CDFP Break in

[DaleNixon]

I'm hungover as balls today. Epic night at the bars and this really trashy bartender told me she wanted to take me home

I'm gonna install my PTP pump in a few hours. Keep us updated 2007speed3. I will too.

[2007speed3]

dale, dont do what i did and baby it.

after letting it idle run around at 4 ad 5k rpms.

[Nigelo]

Subbed! Here's hoping my internals install perfectly when they arrive, crap, I have zero luck when it comes to potential issues :S

[flyrevs2]

nothing against PTP, but just like Lenny said, if your FP drops to 50 it is stuck (bound, seized, etc.) . Now you can goof around and prolly get it unstuck and it may run ok for a while, but soon it will stick again just like 2007speed3's pump has done after alot more "breaking in". ONce you stick at 50 forget it, the pump is not going to heal itself. I've been through at least 8 or so of these internal kits (not PTP's kit fyi) and I'm speaking from experience.

PS. for the record if I had to buy some internals I WOULD get the PTP ones.

[taf0422]

man...this kinda makes me a little worried for when I get my internals...John, I hope you send me a manual on how everything is supposed to be installed and driven with these...I don't need anything happening to my ms3...

Also the other reason I bought from you guys and not CP-e was complete confidence in your parts, price, and customer service

[DaleNixon]

My hangover wouldn't allow me to install my pump so I'll probably do it next weekend. Can anyone link to some official breakin instructions? All I've found is conjecture and confusion.

[lenny127]

^^^ ask your specific vendor

[FreeFlyFreak]

Originally Posted by DaleNixon Can anyone link to some official breakin instructions? All I've found is conjecture and confusion.

They are the same as the official break in instructions provided by Mazda for the OEM Mazda pump, when you bought your car new.
The instructions can be found in your Mazda3 owners manual usually located in the glove compartment.
Or in the Mazda shop manual for when you replace the OEM pump.

Remember how Mazda told you to drive around for a up to 500 miles at various rpms and to also concentrate on the 5000-6000 rpm range.
Mazda also said don't worry about drops to 50 psi at WOT, stumbles or cuts, the pump sticks sometimes when it is breaking in...... it is quite normal.

It is all a normal part of the fuel pump break in procedure contained in the Mazda 3 owners manual .............................

EDIT:

Tongue firmly in friggin' cheek!!
In case someone doesnt "get it".............

[240mazspd3]

well i guess lenny just got owned saying that mazdas wont drop to 50psi, as well as the others claiming this is going to seize.

if the pump was going to seize, it would have seized already

[FreeFlyFreak]

Originally Posted by 240mazspd3 well i guess lenny just got owned saying that mazdas wont drop to 50psi, as well as the others claiming this is going to seize.

LOL

[Bravnik]

I have put about 400 miles on my pump and finally got it broke in today. Maybe I can clarify a few things with my experience and clear up a few misconceptions.

1. The pump does not stick at 5k. It will only stick if you try to go into boost at 5k (IE WOT). If you are in like second and slowly bring it up to 5-6k it will work just fine and THIS is what breaking it in means.

2. I put about 250 miles on my car after install. I never did the break-in right and just drove normal during this time. I simply stayed out of boost during this time as well. (I drive 80miles each way to work so 250 miles was just a few days). I was at a light and needed to merge so I decided to test the new FP. I got on it in 1st and the car basically hit a brick wall and I noticed my FP was at 50PSI. It bumped up and down a bit then settled back to normal. I freaked the hell out (considering I put in 4 sets of Internals I don't blame myself) and started checking the forums. I knew the FP didn't seize as I had one set of internal seize and they don't come back to normal. After reading some posts here about the PROPER break-in I felt better.

