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MazdaSpeed 3/6 - Fuel, Nitrous & Water Injection MazdaSpeed 3/6 - Fuel, Nitrous & Water Injection Have a CDFP fuel pump question? Do you want to add Nitrous or Water Injection to your Mazdaspeed 3/6 ? Please come on in!


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 Old 01-15-2018, 03:51 PM   #1
 
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Default Fuel Pressure - spill valve not opening

Hey all, I'm at a bit of a loss here and I've been trying to fix this damn thing for WAAAYYY too long.

Short of it: spill valve does not open for fuel to enter HPFP.

Long bit:
Getting on the freeway nice and slow (had lots of coffee in there) and poof no power...made it home somehow and started tearing into things...

This thing has had corksport HPFP internals since I bought it, they are good, verified with corksport.

Brand New pressure relief valve, old one seemed okay but figured screw it and bought a new one.

Brand new fuel injector seals and cleaned the injectors.

Just installed a brand New ITFP, it's working like a champ.

When I turn the key to aux power, I see 60-70psi (ITFP)...turn key over, idles shittily for approx 3 seconds then dies. Pressure never goes over 60-70.

Accessport reads HPFP psi just fine but reports HPFP Sens. Voltage as 0V

HPFP spill valve solenoid does not seem to be letting fuel into the pump....if I manually give the solenoid 12v, poof, fuel pressure numbers are perfect(ish) I'm seeing approximately the same pressure as the PCM is calling for. Volt meter on the wires confirms that there is indeed 12v from the PCM to the spill valve, but as soon as I plug them into the spill valve, voltage disappears and I never see it again even when the engine turns over and half idles. One last note, when I turn the key to aux power the ECU ticks/clicks continuously (half second second intervals) sounds like a relay.

Is the ECU messed up or what the hell am I missing? Bad ground? I know PCM opens the spill valve based on fuel pressure so maybe it has to do with the HPFP Sens. voltage reporting 0? Ive tried throwing some extra wire from the neg terminal on the battery to the chassis and to the ground plate thing close to the HPFP as I know that's an import ground location for fuel system. I'm stumped....any help would be greatly appreciated!
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 Old 01-16-2018, 08:13 AM   #2
 
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More brainstorming here....it's gotta be a fuel pressure sensor right? If the ECU isn't getting an appropriate reading it's not gonna open that spill valve...this is driving me crazy hahaha
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 Old 01-16-2018, 08:47 AM   #3
 
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I would check the FSM. Check the spill valve resistance.then check it from the pcm. If it was a bad fuel pressure sensor you wouldnt be able to read it from the AP. Check for fucked wires. You can jump out the wires with some spare cable. The clicking sound is a tb calibration. If it just crapped out of no where i would go with a bad spill valve or a fucked wire. A fucked wire will show 12v as long as it isnt severed but as soon as a bunch of current comes thru all the voltage gets dropped over the bad part of the wire leaving low or no voltage at the connector.
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 Old 01-16-2018, 09:14 AM   #4
 
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The fucked wire bit makes a ridiculous amount of sense. Would explain why it tones out okay but under load it would take a shit. Thanks man, I'll check that shit out tonight and get back to you. Really appreciate it!
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 Old 01-21-2018, 05:03 PM   #5
 
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Well still no luck. Thinking the spill valve control solenoid is fucked. Measured resistance across the solenoid @ 1.6Ohm. Guess I'll try and order a used one on ebay or something cuz damn they are spendy lol
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 Old 03-12-2018, 06:27 PM   #6
 
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Well I'm back and in the same boat. Got a brand new hpfp after running brand new wire from the ECU to the spill valve and the bitch still has low fuel pressure. I still read a hpfp psi value @in tank pump pressure(70-80), but hpfp voltage reads 0. I pulled the pressure sensor at the end of the rail and it looks okay...no idea what to do next....new wiring harness?? Fuck.
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 Old 03-13-2018, 01:16 PM   #7
 
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Gonna pull the harness completely out I guess, and tone out each wire to make sure it's all gravy. $550 for a new OEM harness is mental!!
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 Old 03-13-2018, 07:20 PM   #8
 
