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 Old 09-25-2012, 08:03 PM   #201
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bro. its an open OS. it EVOLVED. unlike iOS...

and fuck, because it doesn't have a physical keyboard taking up half the front, it means apple is the reason we have full screen phones? give me a break.

oh, and did you know the rest of the world uses smartphones? lets talk worldwide numbers.
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 Old 09-25-2012, 08:03 PM   #202
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Originally Posted by DiGi Faggot View Post




Apple doesn't see Android as a threat. To be honest, Android isn't a threat to Apple. Have you not seen the sales news on the iPhone 5? It takes all the Android devices combine to topple Apple's marketshare. Apple is pissed off and rightfully so. Because Android wasn't supposed to be what it was today; it wasn't until Apple's Board Members who were for Google saw the iPhone that Android changed into what became the G1. Without the iPhone Android would not be what it is today. Don't believe me? Look at the Google Sooner.





FANBOY. Tbh, thats a unfair comparison. America is no longer MFGing Capital of the world. We need to accept that and move on. We simply dont have the people nor resources to compete with countries like China. We're now becoming the design, concept, and creation capital. But sadly only because we have the tools and the artists. We could be doing much better but we're not.

Apple doesn't seem android as a threat? Bullshit they don't... Android is a huge threat to apple and its going to get worse here in 2013.

As far as calling me a fanboy... Samsung hd tv's are nice... They also have one of the best advanced service menu for screen calibration out there. They also stand by their tv's if any issue arises, even out of warranty.

Samsung just invested $4billion into Austin Texas building a new design factory in August. What the fuck is Apple doing? Yes, hiding their cash offshore and pushing as much as they can to china and overcharging for it here.
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 Old 09-25-2012, 08:30 PM   #203
 
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Originally Posted by Haltech View Post
Apple doesn't seem android as a threat? Bullshit they don't... Android is a huge threat to apple and its going to get worse here in 2013.

As far as calling me a fanboy... Samsung hd tv's are nice... They also have one of the best advanced service menu for screen calibration out there. They also stand by their tv's if any issue arises, even out of warranty.

Samsung just invested $4billion into Austin Texas building a new design factory in August. What the fuck is Apple doing? Yes, hiding their cash offshore and pushing as much as they can to china and overcharging for it here.
Android is no threat to Apple. Theres more than enough room at the top. Just look at all the iPhone 5 orders. You can believe what you want but the numbers dont support you.

As for Samsung TV's and their Warranty. HAHAHAHAHAHAHA I worked in warranty support for 2 years. I can't even count how many Samsung TV's failed due to the Power Supply and how many times Samsung didn't stand behind their customers. You thought Apple and their Antennagate was bad? Ha, This bordered the Xbox RROD. But instead of helping and fixing the TV's Samsung did little. Going so far as to have people close to Warranty end have their LCD's replaced with shitty LCD's that failed just outside warranty.

Yeah, I was the guy on the phone telling people to fuck off it wasn't covered.

DailyTech - Samsung to Pay Millions to Settle Lawsuits Over Mass LCD TV Failures

Originally Posted by 802MS3 View Post
bro. its an open OS. it EVOLVED. unlike iOS...

and fuck, because it doesn't have a physical keyboard taking up half the front, it means apple is the reason we have full screen phones? give me a break.

oh, and did you know the rest of the world uses smartphones? lets talk worldwide numbers.
This was before it was released. Android is open to people who subscribe to the alliance. With all the locked bootloaders.. I wouldn't consider that open. Infact, Shit, Android is an inch more open than Microsoft. Only difference is Android releases some code. Whether or not you can run that code on your device is up to your Hardware -> Phone MFG -> Carrier -> Country.

Plus, i'm not talking about the physical keyboard. Perhaps you missed the fact it is a complete rip-off of Blackberry at the time.
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 Old 09-25-2012, 08:52 PM   #204
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Originally Posted by DiGi Faggot View Post
Android is no threat to Apple. Theres more than enough room at the top. Just look at all the iPhone 5 orders. You can believe what you want but the numbers dont support you.

As for Samsung TV's and their Warranty. HAHAHAHAHAHAHA I worked in warranty support for 2 years. I can't even count how many Samsung TV's failed due to the Power Supply and how many times Samsung didn't stand behind their customers. You thought Apple and their Antennagate was bad? Ha, This bordered the Xbox RROD. But instead of helping and fixing the TV's Samsung did little. Going so far as to have people close to Warranty end have their LCD's replaced with shitty LCD's that failed just outside warranty.