3. Today I did a proper break-in. I drove my car about 150miles and for the fist 20 or so I would downshift and slowly go up to 6k and held it there for at least 30secs to a minute and repeated the process. I did a tentative pull and what do you know? No stick. At the end of the day I pulled a couple logs (1st through 3rd, 3rd through 4th and then a 4th to 5th pull) and never did my pump stick or did my pressure drop below 1650PSI at WOT. Normal WOT was 1700-1800+.

4. What the misconception is here is that you guys think that if you hit 5k then your car will go boom. This is NOT the case. You are not suppose to hit 5k while under WOT. Simply slowly build to 5-6k and let it set that for a few then back down and back up. Your are NOT suppose to go into boost until broke in. If you never do and you break in your pump when you do go WOT you will NEVER stick.

5. I went through 3 sets of CDI and one of the other internal before I gave up. I could not justify $700 for the CPE as I was simply sick of the FP issues I was having as it was and already spent a lot for nothing. PTP came along and believe me I was very very skeptical at first. I waited until I saw happy users and no treads on issues before I even thought about ordering. I seriously freaked out when my new PTP stuck that one time but after reading I found out it was normal and that I was being a puss on breaking in the pump properly. Now that I have, I can't tell you how happy I am.

6. Get the pump. Those that know me know I would never recommend garbage or something I didn't believe in.

[flyrevs2]

Originally Posted by 240mazspd3 well i guess lenny just got owned saying that mazdas wont drop to 50psi, as well as the others claiming this is going to seize. if the pump was going to seize, it would have seized already

wow dude, you really sound like a PTP fan boy. Dont get me wrong I really like PTP and I think their internals are probably the best out there.

Here's what you said in this thread previously: "john spoke of this being the break in period and that the FP drops to 50psi.

there is nothing wrong with the pump, just needs more break in."
So what do you think is happening when your fuel pressure is at 50 psi @ WOT when it's supposed to be at 1600PSI ? This is the worst possible senerio for your motor who is expecting 1600PSI to be on tap at all times WOT and now it gets only 50psi - not good.
There used to be people who believed the world was not round, and now there are people who think 50 psi is ok on a DISI motor.

[wakeboarddude]

hahahaha damn paul shit will never be right with your car!! lol i would have gotten a new one after the second time it cut! Your a pacient man!

[Bravnik]

Yeah my FP was the issues after tune. FP was my huge issue to the point of just about parting out. However, now I'm happy. The PTP pump seems to be working good at this point and I'm very happy.

[240mazspd3]

Originally Posted by flyrevs2 wow dude, you really sound like a PTP fan boy. Dont get me wrong I really like PTP and I think their internals are probably the best out there. Here's what you said in this thread previously: "john spoke of this being the break in period and that the FP drops to 50psi. there is nothing wrong with the pump, just needs more break in." So what do you think is happening when your fuel pressure is at 50 psi @ WOT when it's supposed to be at 1600PSI ? This is the worst possible senerio for your motor who is expecting 1600PSI to be on tap at all times WOT and now it gets only 50psi - not good. There used to be people who believed the world was not round, and now there are people who think 50 psi is ok on a DISI motor.

did you miss everything said in this thread? you fail. go read

if the pump was going to seize, it WOULD SEIZE. before you talk, go read what john as stated about his own creation, second, read everyones experiences with the PTP pump and you will notice that the 50psi drop then back to reg pressure isnt "SEIZURE" its the conditioning period

go ahead and jump on lennys bandwagon of, "50psi drop is a flaw" and look foolish.

have you seen any motors go boom as a result?

[flyrevs2]

240mazspd3 - ok so no motors going boom means all is well with 50psi pressure at your injectors ?
The pump IS seizing, why do you think the fuel pressure drops immediately from 1600psi to 50psi? The hammering on the plunger sometimes unsticks it after a while, but I think you are playing with fire if you think 50psi is going to heal itself. Cheers.