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Well I ended up not pulling the harness and double/tripple checking sensors and still no flipping clue...camshaft position sensor seems okay, as does the fuel pressure sensor. I see 12 volts to the hpfp @KOEO but when I "start" the car, nothin. It's like the PCM is not telling the hpfp to do anything at all, which lead me to think there is a sensor issue or just more fucked wiring. After checking sensors again, It's gotta be fucked wiring, but for the life of me i cannot find where the issue is.
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 Old 04-18-2018, 03:07 PM   #9
 
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Any luck? I'm having strange fuel pressure issues too. Total fuel cut as soon as any positive boost pressure. Not sure why, idles fine.
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 Old 04-18-2018, 03:10 PM   #10
 
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None yet...haven't had time to go back out and test wiring. Downloaded workshop manual and it's got literally everything I need but I just haven't gotten off my ass to do it. Getting kinda burnt out.

Sounds like you're maybe having some overboosting issues? Mine did that when one of the vacuum lines cracked going to the BCS. Fuel cut is a great thing because it's preventing your motor from zoom-zoom-boom hahaha. Scared the shit out of me for sure, feels like you hit a brick wall when it cuts like that!
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 Old 04-19-2018, 07:50 AM   #11
 
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Originally Posted by jcolton View Post
None yet...haven't had time to go back out and test wiring. Downloaded workshop manual and it's got literally everything I need but I just haven't gotten off my ass to do it. Getting kinda burnt out.

Sounds like you're maybe having some overboosting issues? Mine did that when one of the vacuum lines cracked going to the BCS. Fuel cut is a great thing because it's preventing your motor from zoom-zoom-boom hahaha. Scared the shit out of me for sure, feels like you hit a brick wall when it cuts like that!

having the exact same issue in for updates
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 Old 04-19-2018, 07:57 AM   #12
 
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Originally Posted by gotslicks View Post
having the exact same issue in for updates
Same issue as myself or as the other poster here? Lol! Not even close to the same problem other than it involves fuel.

Check those vacuum lines to your boost control solenoid, especially if you have higher mileage and stock lines. They get a little brittle as they age and heat and blah blah blah. It's amazing how fast overboost will happen if you have some problem with your wastegate or control solenoid or the lines in between....what looks like a small amount of pressure one moment will quickly become 30+psi once that little bitch spools up. If you have an AP it should tell you what your max psi was before fuel cut
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 Old 04-19-2018, 08:27 AM   #13
 
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I’m having Same issues you are having jcolton. I’m hoping you come up with a soloution because my car has been down for a month.
Beginning to think I may have a ecu issue but I cannot prove it yet.
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 Old 04-19-2018, 08:52 AM   #14
 
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That's what I was leaning towards. Are you having the same exact symptoms? Mine has been down for almost a year now I really miss that little thing. Thinking about buying a new wiring harness to throw in there but it's flipping expensive...

Troubleshooting wiring just sucks...lol!
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 Old 04-19-2018, 10:38 AM   #15
 
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we are in a identical place. everything you described above is where i am. i need a solution.
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 Old 04-25-2018, 06:58 PM   #16
 
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Any updates.
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 Old 04-26-2018, 07:08 PM   #17
 
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Nothing yet. I'm thinking maybe Saturday I'll try to stop being such a lazy fuck and tear into it again.
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 Old 04-26-2018, 08:51 PM   #18
 
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FYI my issue was a bad spill valve power. I ended up cutting the red power at the spill valve plug and running a wire straight to power. I think the ecu went bad on the circuit. Give that a try if you donít have 12v on the red wire on your spill valve while itís at idle.
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 Old 04-26-2018, 08:58 PM   #19
 
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Originally Posted by gotslicks View Post
FYI my issue was a bad spill valve power. I ended up cutting the red power at the spill valve plug and running a wire straight to power. I think the ecu went bad on the circuit. Give that a try if you donít have 12v on the red wire on your spill valve while itís at idle.
Mine does the exact same thing! I had wired it directly to 12 and it has great pressure. Is the spill valve not modulated though? I was under the assumption that the valve is opened and closed rapidly by the ECU? Would a constant 12v screw that up?
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 Old 04-27-2018, 04:53 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by jcolton View Post
Mine does the exact same thing! I had wired it directly to 12 and it has great pressure. Is the spill valve not modulated though? I was under the assumption that the valve is opened and closed rapidly by the ECU? Would a constant 12v screw that up?
It is PWM. Sounds like you've already checked for this signal at the plug while the car is running (it will be a bouncing 0-12V signal due to PWM), so it's potentially a broken wire.

