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MazdaSpeed 3/6 - Fuel, Nitrous & Water Injection MazdaSpeed 3/6 - Fuel, Nitrous & Water Injection Have a CDFP fuel pump question? Do you want to add Nitrous or Water Injection to your Mazdaspeed 3/6 ? Please come on in!


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 Old 09-10-2014, 01:07 PM   #1
 
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Default Gas Fill Issue - Evap Hose?

I've had this issue since June. Gas filler stops every tenth of a gallon like the tank is full. I've read it may be a clogged evap hose. I pulled the fender liner and checked the canister by the filler neck. There isn't anything there that looks like it need to be unclogged. I also looked at the rear subframe and saw hoses going into the charcoal canister.

Which hose should I be trying to unclog? I found this diagram from an MS6 and am not sure if the MS3 is different. Any input would be great. Car runs fine otherwise, just a pita to fill up. Thanks.
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 Old 09-10-2014, 01:11 PM   #2
 
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What if you disconnect the hose where it is marked "3/4" here?

This way you should be VTA. Now if you try to refill, if it is still hard you know the problem is toward the charcoal canister, if the gas flows then it must be that the air filter side is fucked.
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 Old 09-10-2014, 01:15 PM   #3
 
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Originally Posted by blam1 View Post
I've had this issue since June. Gas filler stops every tenth of a gallon like the tank is full. I've read it may be a clogged evap hose. I pulled the fender liner and checked the canister by the filler neck. There isn't anything there that looks like it need to be unclogged. I also looked at the rear subframe and saw hoses going into the charcoal canister.

Which hose should I be trying to unclog? I found this diagram from an MS6 and am not sure if the MS3 is different. Any input would be great. Car runs fine otherwise, just a pita to fill up. Thanks.
Are you that guy that keeps trying to pump more gas even after the pump shuts off?
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 Old 09-10-2014, 01:19 PM   #4
 
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 Old 09-10-2014, 01:20 PM   #5
 
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I had this problem on my 98 Altima ( The gas pump stopped pumping every 1/10 of a gallon even when fully empty).

My evap purge solonoid on the charcoal canister was stuck closed (from corrosion). If i held the gas nozzle out of the fill hole a bit so it wouldn't stop it would just overflow.

Perhaps #4 in your diagram could be the culprate.
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 Old 09-10-2014, 01:33 PM   #6
 
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It also happens when you.......










Wait for it..........
















Top it off.
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 Old 09-10-2014, 01:39 PM   #7
 
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Thanks I'll try both.
@btstarcher; I am that guy that clicks the filler 100+ times per fillup, 1/10 of a gallon at a time from empty. Someone inside is probably thinking WTF is this guy doing?

Are you that someone?
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 Old 09-10-2014, 02:22 PM   #8
 
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Originally Posted by btstarcher View Post
It also happens when you.......










Wait for it..........
















Top it off.
My Gen Pu does not take anywhere near the rated tank capacity unless I top it off. If I fill till the pump shuts off from empty I only get 11 gallons and about 230 miles of range. If I top off I get 15 gallons in and about 310 miles of range. It has been that way since I bought it, so I top it off.

Of course no matter how hard I top it off I never get the range Mazda published for the car.
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 Old 09-10-2014, 02:28 PM   #9
 
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Check the cv solenoid. (Pull the whole canister out) Usually if it locks up it's hard to fill the tank. Any check engine light?

Another one I found was a angry exgf that put shit into the tank (attempted to) the rollover valve saved it all in the filler neck.
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 Old 09-10-2014, 02:30 PM   #10
 
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Originally Posted by darthxar View Post
My Gen Pu does not take anywhere near the rated tank capacity unless I top it off. If I fill till the pump shuts off from empty I only get 11 gallons and about 230 miles of range. If I top off I get 15 gallons in and about 310 miles of range. It has been that way since I bought it, so I top it off.

Of course no matter how hard I top it off I never get the range Mazda published for the car.
SMH..... That's because your tank is never bone dry when you fill it. There is supposed to be an air pocket in your tank. I will never understand why people feel the need to cram every last drop of gas into their tank. Don't complain if you have to replace your charcoal canister because you keep flooding it with gas.
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 Old 09-10-2014, 03:04 PM   #11
 
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Originally Posted by Chron View Post
SMH..... That's because your tank is never bone dry when you fill it. There is supposed to be an air pocket in your tank. I will never understand why people feel the need to cram every last drop of gas into their tank. Don't complain if you have to replace your charcoal canister because you keep flooding it with gas.
Fair enough, I know that topping off can cause issues with the evap system, but having to fill up every couple hundred miles when you are supposed to have a 15.9 gallon tank is annoying. Especially when hand calculated mileage is 20MPG and you should be getting 300 miles out of 15 gallons.

Of course this could all be solved by more realistic low fuel light levels, and a gas gauge that was even sort of linear, but not much we can do about that.
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 Old 09-11-2014, 09:08 PM   #12
 
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Originally Posted by ALPINEST4RS View Post
Check the cv solenoid. (Pull the whole canister out) Usually if it locks up it's hard to fill the tank. Any check engine light?

Another one I found was a angry exgf that put shit into the tank (attempted to) the rollover valve saved it all in the filler neck.
This is next up. Tried the 3/4 with no luck. No cel either. Car runs perfectly. My filler neck block off is cocked to one side. Not sure if that is normal. Will take a picture later
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 Old 09-11-2014, 10:25 PM   #13
 
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So here are a few pics. First of the 3/4 hose that runs from a plastic canister near the camber arm, removed with no change. Then a picture of the gas filler flap closed and opened with pen. It looks off to the right. Not sure if that is normal or would cause an issue. The hinge is near the hard line that comes off the filler neck and into the charcoal canister by the filler neck.Not sure if that would be the "block" but I going to see if the canister can be unhooked or maybe try to remove the white plastic ring in the filler neck and see if that is blocking the hard line out.

