The best thread on MSF

[WWPearlMS6]

Originally Posted by 06Speed6 The short answer is that no one actually knows, the injectors can be ported for up to 25% additional flow for ~$1300/set but you would still be short of 800awhp.

06Speed6

Do we have a guesstimate?! Or a range at least?

And could you point me in the direction for more information on this Ported Injectors, and roughly guesstimately where this would put me for AWHP Fuel wise?

Many Thanks, If I could hug you Marcus I would =) (Cyber Hugs Marcus - No Homo)

~JaKe

[06Speed6]

With a fuel pressure upgrade you might be able to hit 500hp, with stock pressure maybe 400-450 depending on a number of factors. With the +25% injectors and max everything maybe 650hp but at that hp range the cdfp might become a factor.

[WWPearlMS6]

Originally Posted by 06Speed6 With a fuel pressure upgrade you might be able to hit 500hp, with stock pressure maybe 400-450 depending on a number of factors. With the +25% injectors and max everything maybe 650hp but at that hp range the cdfp might become a factor.

And where do we buy these injector upgrades?

[86azms3]

Move to Himalayas, make like a corrected 1000whp on stock fueling easy.

[Enki]

Originally Posted by WWPearlMS6 And where do we buy these injector upgrades?

You can't. Only one person has upgraded injectors, and the company that did them said they would never do another set again.

[pzr2874]

Wtf.. figures^

[Tokay444]

Ptp is hard at work trying to modify the stock injectors.
Erich, and word on progress with that?

[WWPearlMS6]

Originally Posted by Enki You can't. Only one person has upgraded injectors, and the company that did them said they would never do another set again.

Maybe if we drum up enough people it will make them change mind? And who is the forum member with upgraded injectors?

Originally Posted by Tokay444 Ptp is hard at work trying to modify the stock injectors. Erich, and word on progress with that?

Yes yes, conversation was actually interesting was John was in here. Erich any updates as well?

HPFPUPGRADE - Can you tell us your progress, oh wait. . . Three morons wanted him banned so I guess he can't really say shit now can he SMH

~JaKe

[jracer]

WWpearlms6......why you keep beating the dead horse with the upgraded injectors ?? just get DJ's 5th port fuel system and be done...

[WWPearlMS6]

Originally Posted by jracer WWpearlms6......why you keep beating the dead horse with the upgraded injectors ?? just get DJ's 5th port fuel system and be done...

Nothing will ever be as efficient, powerful, and clean as upgraded direct injectors. It is the difference between our cars and most, and where we get our awesome torque/power and good fuel efficiency all at the same time.

SO I found the old thread that elaborates on the one known upgraded injector kit made

It was whoosh@Realtune who bought them first and wrote about it

Than SSinstaller bought Whoosh's set.

The injectors were upgraded by a gentleman named David Deatsch WEBSTITE: http://www.deatschwerks.com/

Can you fellaz chime in on your experience with the upgraded ones and how they have been working and tuning with them etc. etc.

~JaKe

[Tokay444]

Deatschwerks is actually going to be the company that comes out with aftermarket injectors for us.
It's been a long time in the making, but at least they aren't taking anyone's money before they're finished.
This was confirmed by deatchwerks at a trade show.
A few members got to speak with them about the potentiality, and the answer was, "we're working on it."

[WWPearlMS6]

Originally Posted by Tokay444 Deatschwerks is actually going to be the company that comes out with aftermarket injectors for us. It's been a long time in the making, but at least they aren't taking anyone's money before they're finished. This was confirmed by deatchwerks at a trade show. A few members got to speak with them about the potentiality, and the answer was, "we're working on it."

Wow guy, way to hold out on us ! Everybody is thinking this is a dead horse and it is very much alive. I just gave them a call and they seem super chill and very nice. I told them how interested we are and that we are willing to work with them, even volunteering my car, services, and/or whatever.

He took my name number and email cause Dave stepped out for lunch today. But they are going to follow up with me very soon. I did inform them that time is of the essence with all that is being worked on if they wanted to maintain the market/be first.. it would need to be pushed to the front of the line. This looks promising though!

Meantime SSinstaller - Please chime in on your experiences and tuning with these injectors

Stay tuned for updates ! =)

~JaKe

[Tokay444]

It was common knowledge 6 months ago I thought...

[WWPearlMS6]

Originally Posted by Tokay444 It was common knowledge 6 months ago I thought...

It's okay, it was in those threads after digging for it so I need to up my search skills. I was just teasing you. But keep fingers crossed for us =)

~JaKe

[Tokay444]

If you wanna tease me, just tickle my arsehole with a feather. Eye contact is also important.

