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MazdaSpeed 3/6 - Fuel, Nitrous & Water Injection MazdaSpeed 3/6 - Fuel, Nitrous & Water Injection Have a CDFP fuel pump question? Do you want to add Nitrous or Water Injection to your Mazdaspeed 3/6 ? Please come on in!


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 Old 01-08-2014, 12:39 AM   #1
 
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Default Ethanol injection

I am trying to get information on using Ethanol in my DevilsOwn alcohol injection system. I have done some research and haven't found very much about it on here. There is plenty of info on using in tank Ethanol but not in a alcohol injection kit. I would love to just add it to my tank but it will more than likely push my IDC above 100%. When spraying a D07 50/50 meth my IDC was in the low 90s. I'm not too worried about the Ethanol effecting the pump. Quote from Devils Own website "While this pump is chemically compatible for use with 100% methanol and/or ethanol, we do not recommend running flammable liquids."

The only reason im looking at Eth instead of Meth, is because I am stationed in Italy and I am having a hard time finding Meth. The best option that i had avaliable just went away. I was using a concentrated WWF that i purchased on base.

Its fairly easy for me to find Ethanol or Denatured alcohol out in town. its kind of expensive though. around 20 euro for 5L (27$ for 1.3Gallons). I can also get pure grain alcohol on base (96%) but i'm not sure about the price.

anyone have any experience with it?
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 Old 01-08-2014, 06:32 AM   #2
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from everything i've read, they're both fairly similar to run.
DO will cover their butts and say never run flammable liquids, so dilute the alcohol with water until it can no longer ignite easily.

however, many like myself run pure methanol straight through the system with little or no issues.

The main reason why people will run meth over eth is cost. Meth is generally cheaper (i can pick up a gallon for roughly 6 bucks). Also has a slight more cooling effect on the intake charge.

again, this is me recalling things from what I've read. Correct me if I'm wrong.
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 Old 01-08-2014, 06:41 AM   #3
 
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yea, I don't think that there would be any issues with running pure Eth. I probably would only run like 75% E though. Im really just looking to read peoples experiences with tuning for it and what kind of performance was yielded.

also, I looked at the price of pure grain alcohol today on base. 20$ for 2 Liters. F that.
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 Old 01-08-2014, 06:58 AM   #4
 
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@Realgib3; uses a 6th port system with an independent tank to shoot pure ethanol through those two pre throttle body injectors.
Originally Posted by Realgib3 View Post
Definitely not harder to tune, in some ways slightly easier because your fuel flow through the secondaries is extremely consistent since it's an independent, regulated, return style system. For the most part though, it's the exact same tuning.
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 Old 01-08-2014, 07:55 AM   #5
 
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Default Ethanol injection

Originally Posted by pmartz16 View Post
@Realgib3; uses a 6th port system with an independent tank to shoot pure ethanol through those two pre throttle body injectors.

Sounds expensive. A little out of my price range for now



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 Old 01-08-2014, 09:15 AM   #6
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every situation and car is different. However, expect just about the same results running ethanol vs methanol.

you can try bumping back your timing a couple degrees to be on the safe side.
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 Old 01-08-2014, 09:17 AM   #7
 
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Where do you get pure ethanol?

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 Old 01-08-2014, 09:27 AM   #8
 
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Originally Posted by p057 View Post
every situation and car is different. However, expect just about the same results running ethanol vs methanol.

you can try bumping back your timing a couple degrees to be on the safe side.

I'll turn boost and timing down a little bit before I give it a whirl for sure. Have you tried Eth?


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Originally Posted by Dizzy Turbo View Post
Where do you get pure ethanol?

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A store out in town called Leroy Merlin. It's used for fire places. Lol it's funny explaining to Italians that you are going to use fire place gas in your car


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 Old 01-08-2014, 09:28 AM   #9
 
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Isn't there a type of windshield washer fluid you can use? And that's cool, I never knew anywherre you could buy bulk ethanol besides e85

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 Old 01-08-2014, 09:31 AM   #10
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I'm pretty sure Mark is shooting e85. Not denatured alcohol.
I know @rfinkle2; has run ethanol through his meth kit.
Look for methyl hydrate. It's 100 meth.
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 Old 01-08-2014, 09:39 AM   #11
 
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Originally Posted by Dizzy Turbo View Post
Isn't there a type of windshield washer fluid you can use? And that's cool, I never knew anywherre you could buy bulk ethanol besides e85

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I have found other WWF but none with high % of meth.



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Originally Posted by Tokay444 View Post
I'm pretty sure Mark is shooting e85. Not denatured alcohol.
I know @rfinkle2; has run ethanol through his meth kit.
Look for methyl hydrate. It's 100 meth.

What kind of place would carry methyl hydrate? I haven't found any if it yet. I take a picture of everything that I found out in town that might have the slightest chance of containing meth. Once I get home I search for a msds. No luck yet


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 Old 01-08-2014, 10:01 AM   #12
 
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Yes my bad. Its e85
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 Old 01-08-2014, 10:11 AM   #13
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methyl hydrate would be in hardware stores in the paint section.

It is probably fine to run ethanol and it is safer for the person handling it.

If you have ethanol available you can also drop a couple of gallons in the tank.
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 Old 01-08-2014, 10:23 AM   #14
 
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Default Ethanol injection

Originally Posted by Lex View Post
methyl hydrate would be in hardware stores in the paint section.