Yeah, I was the guy on the phone telling people to fuck off it wasn't covered.

DailyTech - Samsung to Pay Millions to Settle Lawsuits Over Mass LCD TV Failures



This was before it was released. Android is open to people who subscribe to the alliance. With all the locked bootloaders.. I wouldn't consider that open. Infact, Shit, Android is an inch more open than Microsoft. Only difference is Android releases some code. Whether or not you can run that code on your device is up to your Hardware -> Phone MFG -> Carrier -> Country.

Plus, i'm not talking about the physical keyboard. Perhaps you missed the fact it is a complete rip-off of Blackberry at the time.
Find one company out there who doesn't have unsatisfied customers... Or stories from the Internet... Pathetic Chris, I expect more from you when it comes to debating. Lets not even talk about all the pissed off customers with thunderbolt displays that apple said fuck off too. Apple knows its flawed and continue to sell it.

My Samsung products have been trouble free..mall of them...
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 Old 09-25-2012, 09:07 PM   #205
 
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Originally Posted by Haltech View Post
Find one company out there who doesn't have unsatisfied customers... Or stories from the Internet... Pathetic Chris, I expect more from you when it comes to debating. Lets not even talk about all the pissed off customers with thunderbolt displays that apple said fuck off too. Apple knows its flawed and continue to sell it.

My Samsung products have been trouble free..mall of them...
I'm glad they've been trouble free.. But theres a wide difference between a niche product with a problem... and a product that every parent, grandparent, and well most consumers go to bestbuy to just buy.

Furthermore, theres an even bigger difference between a company like Apple who replaced the ENTIRE DISPLAY when its broke, and a company like Samsung who even knows the problem is continuing and turns around and replaces parts inside their displays with "refurbished parts". Which is code for other broken shit.

To compound issues even more, if you bring the display to a local apple store more times than not they'll replace it. Just look at all the threads on apple's forums.

Also, theres a HUGE difference between an a FIRST GENERATION product.. and an issue that occurs across ALL GENERATIONS of a product.

Apples to Apples Oranges to Oranges.


Theres also something to be said when you have to start a class-action lawsuit against the company for the company to admit something is wrong. Dont get me wrong, Apple's had their iPod lawsuits also. But they've learned from it.

These days it seems more and more like Samsung is ran by the mod. Legitimate cases of Price Fixing on LCDs, Refusal to Fix Broken TV's, Stealing IP and Software designs from other companies, copying other companies hardware, I mean Jesus... Have you seen Teizen? And you say Apple rips off Android.. Ha. The Samsung backed Teizen is a fucking copy of Android.

TV Capacitor Settlement Notices | Samsung USA
Design Defect Could Affect Millions Of Flat Screen TVs « CBS Boston
Samsung Settles Lawsuit, Will Repair Certain TV Models | News & Opinion | PCMag.com
More Than 7 Million Samsung TVs Plagued By Possible Power Defect « CBS Miami

Oh, and not to mention the new issues with the new Samsung Galaxy S, Galaxy Note, and Galaxy Nexus displays....

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 Old 09-26-2012, 04:35 AM   #206
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Originally Posted by DiGi Faggot View Post

FANBOY. Tbh, thats a unfair comparison. America is no longer MFGing Capital of the world. We need to accept that and move on. We simply dont have the people nor resources to compete with countries like China. We're now becoming the design, concept, and creation capital. But sadly only because we have the tools and the artists. We could be doing much better but we're not.
Actually, American manufacturing is rebounding as it is evolving. We will not be successful competing on cost for trinkets that have a very low cost of shipping and are labor intense to produce.

However, America is quite good at making difficult things that require lots of technical/scientific ability with processes that require highly skilled operators. (This is the realm in which I am employed).

These process depend heavily on trade secrets and patents. If we don't defend the patents, then we will get ripped off in no time in Asia.
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 Old 09-26-2012, 04:40 AM   #207
 
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I have a samsung refridgerator and washer and dryer and they are nice, except a bad design of the belt pulley in my dryer causes it to shred the belt and samsung knowing this instead of saying hey we'll replace they say no we want you to pay for the newly designed part.

As far as TV's go, I have a LG plasma and it is great, awesome picture quality and never had one issue with it, also have a Vizio LCD which I've never had one issue with either.
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 Old 09-26-2012, 04:41 AM   #208
 
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Originally Posted by cld12pk2go View Post
However, America is quite good at making difficult things that require lots of technical/scientific ability with processes that require highly skilled operators. (This is the realm in which I am employed).