- looks like eggs and green slime are flyin about, apparently some child is playing with the forum

[240mazspd3]

funny how there is a flaw with PTP's pump but you and lenny would still get one ha.

if the pump is going to seize, it will seize and stay that way.

i experienced my two drops down to 50psi at 5k and 6k rpms, nor was i in boost when doing so, just crusing in 2nd holding different revs.

at 75miles. my pump was broken in. and have been going WOT with ZERO issues.

hows your car and pump doing? running nice and strong??

[OMGWTFHAX]

Originally Posted by 240mazspd3 funny how there is a flaw with PTP's pump but you and lenny would still get one ha. if the pump is going to seize, it will seize and stay that way. i experienced my two drops down to 50psi at 5k and 6k rpms, nor was i in boost when doing so, just crusing in 2nd holding different revs. at 75miles. my pump was broken in. and have been going WOT with ZERO issues. hows your car and pump doing? running nice and strong??

You know no one takes what you say seriously?

[240mazspd3]

doesnt bother me

[felt]

Originally Posted by OMGWTFHAX You know no one takes what you say seriously?

Says the guy who bought the funny looking fmic rofl..

[madvillain]

50psi!?????!!!!!

you've got balls the size of grapefruits driving around on a fuel pump thats dipping to 50psi at those RPMS.. that is just plain reckless, take that thing off or dont drive the car man!

[Haltech]

Well CDI, KMD and other inernals on the market do have about a 25% fail rate of not even being usable from the get go due to the manf process of the plunger. They cannot keep the tolerances 100% per each part during a run. So, its always possible to get a set of bad internals, but following the breakin procedure seems like a good idea. I know we failed to do proper break in when we did a shit load of these too. i think many are guilty of it.

[lenny127]

240...i know u like to argue cuz ....who knows.

i tould like to see where it says in the manual that first 500 mile break in on our car is for fuel pump...... i would never have suspected this.

lets humor that this is the case.....do you guy s really think mazda is sending out new cars to cut ????

give me a fucken break and think for a second what u are saying....when u are breaking this pump in and u step on the gas and let it rise to 5k and it drops to 50psi and it cuts this is recommended by mazda? or theirs dont cut when they drop to 50?

lets see the manual and dig further so we can learn some..myself included

[Haltech]

Well keep in mind, these engines are broken in from the factory and monitored... Therefore, this procedure was made for people who have had factory pumps replaced for whatever reason.

[2007speed3]

Update Update Update Update

Woke up nice and early and decided to go out and continue breaking this pump in. I go to the local Mickey D'd get a nice cup of coffee and head out to some nice long sweeping roads with no lights or hills to get in my way.

As soon as i get on the road i am running the car up to 5.5k (no Boost, all motor papi) and at 4k bam, good ol 50 psi.

I slow down and when my foot is off the gas pedal it is at 300 400psi as soon as i gently press back on the pedal back to 50psi.

I pull over and curse and sip coffee. i try to pull back onto road now and all seems fine. This cut and go happens 4 more times in 10 minutes.

Im angry and head home, I rip open the tool box and pull the pump out. Luckly i never sent my core back and had it to reinstall.

Upon comparing the 2 pumps side by side i noticed a difference.

The stock pump allows me to push in the spring thing very easily with little muscle. The PTP pump wouldn't budge i had to put the spring thing on the table and push down on it to make it move.

After i few pushes on the table i was able to use my muscles to push the pump spring in without the table but it was still harder than the stock and not as smooth as the stocker at all.

Does this mean anything i do not know. Is it normal for the pump to be so hard to move?

[Bravnik]

I assume with closer tolerances that it is harder to push in.

To those of you that think it getting stuck is a major issue, it's much like running out of gas. The car simply sputters and total loss of power. I have run many a car out of fuel in my day without issues. I have never in my life seen a car implode due to running out of fuel.

Now, would I want that happening at WOT doing 120MPH? No. But in 2nd gear doing 5k, no worries. There are safety features built into cars for a reason.

