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MazdaSpeed 3/6 - Fuel, Nitrous & Water Injection MazdaSpeed 3/6 - Fuel, Nitrous & Water Injection Have a CDFP fuel pump question? Do you want to add Nitrous or Water Injection to your Mazdaspeed 3/6 ? Please come on in!


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 Old 02-14-2012, 08:02 PM   #1
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Default THE OFFICIAL HPFP CDFP FUEL PUMP THREAD

****2015 update, thanks @SarcasticOne;!
The following applies to all 2.3 MZR DISI powered mazdas as they all share the same pump. (ms3 both gens- ms6- cx-7)

GENERAL

Direct injected engines require a far higher fuel pressure then a port injected engine. This is why we have two fuel pumps. We have an in-tank pump and a high pressure cam driven pump.

The high pressure pump is commonly referred to on this site as the HPFP(high pressure fuel pump) and occasionaly as a CDFP(cam driven fuel pump)

The in-tank pump sends fuel at a low pressure to the HPFP which vastly increases the pressure and sends the fuel to the injectors.

For a very basic overview, here's a MSPaint picture:

From the fuel tank, fuel gets pumped via an "in tank fuel pump" (ITFP) at ~50-60psi through the red "line"... that's enough pressure for your port injectors, and it's really all about how much fuel it can flow, rather than the pressure.
The HPFP then takes this fuel, and pressurizes it up to 1600+ psi...

As you modify your car and make more power the engine requires more fuel to feed the ignition process. At some point the stock HPFP will lack the ability to keep up with fuel demands. When this happens your engine enters a dangerous scary world of possible boom.
Thankfully we have some upgrade options making real power a possibility for us.

So how do you know when you need to upgrade?

The ONLY real way to know positively is through a logging/ ecu data device which can read/log your fuel pressure, such as an access port or dashhawk. Any thing under 1600 psi at WOT is a case of needing an upgrade. However, many would say to upgrade before it is NEEDED. Who wants to drive around like a grandma while waiting for parts and install anyways?

What does this look like in your logs? Well, something like this:



See how it's dropping below 1600psi? this is a sure sign that the HPFP is not capable of keeping up with the fueling demands.

The modification level that requires a HPFP uprade varies from model to model, gen to gen, and even car to car. (READ THE PARAGRAPH ABOVE AGAIN)

GEN 1 MS3 & MS6
Most low level flow mods are ok( intake,test pipe, CBE etc)
Add an upgraded intercooler or a tune and your pushing it.
Add a downpipe and you might as well get the internals installed FIRST.
Don't even think about upgrading your turbo without an upgrade.

GEN 2 MS3
The genpu does not play as nice with the HPFP.
Many need an upgrade with just an intake, and Cobb states that some HPFP's will not keep up with stage 1 maps.
Upgrade should be very early on your list.

CX-7****
Much like MS3's, refer to 1st and 2nd Gen MS3 above

I cannot say this enough the ONLY way to know for sure is through logging.

OPTIONS

So you've decided to upgrade, now what? Well, you can either buy yourself an upgraded pump, or save some money and buy upgraded pump internals to install into the pump yourself. The full pump is about as easy as it can get to install, but many members here have installed internals themselves with no issues(this is the route most take).

All these items are available from many different vendors both on MSF and not, and at varying prices. I am only linking to the manufacturers site and giving their prices.
You will notice some are listed as VW/AUDI parts, this is because we share a common HPFP with some of their engines- do not worry about that

I will list the internals kits first.
Autotech
part number 10-127-100k $399.95
VW Performance - Autotech Sport Tuning: Hi-Volume Fuel Pump UpGrade Kit 2.0T FSI


KMD
part number 03020 $329.95
Audi - A3 - 2.0T FSI - Engine - KMD Tuning - 2.0T FSI High Pressure Fuel Pump Kit - KMD Tuning & Engineering


HPFPupgrade(ptp)
part number HPFP00005 $349.00
Mazda DISI Do It Yourself Pump Internals | HPFPUpgrade.com



CorkSport Max Flow Fuel Pump
part number Gen-6-999-10 $349.99
CorkSport Max Flow HPFP Fuel Pump Internals


Now for the full pumps
Most pumps will require you to pay a core charge added to the price of the pump, when you install your new pump you send your old pump back to them and get your core charge refunded back to you.

CP-E
part number MZR23HPFP $667.56+$350 core
MZR DISI 2.3 HPFpump


HPFP upgrade(ptp)
2 options

1-upgrade your pump(send it to them, they upgrade it and send it back)
part number HPFP00004
A-stage 1 $549.00 B-stage 2 $799.00
Mazda DISI Upgrade Your Pump | HPFPUpgrade.com


2-complete HPFP(prebuilt and core charge-no wait)
part number HPFP00003
A-stage 1 $549.00+$350.00 core B-stage 2 $799.00+$350.00 core
Mazda DISI Complete High Pressure Fuel Pump | HPFPUpgrade.com



Need some help with install?
Luckily you've found the best damn Mazdaspeed tech site in the world and we can help you with that.

