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MazdaSpeed 3/6 - Fuel, Nitrous & Water Injection MazdaSpeed 3/6 - Fuel, Nitrous & Water Injection Have a CDFP fuel pump question? Do you want to add Nitrous or Water Injection to your Mazdaspeed 3/6 ? Please come on in!


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 Old 05-23-2013, 01:14 PM   #1
 
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Default methanol injection MAF failsafe

So I'm looking into methanol injection and I like the idea of snow performance's MAF based injection system. I'm wanting to tune for it so it's almost necessary for me to get a fail safe. Now whether I go with the aem or snow performance one, I'm not sure it'll even work... help me understand this here: if my methanol injection will be based off of air flow, if my meth flow stops and my failsafe cuts my boost (Wastegate or guardian angle, etc), will that even help at all? Won't my car still run lean? The maf won't be unaffected so the same amount of meth well still be called to be injected but none will come out. Or is it ok to run a little lean as long as not under boost? Also, is there really a big difference for cutting boost at wastegate vs bpv?
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 Old 05-23-2013, 01:17 PM   #2
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With a D07 nozzle and below and 50/50 you don't need to pull any fueling from your tune in the first place. So fueling is not the problem, however timing advance is. With WMI you will be able to run a lot more timing so if it shuts off you will get knock.

To reduce knock if it happens during a run, reducing boost is effective. You can reduce it by cutting the WG signal, or using GA and opening the BPV and it depends from setup to setup which will get you lower boost.
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 Old 05-23-2013, 01:19 PM   #3
 
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Originally Posted by Lex View Post
With a D07 nozzle and below and 50/50 you don't need to pull any fueling from your tune in the first place. So fueling is not the problem, however timing advance is. With WMI you will be able to run a lot more timing so if it shuts off you will get knock.

To reduce knock if it happens during a run, reducing boost is effective. You can reduce it by cutting the WG signal, or using GA and opening the BPV and it depends from setup to setup which will get you lower boost.
Shit, you can run that much meth without altering fueling tables? I'm guessing it'll at least make your AFRs ~.2 richer, or is it really 0 change needed?
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 Old 05-23-2013, 01:28 PM   #4
 
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Originally Posted by Lex View Post
With a D07 nozzle and below and 50/50 you don't need to pull any fueling from your tune in the first place. So fueling is not the problem, however timing advance is. With WMI you will be able to run a lot more timing so if it shuts off you will get knock.

To reduce knock if it happens during a run, reducing boost is effective. You can reduce it by cutting the WG signal, or using GA and opening the BPV and it depends from setup to setup which will get you lower boost.
Thanks!! That was exactly what I was looking for. It's funny cause I'm actually coming to you for a tune when I get this and a couple other things down. While I'm at it, could you explain how the GA solves the rich VTA problem? I understand it stops leaking, but isn't 'leaking' what you want when it's commanded to vent? Cause isn't that how the air is released? And the air is still 'lost'. So how does the ga do it's magic and stop the rich fuel mixture at shifts?
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 Old 05-23-2013, 01:47 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by bigmike View Post
Thanks!! That was exactly what I was looking for. It's funny cause I'm actually coming to you for a tune when I get this and a couple other things down. While I'm at it, could you explain how the GA solves the rich VTA problem? I understand it stops leaking, but isn't 'leaking' what you want when it's commanded to vent? Cause isn't that how the air is released? And the air is still 'lost'. So how does the ga do it's magic and stop the rich fuel mixture at shifts?
The GA controls how the BPV is opened and when so that it allows the air to vent but less than it would without it. The idea here is that it's not whether or not air vents, it's how much air vents and the GA addresses that improving driveability while VTA.
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 Old 05-23-2013, 01:55 PM   #6
 
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Originally Posted by Roddiy View Post
Shit, you can run that much meth without altering fueling tables? I'm guessing it'll at least make your AFRs ~.2 richer, or is it really 0 change needed?
Our cars have WOT fuel trims that should correct for the slightly rich mixture.
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 Old 05-23-2013, 02:13 PM   #7
 
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Originally Posted by Lex View Post
The GA controls how the BPV is opened and when so that it allows the air to vent but less than it would without it. The idea here is that it's not whether or not air vents, it's how much air vents and the GA addresses that improving driveability while VTA.
So does that mean this feature could improve a standard recirculating BPV as well?
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 Old 05-23-2013, 02:19 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by bigmike View Post
So does that mean this feature could improve a standard recirculating BPV as well?
It will make it react faster so in a sense yes.
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 Old 05-23-2013, 08:04 PM   #9
 
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Originally Posted by Lex View Post
It will make it react faster so in a sense yes.
Thanks I appreciate it... and last thing while I'm at it again lol since I'm gonna have you tune this, are boost based meth injection set ups easier to tune for than maf or is the opposite? It seems like to me looking at the tables that since boost is controlled rather than air flow that it would be easier and more reliable to use boost. But again I really have no idea; I'm just reasoning. A maf system seems to me like it might be nice to have for when boost increases very quickly, but I'm not sure how predictable the methanol concentration is. Is any of that right? Do you have a preference on what to tune? Maybe I should be emailing you this... lol
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 Old 05-24-2013, 12:07 PM   #10
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Meth kits do not meter injection in a fine way - they are mostly either on or off. You can save your money and get a simple pressure switch (stage 1) and set it to 8-10psi instead of a progressive controller unless you run very large nozzles. With a D07 nozzle you won't have an issue.

The only system that meters injection is Aquamist that I know of.

I like pressure based simply because you don't splice into your MAF/OEM wiring. Failure of that sensor or wiring will cause a lot of headaches.
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 Old 05-24-2013, 04:14 PM   #11
 
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Originally Posted by Lex View Post
Meth kits do not meter injection in a fine way - they are mostly either on or off. You can save your money and get a simple pressure switch (stage 1) and set it to 8-10psi instead of a progressive controller unless you run very large nozzles. With a D07 nozzle you won't have an issue.

The only system that meters injection is Aquamist that I know of.

I like pressure based simply because you don't splice into your MAF/OEM wiring. Failure of that sensor or wiring will cause a lot of headaches.
Great information! Expect to see me soon
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Originally Posted by Lex View Post
Meth kits do not meter injection in a fine way - they are mostly either on or off. You can save your money and get a simple pressure switch (stage 1) and set it to 8-10psi instead of a progressive controller unless you run very large nozzles. With a D07 nozzle you won't have an issue.

The only system that meters injection is Aquamist that I know of.

I like pressure based simply because you don't splice into your MAF/OEM wiring. Failure of that sensor or wiring will cause a lot of headaches.
Hey I know this is an old thread, but I can't seem to find what I'm looking for so I'll just ask the pro. I just bought a stage 1 snow performance kit from Stratified and am waiting for it to arrive. Although its a fixed spray system, I may decide to tune for it using a 50/50 mix. Is there a way to incorporate a fail safe system into a stage 1 kit?

I was thinking of using the guardian angel to open the bpv if the system fails, but I don't know what would trigger it, any help would be sweet.
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