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 Old 02-21-2016, 05:09 PM   #1
 
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Default Extremely rich idle with intermittent missfire

Hey guys having an issue with a rich idle ~9-11AFRs. Seems to be causing an intermittent missfire also. I originally thought it could be the MAF not being properly calibrated but regardless of how much I pull from the MAF tables, it will progressively get richer as it warms up (Settling around ~11AFR). I'm also getting a rough start up, similar to trying to start a car that's flooded. I've checked all vacuum/boost lines without finding anything. Car has port injected meth, but it doesn't seem to be leaking at idle (pulled the lines over night and started in the morning with the hard start still present). No idea what it could be.. Only thing I can think of is a leaking injector or some other fueling problem. Also, I only have this issue persisting under a MAF voltage of 1.2-1.3Volts (4" HTP Intake)>

Mods Are:
Built Motor
Ported head
Stock K04
Ported intake manifold
Port injected Meth (D01 X4).
HTP 4" intake
EGR Valve is unpluged
Homemade catch can
Autotechs HPFP
M2 dp with magnaflow catback
3port Cobb EBCS
Turbo Xs 50/50 BPV
Cobb v3
3.5 bar MAP

I tune myself so any altercations that may be needed will be done myself. I'm 99.99% it isn't the tune though because the problem persists regardless of tune. the -6.22 vacuum has been consistently present since the 3.5 bar map install, prior to this issue arising.

I'm attaching logs:
The PNG file is, after letting the car idle for a couple minutes, I turned the engine off and turn the ignition on. This is HPFP Act vs Time (s)

Thanks for any help!!
Attached Images
File Type: png Fuel.png (23.0 KB, 12 views)
Attached Files
File Type: csv IDLE_C.csv (7.4 KB, 1 views)
File Type: csv REV-IDLE.csv (15.7 KB, 1 views)
File Type: csv start-up.csv (21.9 KB, 0 views)
File Type: csv WOT_C.csv (10.6 KB, 2 views)
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 Old 02-21-2016, 05:22 PM   #2
 
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Most likely blown injector seals. Could be the primary o2 as well, a bit cheaper and faster to replace if you decide to go this route.
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 Old 02-21-2016, 05:29 PM   #3
 
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Originally Posted by Code Monkey View Post
Most likely blown injector seals. Could be the primary o2 as well, a bit cheaper and faster to replace if you decide to go this route.
Forgot to mention, car also has safeseals, 30k on the build. Would I have issues with WOT afrs if it's O2?

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 Old 02-21-2016, 05:44 PM   #4
 
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My AFR's were perfect at WOT.
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 Old 02-21-2016, 05:46 PM   #5
 
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Originally Posted by Code Monkey View Post
My AFR's were perfect at WOT.
With the primary o2?

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 Old 02-21-2016, 05:48 PM   #6
 
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I tried 3 different o2 sensors, WOT AFR's were always fine.
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 Old 02-21-2016, 05:50 PM   #7
 
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Originally Posted by Code Monkey View Post
I tried 3 different o2 sensors, WOT AFR's were always fine.
Did you have similar issues with idle afrs being rich? And no cel?

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 Old 02-21-2016, 06:14 PM   #8
 
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Rich at idle, but I did get a CEL after a while. After some driving, the AFR's would very very slowly start climbing up, but after letting the car sit for a few days, they would plummet again.
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 Old 02-21-2016, 06:18 PM   #9
 
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Originally Posted by Code Monkey View Post
Rich at idle, but I did get a CEL after a while. After some driving, the AFR's would very very slowly start climbing up, but after letting the car sit for a few days, they would plummet again.
Interesting... You said you got 3 different o2s, which one did you settle on?

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 Old 02-21-2016, 06:20 PM   #10
 
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They were all OEM sensors. I had to swap injector seals to fix my problem.
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 Old 02-21-2016, 06:27 PM   #11
 
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Good to see someone else pushing the K04 hard.

Couple things, if you're vacuum isn't right, you should fix that. Sounds like you may not have gotten the scalars right when putting in the 3 bar map sensor. Does it measure 0 psi when KOEO?