[WWPearlMS6]

Originally Posted by Tokay444 If you wanna tease me, just tickle my arsehole with a feather. Eye contact is also important.

Tickle Tickle Tickle (No Homo Of Course) <---Eye contact

~JaKe

[Domino81]

So I just stumbled on this this thread that's been deemed "the best" thread... what'd I miss?

[Enki]

Not much.

~JaKe

[SSinstaller]

Originally Posted by WWPearlMS6 Wow guy, way to hold out on us ! Everybody is thinking this is a dead horse and it is very much alive. I just gave them a call and they seem super chill and very nice. I told them how interested we are and that we are willing to work with them, even volunteering my car, services, and/or whatever. He took my name number and email cause Dave stepped out for lunch today. But they are going to follow up with me very soon. I did inform them that time is of the essence with all that is being worked on if they wanted to maintain the market/be first.. it would need to be pushed to the front of the line. This looks promising though! Meantime SSinstaller - Please chime in on your experiences and tuning with these injectors Stay tuned for updates ! =) ~JaKe

There was no specific tuning necessary for me to run the ported injectors. Either the porting wasn't very effective, or the ecm can effectively trim for the relatively small amount of extra fuel the porting actually provides..

IMO, the injectors I'm running are not worth what I paid for them.. I'm still stuck at the same 450whp that everyone else is seeing. I was able to get there without meth, but my entire fuel system is far from stock. So I really have no idea how much effect the injectors had on their own..

Unless we get some upgraded injectors that flow 100% more fuel than stock(and will still idle), the fifth port setup is going to be the most effective means of getting extra fuel..

As soon as funds allow(and I get my car back on the road), I'll be adding the fifth port setup...

[Dano]

Originally Posted by Tokay444 Deatschwerks is actually going to be the company that comes out with aftermarket injectors for us. It's been a long time in the making, but at least they aren't taking anyone's money before they're finished. This was confirmed by deatchwerks at a trade show. A few members got to speak with them about the potentiality, and the answer was, "we're working on it."

hahah

and JM Fab is "working" on producing Scotts' IM....long story short just spend the $700 or whatever DJs 5/6th port setup costs and call it a day...extremely flexible and tunable solution and probably better/cheaper than new DI injectors if you take the time to think about it. Almost constant washing of fuel over the valves depending on where you scale your MAF and start the 5th port injection. I haven't followed where those guys are starting the injection process but time will tell. You can take it a step further and spray 100% E on your 5th port as well with aux fuel cell and pumps, etc.

Lots of options.

anyway just my humble opinion

BTW I have a feather if you need it.

[duappleganger]

Originally Posted by WWPearlMS6 Tickle Tickle Tickle (No Homo Of Course) <---Eye contact ~JaKe

... your avatar leads me to believe otherwise

[WWPearlMS6]

Originally Posted by SSinstaller There was no specific tuning necessary for me to run the ported injectors. Either the porting wasn't very effective, or the ecm can effectively trim for the relatively small amount of extra fuel the porting actually provides.. IMO, the injectors I'm running are not worth what I paid for them.. I'm still stuck at the same 450whp that everyone else is seeing. I was able to get there without meth, but my entire fuel system is far from stock. So I really have no idea how much effect the injectors had on their own.. Unless we get some upgraded injectors that flow 100% more fuel than stock(and will still idle), the fifth port setup is going to be the most effective means of getting extra fuel.. As soon as funds allow(and I get my car back on the road), I'll be adding the fifth port setup...

Good info, thanks. Will bring up these concerns when they get back to me. Your's was a prototype so will see if this has been addressed and what is the status on the production version.

Originally Posted by Dano hahah and JM Fab is "working" on producing Scotts' IM....long story short just spend the $700 or whatever DJs 5/6th port setup costs and call it a day...extremely flexible and tunable solution and probably better/cheaper than new DI injectors if you take the time to think about it. Almost constant washing of fuel over the valves depending on where you scale your MAF and start the 5th port injection. I haven't followed where those guys are starting the injection process but time will tell. You can take it a step further and spray 100% E on your 5th port as well with aux fuel cell and pumps, etc. Lots of options. anyway just my humble opinion BTW I have a feather if you need it.

Good info. But at the end of the day, injector option is still best -yeah maybe more expensive too. It is good to know that we aren't without options as you say though. If absolutely necessary I'm sure this is the route I would take as meth is just not for me.