It is probably fine to run ethanol and it is safer for the person handling it.

If you have ethanol available you can also drop a couple of gallons in the tank.

I've been in quite a few hardware stores but haven't seen that yet.

I was thinking of switching back to a D05 nozzle while running E and see how my IDC looks. If they are low enough I'll add a little to the tank. With the D07, I go through Washer fluid tank real fast. Makes road course racing hard to do. I'm scared I will run out mid race.

Also, running in tank E is not wallet friendly for me. A couple gallons would cast me like 50$

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 Old 01-08-2014, 10:50 AM   #15
 
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Where I am originally from if you wanted straight ethanol all you had to do was go see Billy-Bob and get some moonshine.

Originally Posted by speed3sailor View Post
I've been in quite a few hardware stores but haven't seen that yet.

I was thinking of switching back to a D05 nozzle while running E and see how my IDC looks. If they are low enough I'll add a little to the tank. With the D07, I go through Washer fluid tank real fast. Makes road course racing hard to do. I'm scared I will run out mid race.

Also, running in tank E is not wallet friendly for me. A couple gallons would cast me like 50$

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Do they have denatured alcohol in the hardware stores? You could always run that if you can't find methanol.
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 Old 01-08-2014, 10:56 AM   #16
 
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Originally Posted by SparkySparks View Post
Where I am originally from if you wanted straight ethanol all you had to do was go see Billy-Bob and get some moonshine.





Do they have denatured alcohol in the hardware stores? You could always run that if you can't find methanol.

I'm from Tennessee. I know all about shine.

They have denatured alky. That is pretty much ethanol tho. It's like 80%E 20%meth if I remember correctly. Most of the denatured stuff I found out in town is pink in color. Not sure if it's got dome other crap in it


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 Old 01-08-2014, 11:03 AM   #17
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Ethanol vs methanol in a port injection setup has a couple advantages and disadvantages. Ethanol is safer to handle, as Lex said. It will also help fueling head room more than methanol will, but that's a pretty small difference. Methanol, though, has a much higher latent heat capacity, meaning it will cool the intake charge more than ethanol. So, if you're going for fueling head room only, eth is probably the way to go.
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 Old 01-08-2014, 11:15 AM   #18
 
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I'm not really trying to get more head room. Just trying not to lose any more. I'm using it for lower bats, and higher octane. I know it's not as good as pure meth but I don't even have pure meth available. The best I could get is around a 50% mix. I'm just hoping a higher concentration if E will be as good as the 50/50 meth or better


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 Old 01-08-2014, 12:22 PM   #19
 
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hopefully @rfinkle2; can chime in with his experience.
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 Old 01-08-2014, 12:41 PM   #20
 
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@Voltwings; Ran denatured alcohol from home depot in his kit and it worked fine for fueling bu it's like 9 bucks a can. As other have said.. Eth does not cool as well as meth but works fine. Running mixes of meth/water will help get you cooling and not destroy afrs with all the extra fuel.
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 Old 01-08-2014, 12:56 PM   #21
 
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Originally Posted by phate View Post
Ethanol vs methanol in a port injection setup has a couple advantages and disadvantages. Ethanol is safer to handle, as Lex said. It will also help fueling head room more than methanol will, but that's a pretty small difference. Methanol, though, has a much higher latent heat capacity, meaning it will cool the intake charge more than ethanol. So, if you're going for fueling head room only, eth is probably the way to go.
Originally Posted by kashbringer View Post
@Voltwings; Ran denatured alcohol from home depot in his kit and it worked fine for fueling bu it's like 9 bucks a can. As other have said.. Eth does not cool as well as meth but works fine. Running mixes of meth/water will help get you cooling and not destroy afrs with all the extra fuel.
I quoted Phate because i saw pretty much exactly what he said. Also, i found that on a 25% E85 blend, spraying denatured alcohol played much nicer with my AFR's than spraying methanol. Trying to find a happy median for 3 fuels is kind of a pain lol. Methanol is much cheaper though... i ran denatured with great success however, and i love the smell when it kicks in, smells like horsepower
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 Old 01-09-2014, 03:01 PM   #22
 
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Eth will fuel better than Meth. I had to do the same thing you are doing in Japan. Check on camp fuel, burning alcohol, gas line antifreeze, etc. You have to have some ingenuity to get things done in other countries.
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 Old 01-09-2014, 03:48 PM   #23
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The Canadian cars had a much larger washer fluid tank. I believe the Euro cars might as well due to the headlight washers. It also includes a low level light that you might be able to plug into the harness.
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 Old 01-09-2014, 10:26 PM   #24
 
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I need a bigger tank for sure. When im tuning, I go through a full tank in a hurry. hopefully HTP releases their new tanks soon.

Originally Posted by Lex View Post
The Canadian cars had a much larger washer fluid tank. I believe the Euro cars might as well due to the headlight washers. It also includes a low level light that you might be able to plug into the harness.
do you think that would be the regular 3s also?
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 Old 01-09-2014, 10:51 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by speed3sailor View Post
I need a bigger tank for sure. When im tuning, I go through a full tank in a hurry. hopefully HTP releases their new tanks soon.





do you think that would be the regular 3s also?

Most likely.
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