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 Old 02-22-2014, 11:24 AM   #1
 
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Default Starts then dies

I know I know there are a ton of these. However none seem to fix my problem, so here is the story. A few weeks ago when it was cold as shit the car would take a few cranks and throttle blips to start, nothing big I figured it was the weather since I am rocking the 51r battery. However a week later the car was completely dead, I could jump it and it seemed to run fine but as soon as I shut the car off it was dead and would not crank. Again I chalked it up to a bad battery, but the battery checked out fine. Now the fully charged battery will get the car to start however it ramps up like a normal cold start but as soon as the rpm starts to drop back down to normal idle it just dies. I can keep it going if I blip the throttle but it backfires like crazy and as soon as I stop...dead. I have cleaned the MAF the Crankshaft pos sensor as well as blipping the throttle to check if the alternator was charging and according to my accessport it was at 14.3. So my question is WTF is it!? I cant find any visible boost leaks, and it doesn't feel like its stumbling it just dies.
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 Old 02-22-2014, 11:45 AM   #2
 
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What intake do you have, if it has a straightener, make sure it is still sitting inside the maf housing correctly.
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 Old 02-22-2014, 11:53 AM   #3
 
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Yeah pulled it all off its the 3.5 htp everything is still good, I did just however pull my lugs and they are prreeeeeety nasty so im gonna clean, re-gap and retry.

Update: Cleaned plugs put them back in and it cranked and died. Thought fuck lemme see if my lights come on they did tried cranking it over with my lights on and it wouldn't turn over sooooo?
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 Old 02-22-2014, 02:17 PM   #4
 
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Everything is pointing toward a junk battery and the ass hats at advance wont replace it because its obviously not the correct oem battery for the car and they told me it tested good but obviously those are just simulations and not a true test but before I go dump another $100 I need some other opinions
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 Old 02-22-2014, 02:47 PM   #5
 
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Do you have an AP?
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 Old 02-22-2014, 02:52 PM   #6
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Skipped timing? Pull off your oil filler cap and see if your timing chain is lose.

also, Did you tune for the 3.5 intake? Put stock back on if you can and see if it idles, would eliminate some issues.
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 Old 02-23-2014, 08:59 AM   #7
 
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Yea I have an ap and yes I'm perm tuned, sorry I forgot my Sig is fucked up I'm on a gtx3076 so stock intake is a no go

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 Old 02-23-2014, 11:33 AM   #8
 
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Originally Posted by kby View Post
Skipped timing? Pull off your oil filler cap and see if your timing chain is lose.

also, Did you tune for the 3.5 intake? Put stock back on if you can and see if it idles, would eliminate some issues.
Originally Posted by rfinkle2 View Post
Do you have an AP?
So I just took this video and datalog, however when I was doing the datalog i just kept cranking it instead of giving it a break in between cranks I just cranked as soon as it died and a few times you can see in the logs it tried to stay running and it just killed itself. So maybe its just got a little bad gas or something from sitting so long?
Attached Files
File Type: csv datalog4.csv (68.6 KB, 5 views)
File Type: mp4 20140223_131658.mp4 (1.84 MB, 3 views)
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 Old 02-23-2014, 12:09 PM   #9
 
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This has to be related to your battery issue you were having. Do you have someone you could swap a battery with?
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 Old 02-23-2014, 12:12 PM   #10
 
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Originally Posted by rfinkle2 View Post
This has to be related to your battery issue you were having. Do you have someone you could swap a battery with?
Not that I know of around here. I just keep throwing it on the tender after every attempt to crank it so Im about to go crank it over again here in a min then Im going to to do a draw test on it.
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 Old 02-23-2014, 12:15 PM   #11
 
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Battery. It may be at a high enough voltage, but it's not producing enough current to crank the engine with the lights on. It's too weak.

Are all of your electrical connections in good shape? Battery, alternator, starter? What condition are your grounds in?
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 Old 02-23-2014, 12:24 PM   #12
 
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Originally Posted by btstarcher View Post
Battery. It may be at a high enough voltage, but it's not producing enough current to crank the engine with the lights on. It's too weak.

Are all of your electrical connections in good shape? Battery, alternator, starter? What condition are your grounds in?
yeah everything looks fine, and ive never had any of these problems until the extreme cold and the battery died so it has just sat since the end of December with the Battery on a tender. Just pisses me off that Advance Auto won't replace it because they say its ok.