Originally Posted by duappleganger ... your avatar leads me to believe otherwise

I see, well I suppose if I was as ugly as you I would use the Flash as my Avatar as well =]

~JaKe

[Enki]

It's not the flash, its Ahnold.

Also you realize the stupidity of signing all your posts on an internet forum, right?

~JaKe

[PapaSmurf]

How can upgraded injectors be the best option when they havent even been proven on our platform?!?!

Untill we have upgraded injectors on the market that are making power... Dustins 5th port > all

[Dano]

Fully operational larger DI injectors are years away and here's why.

the 1st problem you're probably gonna have is idle quality. now maybe not and with some of the flexibility of altering CDFP pressure perhaps this can be overcome... perhaps not.

at the upper end, can the rail and associated items support the higher volume needed with the larger injectors. David @ cobb says there are numerous fuel pressure related tables that would need to be exposed and tweaked to upgrade the FP sensor to say a skyactiv, scale it and control fuel delivery. This is before we even start trying to control the actual injection event. The new injector latency scalar needs more work as do the fuel scalars/gravity setting for E85.

There are probably other things I can't think of off hand like can the ITFP and line to the CDFP support bigger DI injectors.

so to "hold out" for DI injectors AND getting them to work is going to be a very long wait IMO

DI/PI hybrid is our best short to medium term option.

Thats not to say to give up the goal but keep the reality in perspective

[WWPearlMS6]

Originally Posted by Enki It's not the flash, its Ahnold. Also you realize the stupidity of signing all your posts on an internet forum, right? ~JaKe

I suppose you could tell me just how stupid it is if you'd like, I just can't guarantee I'll give a Fu** what you think sweetpea =)

~JaKe

Originally Posted by PapaSmurf How can upgraded injectors be the best option when they havent even been proven on our platform?!?! Untill we have upgraded injectors on the market that are making power... Dustins 5th port > all

For upgraded injectors to be anything but the best option would be to say Mazda made a poor design in choosing direct injection in favor of port injection. Is that what you suggest, that Direct Injection is NOT the way of the future? Why is the amount of manufacturers switching to DI increasing year by year than hmmmm?

HP To HP - Direct Injection will always make more power than Port injection because it is simply more efficient, provides better fuel economy, and More Horsepower. What more would you like sir?

So our injectors, but even better....yes, is undoubtedly the best option.

Originally Posted by Dano Fully operational larger DI injectors are years away and here's why. the 1st problem you're probably gonna have is idle quality. now maybe not and with some of the flexibility of altering CDFP pressure perhaps this can be overcome... perhaps not. at the upper end, can the rail and associated items support the higher volume needed with the larger injectors. David @ cobb says there are numerous fuel pressure related tables that would need to be exposed and tweaked to upgrade the FP sensor to say a skyactiv, scale it and control fuel delivery. This is before we even start trying to control the actual injection event. The new injector latency scalar needs more work as do the fuel scalars/gravity setting for E85. There are probably other things I can't think of off hand like can the ITFP and line to the CDFP support bigger DI injectors. so to "hold out" for DI injectors AND getting them to work is going to be a very long wait IMO DI/PI hybrid is our best short to medium term option. Thats not to say to give up the goal but keep the reality in perspective

Dano my dude, you sir are a good guy. One of the good few posts coming out of here. But what you are essentially saying is that a good direct injectors are only going to be as good as our ability to control them.

I can almost positively assure you that if their were injectors to do just this, COBB would almost definitely have a tuning solution. I mean, what do you expect for them to develop the software support for something before the hardware is available for it? Not gonna happen. When the hardware is here, the software will be relatively cake for them.

The reality of it also is the more people that seek other alternatives for fuel may minimize our chances for injectors. If everyone upgrades to a different form of fueling that is less people interested or in need of injectors, which makes our "small" market/community even smaller, and our purchasing power minute.

And don't get me wrong 5th & 6th port is awesome, and if absolutely must be that is the road I will travel. DJ is putting a lot of hard work into it and it looks very promising. I'll again re-affirm that we are greatful and it will be sick. However, I would like to maintain Direct Injection for the obvious reasons stated above.

~JaKe

[Cheeto]

The last pic in the injector line up is by far how I want my to look.

[WWPearlMS6]

Originally Posted by Cheeto The last pic in the injector line up is by far how I want my to look.

I'm more of an ass man myself, but those are okay. Much preferred in person (Not actually a fan of strip joints either) But thats another day and another conversation !

Injectors we are talkin here Chester the Cheeto !