These process depend heavily on trade secrets and patents. If we don't defend the patents, then we will get ripped off in no time in Asia.
Yes, but on a mass scale, America will never have that back. We may have the high skills, and may have the high-level jobs. But we will never have the mass market jobs. Huge Places like Foxconn will never exist inside the United States.
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 Old 09-26-2012, 06:33 AM   #209
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Originally Posted by DiGi Faggot View Post
This was before it was released. Android is open to people who subscribe to the alliance. With all the locked bootloaders.. I wouldn't consider that open. Infact, Shit, Android is an inch more open than Microsoft. Only difference is Android releases some code. Whether or not you can run that code on your device is up to your Hardware -> Phone MFG -> Carrier -> Country.

Plus, i'm not talking about the physical keyboard. Perhaps you missed the fact it is a complete rip-off of Blackberry at the time.
dude I'm really doubting you know much of what youre talking about. Only "releases some code?" Do you know what the Apache license actually entails? Its a quick read, because it really is basic. Apache License, Version 2.0 Knock yourself out. Basically, the source is there to do whatever you want with it, even reselling it (which you don't need to release the source for, which is where a lot of the OEM UI overlays come from, Touchwiz, Blur, Sense, etc, but regardless these are NOT AOSP Welcome to Android | Android Open Source). Locked bootloaders? Again, give me a break pal. This is the wireless carrier coming up with an excuse to scare off end users from having full control over their phones. Why do you think you need to jailbreak your iphone? Same shit. And buy a SAMSUNG phone, from anyone but a subsidized Verizon phone (you can get the SIII unlocked by paying full price), and the bootloader is unlocked. Even Motorola has put out a tool to unlock previously released phones (MOTODEV > Products > Bootloader).

You know what software license the Linux kernel is released under? The GPL. What is the core of Android? The Linux kernel. What source code needs to be released whenever an OEM pushes a public update for their new version of Android? Yes, that is right, ALL OF IT, including hardware drivers. What this means is you can dump their shitty UI, and install Cyanogenmod, pure AOSP. And guess what? You do not need to use Google Apps to use the phone. Locked into the Alliance. lol. This one is a longer read: The GNU General Public License v3.0 - GNU Project - Free Software Foundation (FSF) and just because you need to learn more CyanogenMod | Android Community Rom based on Jelly Bean

And yes, I do believe Microsoft is more open than Apple. Shit their OS at least runs on different and common hardware...

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 Old 09-26-2012, 12:14 PM   #210
 
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 Old 09-26-2012, 12:17 PM   #211
 
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PC... because it makes more sense to me, used to it, etc. And because I fucking hate Mac's.

iPhone because free... and I honestly like the way it works.
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 Old 09-26-2012, 02:14 PM   #212
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 Old 09-26-2012, 02:30 PM   #213
 
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to each his own. i think iphone peeps like it more than android because its easy to navigate and has "some" functionality. its stable and is widely marketed as a Fad or trendy. Everyone wants to be the "cool" guy with the new iphone. I honestly love being able to do so much with just my 4.8 inch screen.
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 Old 09-26-2012, 07:05 PM   #214
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hey I just like being able to run 4.1 on my 2 year old first gen galaxy s
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 Old 09-26-2012, 11:50 PM   #215
 
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Originally Posted by 802MS3 View Post
dude I'm really doubting you know much of what youre talking about. Only "releases some code?" Do you know what the Apache license actually entails? Its a quick read, because it really is basic. Apache License, Version 2.0 Knock yourself out. Basically, the source is there to do whatever you want with it, even reselling it (which you don't need to release the source for, which is where a lot of the OEM UI overlays come from, Touchwiz, Blur, Sense, etc, but regardless these are NOT AOSP Welcome to Android | Android Open Source). Locked bootloaders? Again, give me a break pal. This is the wireless carrier coming up with an excuse to scare off end users from having full control over their phones. Why do you think you need to jailbreak your iphone? Same shit. And buy a SAMSUNG phone, from anyone but a subsidized Verizon phone (you can get the SIII unlocked by paying full price), and the bootloader is unlocked. Even Motorola has put out a tool to unlock previously released phones (MOTODEV > Products > Bootloader).