Since you have a second pump and spill valve, you can pull your spare spill valve and plug it in with the car running and poke around the wiring harness to see if it's an intermittent connection.

It will come apart if it starts working, though.

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 Old 04-27-2018, 06:10 AM   #21
 
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Originally Posted by phate View Post
It is PWM. Sounds like you've already checked for this signal at the plug while the car is running (it will be a bouncing 0-12V signal due to PWM), so it's potentially a broken wire.

Since you have a second pump and spill valve, you can pull your spare spill valve and plug it in with the car running and poke around the wiring harness to see if it's an intermittent connection.

It will come apart if it starts working, though.
Thanks Phate for confirming, I was worried about that.
I actually ended up running brand new wire from the connector at the ECU to the spill valve directly and it's the same behavior. Would a faulty wire to another sensor cause that? (No codes on AP to indicate a specific sensor or circuit). Gonna see if I can borrow my buddies oscilloscope this weekend maybe and poke around.

Thanks again man
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 Old 04-28-2018, 05:42 PM   #22
 
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Okay back, and made good progress today. Wiring harness checks out fine, pulled a lot of the shit off of it to visually inspect the wires and they look fine. Toned out a lot of the wires in that shit and it's fine. Resistance across fuel pressure sensor was fine again (double checked because fuck it) camshaft position sensor is fine as well. BUT not the MAP sensor! Got a new 3 bar Bosch on the way. I also fixed some of the wiring to my EBCS as the wires to the connector on the BCS side pulled out a long time ago somehow, and my repair job was janky af. Going to wait for the new MAP sensor before I put the intake manifold back on, and then I'll report back with any progress.

Edit: Forgot to mention buddy didn't want me taking his expensive ass oscilloscope so I can't report on signal to fuel pump solenoid from ecu.
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 Old 05-01-2018, 02:42 PM   #23
 
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Originally Posted by gotslicks View Post
FYI my issue was a bad spill valve power. I ended up cutting the red power at the spill valve plug and running a wire straight to power. I think the ecu went bad on the circuit. Give that a try if you don’t have 12v on the red wire on your spill valve while it’s at idle.
Did your car throw any codes when you started having this issue?

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 Old 06-03-2018, 07:33 AM   #24
 
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Jcolt,

Did replacing the MAP sensor ever fix the issue?
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 Old 06-03-2018, 07:59 AM   #25
 
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Originally Posted by Oxinatah View Post
Jcolt,

Did replacing the MAP sensor ever fix the issue?
If my garage doesn't turn into the raging inferno of hell today I'm gonna try to repair that plug/pigtail. Got a new sensor and the wires I don't think are correct. Found this so I'm going to try and get it sorted.
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 Old 06-05-2018, 09:24 AM   #26
 
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Jcolt, I feel you on the excessively hot temperatures in the garage!

Were you able to put any work into it yet?
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 Old 06-05-2018, 09:35 AM   #27
 
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Originally Posted by Oxinatah View Post
Jcolt, I feel you on the excessively hot temperatures in the garage!

Were you able to put any work into it yet?
I'm sorry man but I totally didn't. I'm a bit of a pansy when it comes to being overheated anymore...I had a skin thing called SJS that now after healing any time i get overheated it feels like needles all over my body!

Looks like it's going to be rainy/cool this Saturday, so I'm going to plan on doing it then! I'll for sure update this post when I do. Everything else checks out okay, but once I get this sensor squared away we will see if I get any additional/different codes and go from there.

Are you having some trouble with your ride?
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 Old 06-05-2018, 09:55 AM   #28
 
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My trouble is interesting.... lol

After I installed aftermarket HPFP internals, I started up the car. It ran a little odd (RPMs would rise and drop). Shortly the engine turned off and I haven't been able to get it to start since. I have an AP and since I'm new to the platform, idk what I'm looking for on the numbers, but have been told that the HPFP isn't developing pressure.

So it seems to be a similar issue I think.
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 Old 06-05-2018, 10:07 AM   #29
 
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Originally Posted by Oxinatah View Post
My trouble is interesting.... lol

After I installed aftermarket HPFP internals, I started up the car. It ran a little odd (RPMs would rise and drop). Shortly the engine turned off and I haven't been able to get it to start since. I have an AP and since I'm new to the platform, idk what I'm looking for on the numbers, but have been told that the HPFP isn't developing pressure.

