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 Old 04-26-2014, 03:41 AM   #1
 
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Default Very low oil pressure

So I did a timing job on my car. I have done it multiple times on other cars and finally finished my car. I also did the spin on conversion with the sandwich plate for an oil pressure and temperature gauge while the car was down. That was all I did that has anything to do with the oil system.
Now for the issue, I am having extremely low oil pressure, low enough that the dummy light on the dash pops up at idle. I am not sure if the gauge is even correct at this point so what it says is null in my mind. I removed the sandwich plate and put the spin on filter directly on how is would normally be on without the plate. So I eliminated the possibility of the plate being the issue. Once I took the plate off I started the car and let it get up to temperature and now all of a sudden the oil pressure light comes on again at idle. I am popping one code P0012: A Camshaft Position - Timing Over-Retarded (Bank 1). I did read through this thread P0012 CEL Code and what Philly B posted I can no longer read. I am at a loss on what could be my issue with the low oil pressure. I have always ran Rotella t6 until this spring when I switched to Royal Purple 5w-30 because it has a better rating with running ethanol. That could also be the issue and I could just put the heavier weight oil in and may be fine but I don't want to put a band-aid over something more serious.
Now my question. Is there anything else the issue can be other than timing. I have not pulled the fuel pump off yet to see if everything lines up perfect still as I am still convinced its not the timing. The car runs absolutely perfect and doesn't miss a beat. The tune I am on right now is a base baby tune to get me going to make sure everything is running as it should and is only boosting to spring pressure. I did do a few logs and then after the logs the oil pressure light came on. once the oil pressure light came on the car was parked. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks guys I am at kind of a loss with this one.

EDIT: Also I have checked the oil level and the car is not burning, consuming, or leaking any oil at all. Everything has sealed right up. I am going to go out and check the timing as I feel that is the next step.

Update: I have now put the engine at TDC with the tdc pin and everything lines up perfectly. The only thing I can think of is the VVT actuator is either bad or not lined up correctly. Does anyone have any pictures of insight as to how the VVT actuator should be lined up when the car is at TDC? I copied the position of the old actuator onto the new one but maybe just maybe the actuator is lined up incorrectly. Here is a picture of the actuator at TDC:
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 Old 04-28-2014, 09:46 AM   #2
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its infinatley more possible that you messed up when you removed the chain from oil pump or something wrong with oil pump chain tensioner or chain guides. you need to get a actual oil pressure gauge to see what the pressure really is.

the pressure sensor could have been damaged when you switched to spin on so the two things i would do next is get a pressure gauge and a new pressure sensor to test with

you can also take off the oil pan(drain oil into a container to keep it and re use) and check the oil pump for chain issues.

I warn you that just because the car seems to run fine i would park it until you settle this issue its not worth fucking up your bearings or turbo over this

the VVT cannot be lined up incorrectly it goes on any direction in relation to the cam, I made a huge thread about this previously there is no markings on the came for the vvt it goes on any way. so as long as the cams are in, the ocv is in and all the fittings are correct on the spin on i dont know where your issue would be thats why i would verify what the pressure is and try new pressure sensor

on regular 5w-30 oil i would see about 25-35 psi of oil pressure on turbo oil feed.

now with 5W-40 t6 i see 28-38 when it gets fully warm it can still see pressures around what 5w-30 runs
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 Old 04-28-2014, 09:55 AM   #3
 
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Originally Posted by Nitr0EngiE View Post
its infinatley more possible that you messed up when you removed the chain from oil pump or something wrong with oil pump chain tensioner or chain guides. you need to get a actual oil pressure gauge to see what the pressure really is.

the pressure sensor could have been damaged when you switched to spin on so the two things i would do next is get a pressure gauge and a new pressure sensor to test with

you can also take off the oil pan(drain oil into a container to keep it and re use) and check the oil pump for chain issues.

I warn you that just because the car seems to run fine i would park it until you settle this issue its not worth fucking up your bearings or turbo over this

the VVT cannot be lined up incorrectly it goes on any direction in relation to the cam, I made a huge thread about this previously there is no markings on the came for the vvt it goes on any way. so as long as the cams are in, the ocv is in and all the fittings are correct on the spin on i dont know where your issue would be thats why i would verify what the pressure is and try new pressure sensor
Thank you sir. Yes the car has been parked. I have a beater so I will Park it toll I figure it out. I ordered a new oil pump just to replace it while I'm in there. I was told I'll have to redo the timing. Is this true or can I get the oil pump out without taking the timing cover off and messing up the timing?