~JaKe

[duappleganger]

Originally Posted by WWPearlMS6 I see, well I suppose if I was as ugly as you I would use the Flash as my Avatar as well =]

It's Arnold Schwarzenegger from Jingle all the Way. Just get the 5th port man, or I'm sure you could have Racebuilt fab you up something, either way.

~JoSh

[WWPearlMS6]

Originally Posted by duappleganger It's Arnold Schwarzenegger from Jingle all the Way. Just get the 5th port man, or I'm sure you could have Racebuilt fab you up something, either way. ~JoSh

Don't remember asking who it was but thank you for letting me know ! I remember my first Christmas movie growing up...... Oh happy days =]

I appreciate your concern, and I'll place it in my own very personal suggestion box.

~JaKe - Your gettin the hang of it Toshooooooooooooo (Love that show) =)

[Enki]

Originally Posted by WWPearlMS6 I suppose you could tell me just how stupid it is if you'd like, I just can't guarantee I'll give a Fu** what you think sweetpea =) ~JaKe

You've just confirmed for everyone who ever reads this thread on how much of a pole smoker you really are.

[WWPearlMS6]

Originally Posted by Enki You've just confirmed for everyone who ever reads this thread on how much of a pole smoker you really are.

Thanks man. I really appreciate that. But could you do me and everyone else a favor? Could ya? Okay, well its small but I'll ask anyway. Could you direct all the dumba** comments toward my email cause your kinda clouding a thread with your irrelevant Shi*.

Email: Goaway89@gmail.com

If I don't respond just wait for it, I'm usually slow at reviewing my emails but I'll get back to you eventually.

To the rest of my party people in here, INJECTORS is what we're talkin ! =)

~JaKe

[Ziggo]

Have fun waiting. For injectors, for bigger HPFP, for controls in ATR.

In the meantime the rest of us will be making power.

Do you really think that nobody has tried before? That we are all incompetent?

Nothing is ever black and white, there are always tradeoffs. Have you ever looked at the injection window at your 8000rpm? Your valves? Thought about wash down on cylinder walls? Reduced atomization because of higher flow? These are all reasons PI is better than DI

~ChRis

[TiGraySpeed6]

Appreciate your enthusiasm here ~JaKe, but I'm inclined to agree with what Ziggo says.

Respectfully suggest cease typing about it and go forth & do stuff instead. It really has become beating a dead horse since it's all just typing the same thing over & over with no new forward movement.

Create, or hush up on the this topic. Not wanting to sound like an ass, but feel honestly compelled to draw comparison to the WRX owners in another post- there are builders and owners. The builders, the creators, those who lay the paths the rest of us follow have been here, done this, talked to the manufacturers already. What can be done, what progress there is to be made is being done, being made. You asking the same question over & over is not contributing to the subject.

And no, I'm not contributing either, I just don't want to unsubscribe from this thread for the future good stuff, but the static is getting thick.

[WWPearlMS6]

Originally Posted by Ziggo Have fun waiting. For injectors, for bigger HPFP, for controls in ATR. In the meantime the rest of us will be making power. Do you really think that nobody has tried before? That we are all incompetent? Nothing is ever black and white, there are always tradeoffs. Have you ever looked at the injection window at your 8000rpm? Your valves? Thought about wash down on cylinder walls? Reduced atomization because of higher flow? These are all reasons PI is better than DI ~ChRis

Yeah, you'll be taking off straight to the moon with your BNR & F___WD.

I never suggested incompetence was the reason it isn't here, it is only a matter of time. As I said if need be I will do the 5th & 6th port. Just want to be sure that after 6+ years it is still all we have. The majority of the work in trying to get these developed was 4-5 years ago. Alot has changed since than, an addition of a MS3, a Genpu, CX-7 and a whole bunch of time to get the cars used and more prevalent. Its clear that the technology is here to stay so want to see what we got for options and if they have been followed up to see if there positioning has changed.

Originally Posted by TiGraySpeed6 Appreciate your enthusiasm here ~JaKe, but I'm inclined to agree with what Ziggo says. Respectfully suggest cease typing about it and go forth & do stuff instead. It really has become beating a dead horse since it's all just typing the same thing over & over with no new forward movement. Create, or hush up on the this topic. Not wanting to sound like an ass, but feel honestly compelled to draw comparison to the WRX owners in another post- there are builders and owners. The builders, the creators, those who lay the paths the rest of us follow have been here, done this, talked to the manufacturers already. What can be done, what progress there is to be made is being done, being made. You asking the same question over & over is not contributing to the subject. And no, I'm not contributing either, I just don't want to unsubscribe from this thread for the future good stuff, but the static is getting thick.

