destroy your car to use lower octane fuel, but it will dramatically decrease performance, and it will cause the motor to experience knock much more readily. Knock will decrease the life of various parts of the rotating assembly of your motor, so you should try and avoid anything that will cause it.

Originally Posted by Levi View Post
Update, cleaned MAF sensor, seemed to make a diffrence until i did a 2nd and 3rd pull to check if any numbers were out of place. 2nd pull felt fine, but 3rd pull had same weird feeling and then engine light came on. checked the AP and its a PCM P0300 code, so i have no clue what to do if my engine is misfiring. on the 3rd pull map you can see where the rpm blips down slightly in some spots. At this point i feel im in over my head and my best bet is to drive it under 3k rpm until i can afford to throw it in an auto shop and get them to figure it out.
You should probably pull and check the condition of your spark plugs as well as making sure that they're gapped to 0.024"-0.027" and no more.
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 Old 01-14-2018, 08:39 PM   #21
 
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Originally Posted by Vansquish View Post
You should definitely ONLY use premium fuel in your car unless you have a tune specifically accounting for a lower quality fuel. It won't destroy your car to use lower octane fuel, but it will dramatically decrease performance, and it will cause the motor to experience knock much more readily. Knock will decrease the life of various parts of the rotating assembly of your motor, so you should try and avoid anything that will cause it.



You should probably pull and check the condition of your spark plugs as well as making sure that they're gapped to 0.024"-0.027" and no more.
Ok will do, Thanks again for the help! il also be doing a full check for a vacuum leak because that almost seems like something that it could be..
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