You know what software license the Linux kernel is released under? The GPL. What is the core of Android? The Linux kernel. What source code needs to be released whenever an OEM pushes a public update for their new version of Android? Yes, that is right, ALL OF IT, including hardware drivers. What this means is you can dump their shitty UI, and install Cyanogenmod, pure AOSP. And guess what? You do not need to use Google Apps to use the phone. Locked into the Alliance. lol. This one is a longer read: The GNU General Public License v3.0 - GNU Project - Free Software Foundation (FSF) and just because you need to learn more CyanogenMod | Android Community Rom based on Jelly Bean
Apache license does not require release of source code. Only requires the license to be distributed/included. It says MAY not MUST like in the GPL. Which means a MFG can make a Derivative and never release source code. Thats not very open now is it?
4. Redistribution. You may reproduce and distribute copies of the Work or Derivative Works thereof in any medium, with or without modifications, and in Source or Object form, provided that You meet the following conditions:
Secondly, Unless theres a special Google requirement. The GPLv2 License in which the Kernel is licensed under has no requirement for MFGs to release their Drivers. Simply look @ Nvidia's support for Linux. Mostly Closed Source. Which pisses Linus Torvald off to no end.

Yes, I'm well aware of the Jailbreak and Locked bootloader reasons. The Jailbreak is because Apple wants to keep their shit locked down. Really has little to do with Carriers. Apple has told carriers to fuck off many times around, on many things. They have that kind of clout. Theres tons of Android devices a carrier can get; But only one iPhone. Apple actually speaks ill about Jailbreakers.

As for Carriers.. Sure they may request/demand/want that. But lets be honest here. All it takes is a MFG to release a bootloader; which will no doubt be exploited nearly immediately. Then just refuse and don't fix it?

Yes, Motorola, HTC, Samsung, most of the big wigs have the option to unlock boot loaders. But only under certain circumstances. For example, my HTC One X from ATT will never be unlocked by HTC because ATT has asked for it. But other HTC Devices do come with a locked bootloader which when unlocked voids warranty.

Which brings me to my next point. Selling a phone with a bootloader locked and then allow unlock to void the warranty is BS. Thats not open at all. Thats punishing people for being open. Its like saying "We have to do this for X Reason... BUT YOU'RE PAYING FOR IT!"

But that of course is assuming that you are even given the option to unlock the boot loader.

You may think i'm full of shit. Thats fine, frankly IDGAF. I'm the one with my head in source code every night, working with tens of platforms. I don't need your approval, and i'm intimately aware of Cyanogen Mod.

But Alas, Perhaps you'll listen to the GNU? Android and Users' Freedom - GNU Project - Free Software Foundation
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 Old 09-27-2012, 05:04 AM   #216
 
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looks like there is another feud with samsung but not involving apple. LG Display countersues Samsung over OLED patent infringement -- Engadget
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 Old 09-27-2012, 07:02 AM   #217
 
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yeah, i figure everyone will want to start attacking everyone else. kick em while their down.
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 Old 09-27-2012, 07:27 AM   #218
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this is gonna be fun.

Originally Posted by DiGi Faggot View Post
Apache license does not require release of source code. Only requires the license to be distributed/included. It says MAY not MUST like in the GPL. Which means a MFG can make a Derivative and never release source code. Thats not very open now is it?
Google releases the source under Apache. This means the source is open. Manufacturers can do whateverthefucktheywant with the source (of Android), and yes, they do not need to release the source for any modifications that they do. This is why I CHOOSE to abandon the stock Touchwiz Samsung rom on my phone, because there is zero source available for it. This is what separates it from Apple/iOS; I have a choice to do that.

Originally Posted by DiGi Faggot View Post
Secondly, Unless theres a special Google requirement. The GPLv2 License in which the Kernel is licensed under has no requirement for MFGs to release their Drivers. Simply look @ Nvidia's support for Linux. Mostly Closed Source. Which pisses Linus Torvald off to no end.
You are correct. In a lot of cases, drivers (especially for specific phone functions like GPS, radio, sensors, etc), are developed as kernel modules. In the GPL, there is no specific part that addresses releasing the source of external kernel modules. The kernel links to these, but there is zero change to the kernel itself. The source of the kernel is still released, along with links to the blobs/drivers that the manufacturer provides. Unfortunately, thats just the way it is. Hardware manufacturers have to maintain their competitive edge, and if they just start releasing code for everything about their proprietary hardware, apple would just steal it trolololol. I kid.

Linus has made statements on this, and basically has said as long as it doesn't touch the kernel itself, then its fine. He doesn't like it, but its not a blocker.

Originally Posted by DiGi Faggot View Post
Yes, I'm well aware of the Jailbreak and Locked bootloader reasons. The Jailbreak is because Apple wants to keep their shit locked down. Really has little to do with Carriers. Apple has told carriers to fuck off many times around, on many things. They have that kind of clout. Theres tons of Android devices a carrier can get; But only one iPhone. Apple actually speaks ill about Jailbreakers.