Fair enough and agreed. I'm not the engineer or person with the most knowledge on this stuff, but I'm trying to follow up with what was done 5 years ago to see change.

So I followed up with:
deatschwerks - Waiting on a call back

Who else had we contacted/can I contact to follow up?

~JaKe

[jracer]

~jake

Pretty low blow about Ziggo post.
" Yeah, you'll be taking off straight to the moon with your BNR & F___WD."

Ziggo has been on this forum for awhile and has contributed lots...
He told you the hard facts .. and you cant handle it..
Quit arguing with the facts..geez........
I talked to every manufacture at the PRI show earlier in the year .. they all gave the same lip service.." yeah we are looking into it.....blah,blah,blah...
who knows if mazda will even make another speed3 next year with our DISI engine.. why would they develop a injector for a engine thats on the way out ?? if mazda makes another speed.. it will most likely be a sky active wouldnt you think.?
witch uses different injectors

[TiGraySpeed6]

Note that the CX7 has been discontinued.
The Speed3 is the only production vehicle using this engine. Tho it's on a Gen2, with Mazda's move to Skyactiv platforms one could easily wonder where the future of the Speed3 lies.

It's a diminishing market, one that was never really that big to begin with, and where only a tiny fraction of the owner base would be interested in such a product. Regardless of how much that small percentage may want it.

Jake, when the guy at DW told you "Dave's not here", I chuckled, thinking he was pulling your leg with the old movie line...

[WWPearlMS6]

Originally Posted by jracer ~jake Pretty low blow about Ziggo post. " Yeah, you'll be taking off straight to the moon with your BNR & F___WD." Ziggo has been on this forum for awhile and has contributed lots... He told you the hard facts .. and you cant handle it.. Quit arguing with the facts..geez........ I talked to every manufacture at the PRI show earlier in the year .. they all gave the same lip service.." yeah we are looking into it.....blah,blah,blah... who knows if mazda will even make another speed3 next year with our DISI engine.. why would they develop a injector for a engine thats on the way out ?? if mazda makes another speed.. it will most likely be a sky active wouldnt you think.? witch uses different injectors

I don't intend to take jabs at members but if anyone no matter who you are is prepared to make fun of someone they better be capable of taking some right back. I have only retaliated, never instigated or initiated. Facts could exclude the jabs, than they are just facts.

If you talked to every manufacture at the PRI show, Please give me the names so I could compile the list here to check off when they were last contacted and date it.

I don't suppose Mazda would ever make an injector capable of what we will be looking for anyway. I was more looking into aftermarket companies.

Originally Posted by TiGraySpeed6 Note that the CX7 has been discontinued. The Speed3 is the only production vehicle using this engine. Tho it's on a Gen2, with Mazda's move to Skyactiv platforms one could easily wonder where the future of the Speed3 lies. It's a diminishing market, one that was never really that big to begin with, and where only a tiny fraction of the owner base would be interested in such a product. Regardless of how much that small percentage may want it. Jake, when the guy at DW told you "Dave's not here", I chuckled, thinking he was pulling your leg with the old movie line...

Good Points !

Haha, could be. I'll follow up next week and try and get them on the phone to provide more info cause the guy did not know all that much regarding our area/product.

~JaKe

[chimmike]

Originally Posted by jracer ~jake Pretty low blow about Ziggo post. " Yeah, you'll be taking off straight to the moon with your BNR & F___WD." Ziggo has been on this forum for awhile and has contributed lots... He told you the hard facts .. and you cant handle it.. Quit arguing with the facts..geez........ I talked to every manufacture at the PRI show earlier in the year .. they all gave the same lip service.." yeah we are looking into it.....blah,blah,blah... who knows if mazda will even make another speed3 next year with our DISI engine.. why would they develop a injector for a engine thats on the way out ?? if mazda makes another speed.. it will most likely be a sky active wouldnt you think.? witch uses different injectors

^ what John said. Deatchewerkes MIGHT be working on them, but I'm not holding my breath.

[Ziggo]

Originally Posted by jracer Ziggo has been on this forum for awhile and has contributed lots... He told you the hard facts .. and you cant handle it.. Quit arguing with the facts..geez........

Thanks, but no need to defend me. I wouldn't be here if I couldn't handle some asshattary.

I got no problem with you trying, but don't criticize what we have going on unless you have something *right now* that is better.

What are the parameters for how long we have to wait till we get to say "I told you so?" if 6 months go by and there still isn't a DI solution (including pump and everything else) that is as at least 50% more flow over stock and under say $1500? 1 year? 2 Years?



Zigatapatalka