Also, do you target the boost to fall off like that? I would think leak. K04 at 100% duty cycle should hold more (16 - 17psi) at redline.

I've got a 4 in intake, and having my idle speed at 1000 rpms helps it idle smoother. More airflow for the MAF to measure.

I would look for leaks. I can never remember which rich at idle means, but I would think after the turbo, since you can't build much boost. I think at idle the boost leak would allow more air in, so I would think it would run lean, which doesn't match what you're seeing.

Good Luck
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 Old 02-21-2016, 06:44 PM   #12
 
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Originally Posted by sheston View Post
Good to see someone else pushing the K04 hard.

Couple things, if you're vacuum isn't right, you should fix that. Sounds like you may not have gotten the scalars right when putting in the 3 bar map sensor. Does it measure 0 psi when KOEO?

Also, do you target the boost to fall off like that? I would think leak. K04 at 100% duty cycle should hold more (16 - 17psi) at redline.

I've got a 4 in intake, and having my idle speed at 1000 rpms helps it idle smoother. More airflow for the MAF to measure.

I would look for leaks. I can never remember which rich at idle means, but I would think after the turbo, since you can't build much boost. I think at idle the boost leak would allow more air in, so I would think it would run lean, which doesn't match what you're seeing.

Good Luck
Yeah I'm not entirely sure if the scalars are correct, I am at 7000' elevation though so vacuum is never as strong. Also at sea level it usually tapers to 16-17 @ 100% WGDC, elevation kinda kills it. I will try to fix it though. And vacuum is -.05 with the engine off.
Thanks!

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 Old 02-21-2016, 07:20 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by I_AINT_RICE View Post
Yeah I'm not entirely sure if the scalars are correct, I am at 7000' elevation though so vacuum is never as strong. Also at sea level it usually tapers to 16-17 @ 100% WGDC, elevation kinda kills it. I will try to fix it though. And vacuum is -.05 with the engine off.
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You've got a busted primary O2 sensor, unless you've been swapping maps like crazy and have no mileage on the current tune. I say this because your LTFTs never depart from -0.16, and your STFTs are pegged at -25 most of the time. These are classic symptoms for when the primary O2 goes out. No CEL will be triggered either.
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 Old 02-21-2016, 07:27 PM   #14
 
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Originally Posted by Vansquish View Post
You've got a busted primary O2 sensor, unless you've been swapping maps like crazy and have no mileage on the current tune. I say this because your LTFTs never depart from -0.16, and your STFTs are pegged at -25 most of the time. These are classic symptoms for when the primary O2 goes out. No CEL will be triggered either.
Thanks for the reply man! The map only has 10 miles on it but regardless, I drove my last map for ~70 miles and it never presented a LTFT for idling voltages. Would I still be able to hit my targeted afrs in OL WOT though?

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 Old 02-21-2016, 07:32 PM   #15
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The car will default to running only OL tables if the primary O2 can't provide any feedback to the ECU. These are generally regarded as "safe" values, rather than the more aggressively lean CL table values in the same rev/load ranges. So yes, it'll run fine at WOT, almost as if nothing is wrong!
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 Old 02-21-2016, 07:37 PM   #16
 
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Originally Posted by Vansquish View Post
The car will default to running only OL tables if the primary O2 can't provide any feedback to the ECU. These are generally regarded as "safe" values, rather than the more aggressively lean CL table values in the same rev/load ranges. So yes, it'll run fine at WOT, almost as if nothing is wrong!
Sounds pretty similar! I'll see about ordering a new one tonight thanks!

If anyone else has any ideas, let me know!

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 Old 02-22-2016, 05:07 PM   #17
 
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Found my issue.. Ends up the check valve from devils own doesn't like 100% methanol. Was leaking right past it during vacuum. What check valves do you guys run on 100% meth?
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 Old 02-22-2016, 05:43 PM   #18
 
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I run the devil's own as well, and 100% Meth. Seems to be working fine. I did get a bad one to start with. Had to buy a new one. Cheaper than what they wanted me to do, pay for shipping it back, let them decide if I ruined it.....

Glad to see you found your leak. Cheaper than a new O2 sensor :-)
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