As for Carriers.. Sure they may request/demand/want that. But lets be honest here. All it takes is a MFG to release a bootloader; which will no doubt be exploited nearly immediately. Then just refuse and don't fix it?

Yes, Motorola, HTC, Samsung, most of the big wigs have the option to unlock boot loaders. But only under certain circumstances. For example, my HTC One X from ATT will never be unlocked by HTC because ATT has asked for it. But other HTC Devices do come with a locked bootloader which when unlocked voids warranty.
Unfortunately, for Android it seems to have a lot to do with the carriers. Its just a way to deter the basic moron from "bricking" his/her phone and running to VZ/AT&T support. But we can vote with our wallets, and avoid buying devices that are locked down, because not all of them are. I get that Apple can do what they want because they are the latest fashion trend and everyone ones one.

Originally Posted by DiGi Faggot View Post
Which brings me to my next point. Selling a phone with a bootloader locked and then allow unlock to void the warranty is BS. Thats not open at all. Thats punishing people for being open. Its like saying "We have to do this for X Reason... BUT YOU'RE PAYING FOR IT!"

But that of course is assuming that you are even given the option to unlock the boot loader.
Its not hard to flash back to stock, even if you leave the bootloader unlocked. 9 times out of 10 if you go in with a phone that has a real warranty issue, they don't look twice at what is even installed on the phone, and just hand you a new phone.

Originally Posted by DiGi Faggot View Post
You may think i'm full of shit. Thats fine, frankly IDGAF. I'm the one with my head in source code every night, working with tens of platforms. I don't need your approval, and i'm intimately aware of Cyanogen Mod.

But Alas, Perhaps you'll listen to the GNU? Android and Users' Freedom - GNU Project - Free Software Foundation
First, its CyanogenMod

The parts about hardware drivers not being released with source is very true. Like I said earlier, its the nature of the beast. Companies would get ripped off very quickly (not talking about rounded corners here). Android has a bit to go before its truely "open." This still doesn't take away from the fact that Android is unprecedented when it comes to freedom on a phone, something that is a stark contrast of Apple and almost every way it does business.

Stallman has a lot of great thoughts and ideas, but I throw him into the same mix that I view people that think abortion should be illegal in all cases. I get that there is a need for propreitary software in a lot of cases, he does not.

Just for kicks, here is the script from CyanogenMod that pulls all of the binary hardware blobs needed from the GNex stock rom.

https://github.com/CyanogenMod/andro...tract-files.sh
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 Old 09-27-2012, 08:25 AM   #219
 
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So, you basically just agreed with me with everything I said and that Android isn't really open.

Android isn't open unless you have the Galaxy Nexus (Or Google Flagship Phone) with an Unlocked Bootloader.

Because frankly.. Getting MFGs/Carriers to comply with shit doesn't always work.
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 Old 09-27-2012, 11:00 AM   #220
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Originally Posted by DiGi Faggot View Post
So, you basically just agreed with me with everything I said and that Android isn't really open.

Android isn't open unless you have the Galaxy Nexus (Or Google Flagship Phone) with an Unlocked Bootloader.

Because frankly.. Getting MFGs/Carriers to comply with shit doesn't always work.
no. I'm comparing the openness to Apple. and by that comparison, android blows apple away. we have never had an option for a phone that is as open as Android. Period.

Thats not to say there is no progress to be made. You are about as closed minded as Apple, and I can see why you are such a fanboi.
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 Old 09-27-2012, 09:58 PM   #221
 
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I have had the HTC G1 (best phone ever) and now the HTC Incredible and both ran cyanogen. I flashed radios until I found one that gave me best signal. The one time I had a problem with my incredible Verizon didn't even look at my phone. It was the headphone jack bug. I spent a few hours converting it back to stock for no reason, they just mailed me a phone overnight...

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 Old 09-27-2012, 11:44 PM   #222
 
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Originally Posted by 802MS3 View Post
no. I'm comparing the openness to Apple. and by that comparison, android blows apple away. we have never had an option for a phone that is as open as Android. Period.

Thats not to say there is no progress to be made. You are about as closed minded as Apple, and I can see why you are such a fanboi.
Actually I was comparing Android to Microsoft when I said it really wasn't that open... I never said iOS was as open as Apple. Thats a no brainer.

Fanboi? Hardly. If anyones a fanboi its all the people defending android to the death.
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