2007Mazdaspeed - Keep doing the break-in. Let it hit 50PSI and settle back then do it again. If you stop doing it every single time you see 50PSI you will never get it broken in. Just keep doing it till it stops. If it Seizes then it will NEVER come back to normal. From what I read, the only 2 failures of this pump Seized. You will know it if it was to Seize as you would have to limp home after it does because it will never do more than 50PSI.

All I can say is mine did it, now it does not and I run just fine. My car didn't explode. As always there is a lot of good information on this forum but there is also a lot of BS, unnecessary fear, over jealous praise etc.

Also, I put about 400miles on my car before it was properly broke in. However, I only spent about 100 of those miles breaking it in. The rest was normal driving in daily traffic.

[240mazspd3]

Originally Posted by 2007speed3 Update Update Update Update Woke up nice and early and decided to go out and continue breaking this pump in. I go to the local Mickey D'd get a nice cup of coffee and head out to some nice long sweeping roads with no lights or hills to get in my way. As soon as i get on the road i am running the car up to 5.5k (no Boost, all motor papi) and at 4k bam, good ol 50 psi. I slow down and when my foot is off the gas pedal it is at 300 400psi as soon as i gently press back on the pedal back to 50psi. I pull over and curse and sip coffee. i try to pull back onto road now and all seems fine. This cut and go happens 4 more times in 10 minutes. Im angry and head home, I rip open the tool box and pull the pump out. Luckly i never sent my core back and had it to reinstall. Upon comparing the 2 pumps side by side i noticed a difference. The stock pump allows me to push in the spring thing very easily with little muscle. The PTP pump wouldn't budge i had to put the spring thing on the table and push down on it to make it move. After i few pushes on the table i was able to use my muscles to push the pump spring in without the table but it was still harder than the stock and not as smooth as the stocker at all. Does this mean anything i do not know. Is it normal for the pump to be so hard to move?

damn id be pissed if i was in this pickle, hit john up paul. do you have the tools to take the internals out and look at them? see is theres any scratching and such. but if you have the tools and cam, take them out and snap some pics so we can see

[lenny127]

paul, your pump has FAILED!!!!

jesus fucken christ, this isnt a reflection on ptp or anything....its a failure that compared to the larger picture is acceptable based on how internals work out generally.

contact ptp and i am sure they will send u new internals.............. this was never about arguing about the quality or efficiency of ptps pumps, this thread was ALWAYS about recognizing that THIS pump was headed for failure.

its admirable to stick for ones vendors, if they have done right by you why not, praise them. but we have to remain objective always to EACH PARTICULAR CASE.

good luck paul, im sure you will be taken care of, let us know what comes of this

[aaronc7]

KMD v1, KMD v2, while these are good internals IMO, there is a fairly high failure rate. I mean...still a relatively small percentage, but greater than most parts out there. I think it has to do the really tight tolerances required for these pumps.

I think PTP has a nice product here, but just like any other internals kit out there, there is a failure rate.. a certain percent we can expect to be slightly out of tolerance or whatever and not work correctly. We've seen this since the days of mrlilguys fuel pumps / KMD v1. I'm going to speculate here that even CPE has pump failures....BUT they test them first, so these never get sent out.

Like I said before I think this is a good product, but it sounds like paul just happened to basically be unlucky here and get a bad one, that's it. To me that takes nothing away from PTP at all, that's just how sensitive these parts are and shit just happens.

I agree 100 percent with lenny on pumps should not be sticking/seizing at all from the get-go. Not only do working KMD internals etc etc not stick from day 1, but there are also many (majority) of PTP pump users whose pumps run flawless from first start up. If these pumps were "designed" to stick and need to be "broken in".... why do only a few do it?

I think Paul just needs a new pump, and he will probably be golden-- big picture these pumps seem to be working very well for lots of people, props for that. Paul is my buddy and I just want to see him getting taken care of and his car running properly!

[Alpha]

PTP + Pre Tested/Broken in FTW!