What battery are you running in yours because this is the second autocraft gold 51r in a year and a half
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 Old 02-23-2014, 12:27 PM   #13
 
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Extreme cold does affect battery performance. What about taking it to a different store to have it tested? Also, are you in s 3 or a 6?
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 Old 02-23-2014, 12:31 PM   #14
 
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Originally Posted by btstarcher View Post
Extreme cold does affect battery performance. What about taking it to a different store to have it tested? Also, are you in s 3 or a 6?
3 shit I keep forgetting about my sig. I tried talking to the guy at autozone and he said they won't touch advances shit and I called another advance and the girl told me I can only get it replaced at the store I bought it from. Which I feel is complete bs
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 Old 02-23-2014, 12:35 PM   #15
 
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But you could still have it tested. I'm questioning the reliability of the tester. Are you sure nothing is loose? Did you perform any maintenance before this started? Install anything?
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 Old 02-23-2014, 12:42 PM   #16
 
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Originally Posted by btstarcher View Post
But you could still have it tested. I'm questioning the reliability of the tester. Are you sure nothing is loose? Did you perform any maintenance before this started? Install anything?
nope I have went through and tightened everything and no maintenance at all just got cold as shit and hard to start and then one day it just died so if anything I think I may have left something on in the car or there is a parasitic draw. And after they told me the battery was good and charged the cca was just a little low from then on this is how its acted. But like I said its sat since the end of December when the battery was removed to go have it tested.
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 Old 02-23-2014, 12:47 PM   #17
 
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Mine died a couple times, it still works fine. One time something in my hatch shifted and turned on that little light back there; I was at work for 3 days so didn't drive anywhere. Shit was dead. In any case, I'd say maybe drain it a couple more times and charge it up again, then take it back. Maybe it was just borderline and that will push it over the threshold.
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 Old 02-23-2014, 01:59 PM   #18
 
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Originally Posted by btstarcher View Post
Mine died a couple times, it still works fine. One time something in my hatch shifted and turned on that little light back there; I was at work for 3 days so didn't drive anywhere. Shit was dead. In any case, I'd say maybe drain it a couple more times and charge it up again, then take it back. Maybe it was just borderline and that will push it over the threshold.
Just got it to start and drove it around for about 30 miles seems to be ok battery volts stayed around 14.2-14.3 so alternator is ok. My trims are a little wonky and it bogs a little bit but im just going to keep driving and refill maybe get new plugs because when I cleaned them they were shit so all looks well. Now for a draw test and back on the tender just in case.
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 Old 02-23-2014, 05:09 PM   #19
 
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Could be battery sulfation. It can happen to batterys. The alternator will show that it is charging within spec but it is just a surface charge. If that is the case then you need a new battery. Battery sulfation can happen to commuters that drive there car everyday then leave it parked for the weekend or 2 days. Then when they try to start it, it won't start. But when they try to test it the alternator says it's charging it just fine. If you test your car with a new battery and there is not a problem then my bet is battery sulfation.

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 Old 02-23-2014, 05:21 PM   #20
 
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If you're in cold weather enough of the time that your running a bigger classed battery and ate still having problems you could look into a battery heater or whatever they are called.

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 Old 02-23-2014, 05:25 PM   #21
 
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Originally Posted by Orangatang View Post
Could be battery sulfation. It can happen to batterys. The alternator will show that it is charging within spec but it is just a surface charge. If that is the case then you need a new battery. Battery sulfation can happen to commuters that drive there car everyday then leave it parked for the weekend or 2 days. Then when they try to start it, it won't start. But when they try to test it the alternator says it's charging it just fine. If you test your car with a new battery and there is not a problem then my bet is battery sulfation.

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Oh no shit ill look into it because thats exactly what happens I drive it all week park it for a few days then back at it. And it just so happens that it want to be -20 for a fuckin week here. Normally its never that cold here in Columbus but ill definitely look into it.

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 Old 02-23-2014, 05:57 PM   #22
 
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Like I said if it's like that it's probability holding a surface charge which is short term. Another way to test if that is it. Let's say you park the car on Friday evening and don't drive it till Monday. Disconnect the negative side of the battery Friday evening. Connect it back Monday morning. If it starts it might not be the battery then. I'll post again after I get home from work about it also.