Fuel Pump internals Install!

CDFP internals upgrade

How-to: Install your Autotech fuel pump internals
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 Old 02-14-2012, 08:08 PM   #2
 
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Protip, compliments of @superskaterxes when he helped me with my install: you don't need to remove battery box or TIP/TIH when doing this install. There is enough room for you to do it without removing all that crap. End result is a lot less time spent doing the install.
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 Old 02-14-2012, 08:28 PM   #3
 
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Well written...this may stop all the other over talked about pump questions...props!!
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 Old 02-15-2012, 02:00 PM   #4
 
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I had a suggestion. Might you add something about the reliability of the kits listed above? I know that there have been some sketchy players in the past. Are all of the parts listed above high quality (or at least seem to be so far)?
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 Old 02-15-2012, 03:42 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by sharky View Post
I had a suggestion. Might you add something about the reliability of the kits listed above? I know that there have been some sketchy players in the past. Are all of the parts listed above high quality (or at least seem to be so far)?
My understanding is that all these "official" threads are supposed to be unbiased as far as listings of products. Pre purchase research is always a good idea anyways. Hopefuly these threads will be around a long while and this way they will not need to be changed if a vendor goes to shit.
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 Old 03-20-2012, 04:17 PM   #6
 
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Probably a stupid question but does upgrading the HPFP make you lose MPG? The way I see it it does.
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 Old 03-20-2012, 04:33 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by xI Leveler Ix View Post
Probably a stupid question but does upgrading the HPFP make you lose MPG? The way I see it it does.
No it does not. The ecu decides how long to open the injector based on the fuel rail pressure(amongst other things ofcourse).

Anyways while cruising the upgraded pump will be putting out about the same pressure as a properly working stocker. It's only at WOT that the stock pump cant keep up with flow demand at required pressure.
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 Old 03-20-2012, 04:44 PM   #8
 
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YES! Thank you so much! I was pretty worried about it. Cause I'm looking at getting the Genpu and I realize its a much needed mod (practically mandatory), and I drive everyday 50+ miles, so I need as best gas mileage as possible....You know when I'm not squashing hondas
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 Old 03-23-2012, 06:19 PM   #9
 
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Fuck off. Racecar!
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 Old 04-16-2012, 11:56 AM   #10
 
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So, If my '12 ms3 is getting a lean code with a cai, should I upgrade the pump or get it tuned to fix it? Not looking for too much power, 300 would be good.
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 Old 04-16-2012, 12:50 PM   #11
 
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Originally Posted by Jerd2189 View Post
So, If my '12 ms3 is getting a lean code with a cai, should I upgrade the pump or get it tuned to fix it? Not looking for too much power, 300 would be good.
What pressure is your AP logging at WOT?

I believe I know the answer so tread lightly.


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 Old 04-16-2012, 04:17 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Jerd2189 View Post
So, If my '12 ms3 is getting a lean code with a cai, should I upgrade the pump or get it tuned to fix it? Not looking for too much power, 300 would be good.
99% of lean codes have nothing to do with your fuel pump---- you should be looking for a vac leak first thing.
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 Old 04-16-2012, 05:35 PM   #13
 
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I just did an internal install and my idle fuel pressure is down to 60 PSI, it will climb up to around 300 with a but of throttle. Everything seams to be installed correctly and moving nicely. I followed the AT instruction and removed and cleaned everything ensuring to reinstall everything as it came out. Advice?
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 Old 04-16-2012, 05:41 PM   #14
 
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Originally Posted by Blackrider View Post
I just did an internal install and my idle fuel pressure is down to 60 PSI, it will climb up to around 300 with a but of throttle. Everything seams to be installed correctly and moving nicely. I fallowed the AT instruction and removed and cleaned everything ensuring to reinstall everything as it came out. Advice?
Take it out and double check everything. 60 psi at idle is very low. Mine idles 410-430 psi. blip of my throttle is around 600-800 psi. Make sure the O-ring isnt torn and the clips are in place.

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 Old 04-16-2012, 06:05 PM   #15
 
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Originally Posted by hung380 View Post
Take it out and double check everything. 60 psi at idle is very low. Mine idles 410-430 psi. blip of my throttle is around 600-800 psi. Make sure the O-ring isnt torn and the clips are in place.