I don't care what it costs, I'd never risk popping a motor during a major break in period for a measly couple hundred bucks.

JMHO.

I foresee John needed A LOT more cores for future sales.

[FreeFlyFreak]

Originally Posted by Alpha PTP + Pre Tested/Broken in FTW! I don't care what it costs, I'd never risk popping a motor during a major break in period for a measly couple hundred bucks. JMHO. I foresee John needed A LOT more cores for future sales.

I guarantee, if John sold guaranteed "broken in" pumps for $500 he would sell a bunch.
I for one am not willing to tool around hoping to break in a pump, and hoping not to be stranded on the side of the road on my DD. Nope.
PTPs are reasonably priced but involve too much potential hassle for me.
CP-e is tested/broken in, but priced out of the market IMO at $667.

I looked at both options, PTP with break in or CP-e for $$.
For me who is relatively stock, I chose instead to back my tune off to within the capabilities of the stock pump.
I will keep it like that either forever, or until a reasonably priced pre tested/broken in pump (bolt on and it guaranteed works with no pressure drops) becomes available. It needs to be priced mid way between PTP break it in yourself pump, and the CP-e fully tested with printouts of flow/pressures pump.

[djuosnteisn]

Am i the only one reading this shit and thinking to myself about what's really going on when the pump "sticks"?

Doesn't that mean that the cam follower is also stuck, and that the cam lobe is probably just pounding on it till it "unsticks"?

Also, during the "stick" and "unstick" process, could there be metal fragments getting into the oil or fuel, or both?




As if the 50psi at high rpm wasn't obvious enough, maybe some of these other thoughts would be.

[FreeFlyFreak]

Originally Posted by djuosnteisn Am i the only one reading this shit and thinking to myself about what's really going on when the pump "sticks"? Doesn't that mean that the cam follower is also stuck, and that the cam lobe is probably just pounding on it till it "unsticks"? Also, during the "stick" and "unstick" process, could there be metal fragments getting into the oil or fuel, or both? As if the 50psi at high rpm wasn't obvious enough, maybe some of these other thoughts would be.

No you are not the only one.

My GUESS is, the piston only truly sticks at the "top" of its travel though.
The cam/follower will force it on the upstroke unless it seizes/jams completely, which it doesn't seem to do.
It seems to be a case of very very stiff/tight tolerances.
So stiff it gets forced up by the cam/follower but the spring cannot force it back down sometimes, maybe not moved down by the spring quick enough at high rpm, it hangs up for a while before freeing itself/ being eased down by the spring.

However I would be concerned if I were an owner as to what kind of damage/extra wear this is doing to the cam/follower/pump and what chance there is for extra wear and/or metal contamination in oil or fuel.
That is why I have not, and will not, buy one that is "un broken in"

It does seem one of the only two reasonable options at the moment, but I wouldn't buy either because I dont "have to" I am not on the "big power" quest.
So people that "have to", they pay their money and take their choice/chance:
$$$$ and works out of the box with paperwork showing flow/psi.
or $ and break the thing in.

What we really need is a middle option:
$$ and broken in, works out of the box, no test results required

[lenny127]

take some internals apart that have , "stuck, seized" or w/e word makes john feel more comfortable. the scarring is always in the middle of the piston head.

i will add this though so ptp doesnt think I am trying to fuck with them, I have seen at least a dozen failed internals as well as another 8 or so that worked, of the failed ones I have never seen any engine damage come out of it, and trust me I have seen the worst.

phillyb ran his fp with 25 psi for like 2 weeks...never would go more than 60 psi ever and he still didnt manage to blow up.... that doesnt mean its the smart thing to do...i am just saying that I have never seen any physical harm come to an engine that has a stuck pump, nonetheless it needs to be replaced asap so we never truly find out how long an engine can run with a compromised fp

[triplejumper18]

It's a gorgeous day outside so I drove from my office downtown to Cobb Surgeline on the freeway and opened her up with the PTP pump and I got 1910psi on the way there and 2030psi on the way back. It stuck twice last week after the first break in session and hasn't happened since.