If all else fails then I just take longer to fill up and someone inside my E85 station will keep saying WTF? Oh that guy again...
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 Old 09-12-2014, 05:37 AM   #14
 
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Since you have no DTCs (hopefully none pending)..

Take a look at this. Its pretty simple since you have no CEL. Check the shut off valve. If you need help locating it let me know.
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Does anything change with fill up time if you tilt the gas nozzle one way or another? Or even upside down?
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 Old 09-12-2014, 10:25 AM   #16
 
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Originally Posted by ALPINEST4RS View Post
Since you have no DTCs (hopefully none pending)..

Take a look at this. Its pretty simple since you have no CEL. Check the shut off valve. If you need help locating it let me know.
Is the non-return valve the hinged flap in my picture? If so then I'll have a project this weekend to remove the pipe and charcoal canister above the subframe. It's such a silly issue to have but I'd rather this than anything engine related.

I'll also try filling upside down, so far every which way but upsidedown. I'll update with a win or fail. Thanks
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 Old 09-12-2014, 11:05 AM   #17
 
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On a Turbo, it's part of the tank. So if the valve is bad its full tank replacement. This will help you test atleast.
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 Old 09-12-2014, 12:37 PM   #18
 
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Do you always fill at the same gas station? Or does it happen at all of them. I have this same issue with my miata sometimes, but it's only at 1 or 2 gas stations, all the others work fine, not sure what the reason is, but something in the pump design might affect it.
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 Old 09-12-2014, 01:35 PM   #19
 
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I fail at 3 local e85 stations and about 5 other 91 stations. Overall 4 different chains all with the same results. I was hoping to find spiders under the car and have it just be a clogged tube. I'll figure it out this weekend
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 Old 09-12-2014, 05:37 PM   #20
 
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Originally Posted by Spencer@CorkSport View Post
Do you always fill at the same gas station? Or does it happen at all of them. I have this same issue with my miata sometimes, but it's only at 1 or 2 gas stations, all the others work fine, not sure what the reason is, but something in the pump design might affect it.
Very good point. Garbage Motors (GM) actually had the nerve to put up a bulletin about that, instead of fixing the initial problem with certain filler necks. They did, THEN the vent solenoids would just blow out. I mean, who the fuck puts the vent solenoid behind the left rear tire on 80% of their models, gm of course. On top of that, produces the cheapest shit on the planet. (Sound broke out of the box). I'm bored at Mazda, lol.

Sorry for the rant. . OP good luck, if you need anymore information on the EVAP system I have it all.

If you can drop the tank down a little and check to see if any hoses are kinked that'd be the way to go. I'm really surprised that you don't have a cel. Mazda's pretty crazy about EVAP.

Also, if you're local to a dealer. Have them run a EVAP test through ids. It will test for vac, hold pressure, and vent. Very thorough diag tool. It will tell you exactly what's going on and could lead you to an easier diagnosis as well.
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 Old 09-12-2014, 08:09 PM   #21
 
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Originally Posted by ALPINEST4RS View Post
Also, if you're local to a dealer. Have them run a EVAP test through ids. It will test for vac, hold pressure, and vent. Very thorough diag tool. It will tell you exactly what's going on and could lead you to an easier diagnosis as well.

How much do you poke people in the eyes for this test?
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 Old 09-12-2014, 08:18 PM   #22
 
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Free. It's a service bay test. I include it in the free check engine light scan we offer.
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 Old 09-23-2014, 04:20 PM   #23
 
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@ALPINEST4RS; do you have instructions to remove the evap unit? I was under the car and saw several of the bolts but don't know if I need ot drop the subframe to access the others. I see a few that I can't reach with everything in.

BTW, I saw two CEL's after I disconnected the hose to the charcoal canister. Also, called two locals dealers and they want $100+ for diagnostic to run EVAP test.
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 Old 09-23-2014, 04:47 PM   #24
 
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Ugh, fucking mazda dealers I tell ya .

Just lower the crossmember. You may get enough room to sneak it out. When you get the parts out, LMK. I have inspection directions too for the leak detection pump and canister.
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 Old 10-14-2015, 10:43 AM   #25
 
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Ok replaced evap canister and leak detection pump, but no dice. Will look at fuel fillet neck and tank valve next
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 Old 10-14-2015, 12:10 PM   #26
 
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Bummer man. Remove the filler neck and see if anything is stuck in it. Some necks have orifices that regulate flow into the tank to prevent splash back.
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 Old 10-14-2015, 01:28 PM   #27
 
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We have been talking back and forth since were having similar issues. Mine came about after my car sat for 4-5 months during my build. Going to start troubleshooting soon, until then I will just keep pumping slow.
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 Old 11-02-2015, 09:04 PM   #28
 
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Any updates? I'm having the same issue.

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 Old 11-03-2015, 01:48 AM   #29
 
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I just fill slow. Don't have time to get into fuel tank/filler neck trouble shooting yet
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 Old 11-06-2015, 12:22 AM   #30
 
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Originally Posted by blam1 View Post
I just fill slow. Don't have time to get into fuel tank/filler neck trouble shooting yet
So I'm not sure what changed but I was able to fill up straight with E85 and 91 pumps. Maybe it took time for the lines to clear after swapping evap/charcoal canisters/pump
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