So it seems to be a similar issue I think.
Well that doesn't sound fun at all!! Check this out if you haven't seen it yet
HPFP Troubleshooting | CorkSport Mazda Performance Blog

So on your AP, make sure you have HPFP pressure as a monitor and see what happens when you try to start the car. You should see ~60-70psi with the key over and engine off, this is your electric fuel pump in the fuel tank. So make sure that's good first, and when you start your car you should see upwards of 400psi right away.

If not, first thing I would check is your spill valve on the HPFP, it's really easy to get to and easy to clean. Just be careful not to lose the little parts in there because they will spring out as you take it apart.
HOW TO: Remove & Disassemble HPFP Spill Valve

If that still is not good, take your fuel pump back out, take it apart and inspect your internals and the O-ring. You shouldn't see any scoring or scuffing on the piston and you shouldn't see any cracks or breaks in the O-ring.

If that's STILL no bueno, you might be having trouble with the fuel pressure relief valve, as that's another common failure point. They are spendy little fuckers though so hopefully just cleaning things out a bit will give it the kick in the ass it needs!

Let me know where you get if all of that doesn't work, and I bet we can figure something out.
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 Old 06-05-2018, 02:25 PM   #30
 
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Yeah, it doesn't ever go about 60-70ish psi on the AP.

CS has been working with me to try and help me troubleshoot this issue, and they're kinda stumped it seems. They're the ones who actually found your post and directed me here haha.

I actually bought a 2nd HPFP housing and installed the internals in it after I had the issue, and I'm having the same issue.
I tried using a voltmeter to check to see if the spill valve is getting any sort of power while the key is in the on position", but it isn't producing any electricity. I'm not sure if this is normal or not?

All the internals and everything seem fine. I've taken it a part and put it all back together so many times haha, but nothing seems damaged.

I already removewd the pressure relieve valve to check it (was told to basically blow in it, and if I can't blow air through it, it's still good).

I appreciate your help!
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 Old 06-06-2018, 04:18 AM   #31
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The only time the spill valve gets voltage is when the car is cranking or on. Have someone crank the car over and check, you should get a bouncing ~10V signal since it's PWM.

To check spill valve operation, jumper it with 12V and listen for the click. It's just a solenoid.
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 Old 06-06-2018, 09:10 AM   #32
 
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Thanks Phate, will do!
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 Old 06-09-2018, 01:27 PM   #33
 
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Great success!!!!! Been way too long but shes finally running decent-ish. Better than it has in over a year for sure!

At the end of the day I think it was a combination of MAP sensor taking a shit and awful wiring, then exacerbated throughout the process with my noobish mechanic skills/lack of experience.

The first issue with the car losing fuel pressure and barely making it home, I believe was a combination of the fucked up wiring that I seem to have inherited from the guy that this car was apparently repossessed from before I bought it(found that awesomeness out recently) and my oem MAP sensor taking a shit. I replaced a lot of the parts throughout this process on "idk but it's worth a shot" logic, after a couple months of smashing my head into a wall trying to figure it out. I was at my wits end but didn't want to give up and take it to a real mechanic, I wanted to figure it out on my own so fucking bad lol.

One of the last things that I did after repairing the jacked up wiring was throw in a Bosch MAP sensor that I had picked up from a fellow NATOR member on facebook a while ago, and had no reason until that point to put it in. I adjusted my tune accordingly, however while I had (I think) resolved my other issues, I had created a new one by splicing that busted ass MAP sensor in.

After going through the wiring harness and replacing a few wires that seemed sketchy, replacing the MAP sensor with a NEW one and wiring that in correctly, and just honestly cleaning a lot of the parts (ITFP filter was f-ing disgusting, spill valve on HPFP was functioning but dirty, replace relief valve and cleaned up fuel injectors. pcv was also disgusting and I cleaned the intake manifold out as best I could which was pretty gross where EGR used to be) It finally effing lives.

Thanks to all who offered help and advice, I really appreciate your help! Also just have to say HUGE thank you to MSF for the help in finding a workshop manual to double check literally everything in this car.

If I had to do this over again, I'd say step one, acquire workshop manual. step two, ???. step three profit. lol
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