FWIW, my friend had a CPE pump that failed him, so not even tested and broken in pumps don't fail.

[2007speed3]

Originally Posted by triplejumper18 It's a gorgeous day outside so I drove from my office downtown to Cobb Surgeline on the freeway and opened her up with the PTP pump and I got 1910psi on the way there and 2030psi on the way back. It stuck twice last week after the first break in session and hasn't happened since. FWIW, my friend had a CPE pump that failed him, so not even tested and broken in pumps don't fail.

I understand that it can get stuck sometimes during breakin, this weekend mine has gotten stuck over 20 times.

Today it was at the point that 4800rpms triggered my stuckness and it not releasing for a few seconds.

I still havent figured out if the ptp pump is supposed to be so hard to push the spring in. When the stock pump is very easy to push.

i have put well past 400 miles on the pump.

[Buildabong]

this coming from 240, "there is nothing wrong witht he pump, just needs more break in. i dropped to 50 psi twice. but mine is broken in now"

lol 240 is a ra-tard at the best of the best, cotton swab his mouth before he gets siliva on the windows!!

[Alpha]

Originally Posted by FreeFlyFreak I guarantee, if John sold guaranteed "broken in" pumps for $500 he would sell a bunch. I for one am not willing to tool around hoping to break in a pump, and hoping not to be stranded on the side of the road on my DD. Nope. PTPs are reasonably priced but involve too much potential hassle for me. CP-e is tested/broken in, but priced out of the market IMO at $667. I looked at both options, PTP with break in or CP-e for $$. For me who is relatively stock, I chose instead to back my tune off to within the capabilities of the stock pump. I will keep it like that either forever, or until a reasonably priced pre tested/broken in pump (bolt on and it guaranteed works with no pressure drops) becomes available. It needs to be priced mid way between PTP break it in yourself pump, and the CP-e fully tested with printouts of flow/pressures pump.

ABSOLUTELY!

[240mazspd3]

Originally Posted by Buildabong this coming from 240, "there is nothing wrong witht he pump, just needs more break in. i dropped to 50 psi twice. but mine is broken in now" lol 240 is a ra-tard at the best of the best, cotton swab his mouth before he gets siliva on the windows!!

if there was a prob then my pump would be STUCK and its not. just like the others who have dropped to 50psi and their pumps are "stick" free since being broken in

something seems to be up with pauls pump but it still hasnt seized up either

but as said, my pump dropped to 50psi a couple times during break in and is fine now, just like many other PTP FPI owners.

so if im a "ra-tard" then so are the others who bought ptp pumps and experienced 50psi drops

and lets hear what you have to say about those who bought APR/CPE, BROKEN IN pumps in the vdub and mazda world that seized...nothing is 100% full proof

[wakeboarddude]

Lol wow this thread became a mess!

Paul im just glad you took that thing out cause obviously you got a bad pump! 50psi 20 times!!! hell no thats not in the breakin procedure! come on guys you can keep encouraging someone like this to keep going after so many cuts! Its fucked up! Lol paul i know you want your shit to blow but come on that desprate lol! but seriously man im glad you got this thing out and send it to john fast! Get a new one and that shit will be golden in a few days!

To me its still odd to have a pump cut for its breakin procedure but fine i can accept that. Sure it could be the design or what ever but after about the 10th time and the same rpm ranges..dude no one should be saying keep going or ya it'll settle after 20 times lol. And when he finally takes the pump out and can barley get it to move..thats like a 100% comfirmation that the pump is bad!

Look i dont wanna start anything with anyone! Just glad he took those things out before anymore damage could be done! Paul is a cool dude and we should be lookin out for him not messin his shit up! "We should be guiding his cock not blocking it!" lol funny superbad quote!