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 Old 04-28-2014, 11:19 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by pmartz16 View Post
Thank you sir. Yes the car has been parked. I have a beater so I will Park it toll I figure it out. I ordered a new oil pump just to replace it while I'm in there. I was told I'll have to redo the timing. Is this true or can I get the oil pump out without taking the timing cover off and messing up the timing?

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there is no way you will get the oil pump installed without removing crank pulley and timing cover. but you should be able to replace it without taking the timing chain off(but you regardless will still need to re time with new crank bolt). go ahead and order a new oil pump tension er while your there you will need a new crank bolt again and 3 new diamond washers and a new cam sprocket lock washer and cam bolt for the sprocket.

also it is very very very likely your oil pickup is clogged or dirty and causing all of this. before you beak timing i would drain oil pull off oil pan(yes this can be done with timing cover on i just did it a few times) use multiple flat head screw drivers and slowly work(hammer one in easily, then start hammering in another in a different spot, then another in another spot, then go back around and work them in farther until pulling on them drops the pan) them in the various spots you can on oil pan and drive them deeper until the oil pan cracks free. DO NOT try to do it all from one point or corner or it will simply break something wether its the oil pan or screw driver you must pry from multiple spots a little at a time.

take off the oil pickup( i replaced mine for safety) it could have a bad seal with the o ring going to the pump or better yet you forgot to put the seal at all it may of fallen off if you removed pickup tube, the pickup could be bent/warped where it seals to oil pump. this is an extremely viable possibility and concern as I have never recalled anyone having a oil pump actually die on our engine. the oil pickup has a screen in it and they catch massive amounts of shit might want to replace or clean it

the more and more i read your symptoms it also makes me wonder if there is something wrong with your OCV if its dirty or not connected or something in the oil passage for it, but that being clogged would increase pressure not make it low so thats really confusing.

Edit: before you check or remove anything get an oil pressure gauge, remove the stock oil pres sensor and read the oil pressure with the gauge and see what it says. on a cold start weith 5w-40 T6 should see minimum of 40 psi

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 Old 04-28-2014, 11:30 AM   #5
 
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hmm true. I have an oil pump, new washers, crank bolt all coming in the mail. I will drop the oil pan and check the pickup. I never even thought about that. The whole thing is confusing me as I am positive I did the timing correct and I checked everything, every step five times before I made it permanent. I will do the oil pan right now just to check. Will check back in a little bit!
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 Old 04-28-2014, 12:08 PM   #6
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if u haz low oil pressure its either

a) innacurate reading (hook up a mechanical oil p gauge its easy enough and u wanna see around 10psi per 1k rpm more or less)
b) pump took a shit
c) pick up is sucking up air
d) wherever the pressure is measured there is an obstruction (which would could make it read high if its not a severe obstruction or make it read low if its a large enough obstruction)


good luck ninja
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 Old 04-28-2014, 12:35 PM   #7
 
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Well I took off the oil pan before I saw your edit @Nitr0EngiE; and took off the pickup and it doesn't seem to be very dirty. I cleaned the whole thing sprayed it out with cleaner and am letting it dry now before I put it back in. the oil pan didn't have any leaks and came off perfect. the oil pump to pickup o-ring seems to look perfect nothing is warped either. I just had the spin on conversion off yesterday and looked for any blockages with the pressure sensors and everything. I have the MTX innovate oil pressure and temp gauge and it says the oil is very hot and the pressure is very low and it slowly climbs to no higher than 20 psi. the gauge sensors are in a prosport sandwich plate between the filter and the filter housing. the oil pump looks good and spins with the crank as is should.
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 Old 04-28-2014, 12:39 PM   #8
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then your next easiest diagnosis at this point might be to replace the pump and tensioner. does the oil pump chain have slop, i mean really if the chain had an issue the fail would be worse.

i feel if you had caused a clog up by the OCV it would not lower the pressure for the whole motor like your seeing. so the blockage IF any is in the lower units so it is looking more like a failed oil pump.