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 Old 02-23-2014, 06:39 PM   #23
 
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I was thinking about a relay but that's not it.
I don't know much about the battery blankets/warmers. \
I would give that disconnecting the negative for the 2 days or whatever it is then re connect it. See what happens.
Good luck. Sorry I can't be much more help.
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 Old 02-23-2014, 06:43 PM   #24
 
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Originally Posted by Orangatang View Post
I was thinking about a relay but that's not it.
I don't know much about the battery blankets/warmers. \
I would give that disconnecting the negative for the 2 days or whatever it is then re connect it. See what happens.
Good luck. Sorry I can't be much more help.
Oh its all good man I may give that a try I have it on a tender right now, ill go ahead and pull that cable tomorrow since its supposed to be cold as shit again with snow so I don't plan on driving so ill see what happens.

Also has there been a fuel injector cleaner that anyone has used that works, I know a while back they were said to be worthless or shouldn't be used can't remember but figure since it sat it probably wouldn't be a bad idea as well as the new plugs I just ordered

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 Old 02-23-2014, 07:06 PM   #25
 
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Originally Posted by Last_Loser View Post
Oh its all good man I may give that a try I have it on a tender right now, ill go ahead and pull that cable tomorrow since its supposed to be cold as shit again with snow so I don't plan on driving so ill see what happens.

Also has there been a fuel injector cleaner that anyone has used that works, I know a while back they were said to be worthless or shouldn't be used can't remember but figure since it sat it probably wouldn't be a bad idea as well as the new plugs I just ordered

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The tender should be a cycle tender which will work with a good battery.
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 Old 03-01-2014, 01:34 PM   #26
 
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Any updates?

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 Old 03-01-2014, 01:42 PM   #27
 
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Originally Posted by Orangatang View Post
Any updates?

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Eh I eventually got it started drove it for a bit fuel trims were shit....sitting in it right now trying to get it to start just threw a p050 not sure wtf that is...but it starts an runs like shit then dies then starts runs shitty a little less then dies then starts and idles fine....maybe o2? Have new plugs here tomorrow.

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 Old 03-07-2014, 08:09 AM   #28
 
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Ok so I put new plugs in and have an optima battery and a primary O2 on the way hopefully this fixes it. I also seen a thread yesterday from like two years ago someone did a rebuild and posted a video of his car doing exactly what mine is doing. However before I got to read all of it I had to step away from my computer and now I can't find the thread again, anyone know what one im talking about.....BT and full engine build?

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 Old 03-07-2014, 09:14 AM   #29
 
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P050 isn't a valid code....?
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 Old 03-07-2014, 09:25 AM   #30
 
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Originally Posted by btstarcher View Post
P050 isn't a valid code....?
The dashhawk throws it for the primary o2 apparently although mazdas code is different. Someone else had this code thrown and a primary fixed it. And when searching the code I have seen on other forums for different cars this code ends up being the primary o2 so I figured fuck it a rockauto sensor is $88 and I haven't replaced the stock ones so might as well

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 Old 03-09-2014, 09:07 AM   #31
 
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A bit behind the progress you made but versus a warming blanket, in the future if you believe cold is causing definite battery problems, bring your battery inside for a few hours. Top it off on a charger and leave it inside overnight and put it in your car the next morning. This puts the battery at a warm temperature so the acid/water mixture isn't a cause for error.
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 Old 03-17-2014, 12:47 AM   #32
 
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Ok so new battery new primary o2 new pcv, can't find boost leaks, cleaned maf and it still doing it..if I jump it I can eventually get it to start let it run until it gets warm I can shut it off and crank it right back over and it runs. I dont understand it! It just doesn't make sense that a cold start won't happen but a start when its warm is perfect starts up on first crank. Another thing is at idle my left are like 16.7 and then just a little bit of throttle my stft hit 25 to me sounds like a vacuum leak but enough to not start the car cold?

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 Old 03-17-2014, 03:35 PM   #33
 
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Your O2 sensor was probably fine. Use your AP and get the actual code if possible, and also post a datalog.
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 Old 03-17-2014, 04:40 PM   #34
 
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It was throwing a P050B but I just flashed my previous map back on it and its fine now

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