I wonder if the rotella T6 could have aided in a failed pump. its just weird this would come up the same time you did a VVT job but i see this shit happen all the time in the real world with computers and other things. bring it in to get fixed and find 3 other issues un related. its just shitty timing for having the issue at the same point of resolving the other.
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 Old 04-28-2014, 12:42 PM   #9
 
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Originally Posted by Nitr0EngiE View Post
then your next easiest diagnosis at this point might be to replace the pump and tensioner. does the oil pump chain have slop, i mean really if the chain had an issue the fail would be worse.

i feel if you had caused a clog up by the OCV it would not lower the pressure for the whole motor like your seeing. so the blockage IF any is in the lower units so it is looking more like a failed oil pump.
damn that sucks haha. Well I have the stuff coming to replace it anyway which is good but sucks at the same time. The dummy light on the dash comes on at running temp idle and then goes away when any throttle is added. Everyone that I talk to keeps coming to the conclusion that the pump is bad.
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 Old 04-28-2014, 12:44 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by pmartz16 View Post
damn that sucks haha. Well I have the stuff coming to replace it anyway which is good but sucks at the same time. The dummy light on the dash comes on at running temp idle and then goes away when any throttle is added. Everyone that I talk to keeps coming to the conclusion that the pump is bad.
yes with the way your describing that it sounds like the pump took a shit and im just glad you got the warning of the idiot light instead of a total pump failure and severe damage. when I built my motor I went ahead and put in a brand new pump to avoid these possible issues. as stated before just shitty coincidence and timing for it to happen when you did vvt.

i just dont remember many people ever having a pump failure. how long were you running T6, i just switched to T6 and the concept seems great for the higher standard diesel oil but I fear running the higher weight will stress the system to failure.
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 Old 04-28-2014, 12:47 PM   #11
 
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Originally Posted by Nitr0EngiE View Post
yes with the way your describing that it sounds like the pump took a shit and im just glad you got the warning of the idiot light instead of a total pump failure and severe damage. when I built my motor I went ahead and put in a brand new pump to avoid these possible issues. as stated before just shitty coincidence and timing for it to happen when you did vvt.

i just dont remember many people ever having a pump failure. how long were you running T6, i just switched to T6 and the concept seems great for the higher standard diesel oil but I fear running the higher weight will stress the system to failure.
I have been running t6 for over 40k miles. I just this winter switched to rp as it has better reviews with running ethanol. Guess I shouldn't change shit unless it's not working Haha. But I will be doing the timing again as soon as the parts get here. I am planning on putting in a new pump pick up and everything with the built motor but that motor isn't going in or going to be even remotely ready till next winter.

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 Old 05-02-2014, 10:42 AM   #12
 
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Well a little update. I swapped out the oil pump, checked the spin on conversion for blockage, made sure everything was sealed up, cleaned the oil feed, and redid the timing and checked everything with the timing 15 times before making anything permanent. As of now the oil pressure light has not come back on.
My gauge is still acting funky though, the oil pressure is being read on the temp portion of the gauge and the oil temp on the pressure portion. So I still have to figure that out.
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 Old 05-04-2014, 09:06 AM   #13
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that was fast, sounds like you got the sensors connected wrong to the gauge ?
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 Old 05-04-2014, 09:09 AM   #14
 
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Originally Posted by Nitr0EngiE View Post
that was fast, sounds like you got the sensors connected wrong to the gauge ?
Yeah I ordered parts as soon as someone mentioned the pump. And the gauge is still messed up. I'm not sure what's going on with it. I think it may be messed up itself.

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 Old 05-04-2014, 09:17 AM   #15
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Not for nothing but if u look at my original advice the FIRST thing u should have done is hooked up a mechanical oil pressure gauge to get accurate readings ..... Everything else shoulda been done afterwards
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Originally Posted by pmartz16 View Post
Well a little update. I swapped out the oil pump, checked the spin on conversion for blockage, made sure everything was sealed up, cleaned the oil feed, and redid the timing and checked everything with the timing 15 times before making anything permanent. As of now the oil pressure light has not come back on.
My gauge is still acting funky though, the oil pressure is being read on the temp portion of the gauge and the oil temp on the pressure portion. So I still have to figure that out.
So would you say the oil pump was bad?
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 Old 06-20-2016, 07:04 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by BuddySpeed3 View Post
So would you say the oil pump was bad?
random 2 year thread necro
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 Old 06-20-2016, 04:11 PM   #18
 
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Originally Posted by MS3Shadow View Post
random 2 year thread necro
Haha yeah I know
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 Old 06-26-2016, 01:45 PM   #19
 
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Yes it was. I put a new one in and it was good after that.
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