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Yeah, I'm going to have to. You can tell the engines not happy with me right now. I just watched some install videos and I honestly cant think of anything I did wrong.
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 Old 04-21-2012, 03:01 PM   #16
 
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I showed up today to work on it, started it up, and it held 430PSI. I let it idle for a bit and it was still holding 430PSI. So I took it for a drive and it was hitting all its pressure targets. Perhaps there was a nasty air bubble on the LP side that worked it way out. I have no idea. But I put about 50KM on it today before my Access Port died and it seams to be running great. Now I have to find out why my AP took a dump!
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 Old 04-21-2012, 03:10 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Blackrider View Post
I showed up today to work on it, started it up, and it held 430PSI. I let it idle for a bit and it was still holding 430PSI. So I took it for a drive and it was hitting all its pressure targets. Perhaps there was a nasty air bubble on the LP side that worked it way out. I have no idea. But I put about 50KM on it today before my Access Port died and it seams to be running great. Now I have to find out why my AP took a dump!
At 60 psi you were running off the in tank fuel pump psi.
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 Old 04-21-2012, 03:17 PM   #18
 
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Originally Posted by G26 View Post
At 60 psi you were running off the in tank fuel pump psi.
That was my guess, I was about to get more pressure out of it when reving however, everything looks to be good now... Other than my AP!
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 Old 04-26-2012, 03:28 AM   #19
 
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I think i must have missed something. What makes the motor enter a dangerous area of possible boom if the stock fuel pump doesn't meet the fuel demand? Would you not just hit some peak limit and then back down? Thanks in advance.
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 Old 04-26-2012, 10:21 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by jrocket420a View Post
Would you not just hit some peak limit and then back down? Thanks in advance.
Not sure what you mean by that,but the fuel does not like to atomize properly at lower pressures amongst other things.
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 Old 04-26-2012, 01:08 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by jrocket420a View Post
I think i must have missed something. What makes the motor enter a dangerous area of possible boom if the stock fuel pump doesn't meet the fuel demand?
You would lean out. More air than fuel. Read: What Are the Dangers of Running Lean? | eHow.com

Would you not just hit some peak limit and then back down? Thanks in advance.
I get the impression you're not entirely sure what you're asking about. Nothing to be ashamed of, everyone is ignorant at one point or another.
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 Old 04-26-2012, 01:28 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by CWP_MS3 View Post
You would lean out. More air than fuel. Read: What Are the Dangers of Running Lean? | eHow.com
.
No- truth is most do not lean out. In a PI motor you would be correct, in our case the stock pump can flow the quantity of fuel no problem(in most cases). Its the pressure that dwindles and in response to the low psi the ecu in fact adds more fuel further lowering the pressure and decreasing atomization to the point of possible fuel puddling etc.


I do not mean to call you out here-- I simply do not want people thinking as long as AFR's stay on target they are ok.
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 Old 04-26-2012, 01:32 PM   #23
 
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yes its a vicious cycle: low pressure, ecu dumps fuel further straining pump, pig rich, low pressure etc...
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 Old 04-26-2012, 01:47 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by themytb View Post
I do not mean to call you out here-- I simply do not want people thinking as long as AFR's stay on target they are ok.
Not at all man; I don't mind being wrong. I appreciate learning new things. Thanks for the correction. So what actually bends the rods then if its not leaning out.
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 Old 04-26-2012, 03:06 PM   #25
 
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Ah ok i see it. By "hitting some peak", i was figuring you'd start running lean and to compensate the ecu would possibly close the throttle or something like that to regain air/fuel balance. But the ECU regulating fuel demand makes more sense. Thanks guys.
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 Old 04-26-2012, 06:18 PM   #26
 
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Wait, (sorry trying to rationalize all this in my head and why i should get an HPFP upgrade), if fuel pressure goes down, wouldn't this mean less fuel enters the cylinder to an extent that the motor will just shut off? Is the danger in a possible blow-up due to the fuel INSIDE the pump itself as its overworking to meet demands?
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 Old 04-26-2012, 07:42 PM   #27
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Ecu regulates injector pulse width(time the inj is open) based on fuel rail pressure and amount of fuel requested. So if the ecu sees a lower pressure than it expects it just opens the injectors for a longer period of time.

It is hard on the pump to try to keep up when it is past its potential, but this is not the boom im speaking of. Boom means one of your rods taking a tour of the engine bay.
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 Old 04-26-2012, 07:48 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by jrocket420a View Post
Wait, (sorry trying to rationalize all this in my head and why i should get an HPFP upgrade), if fuel pressure goes down, wouldn't this mean less fuel enters the cylinder to an extent that the motor will just shut off? Is the danger in a possible blow-up due to the fuel INSIDE the pump itself as its overworking to meet demands?
Also, you have a lot of reading to do. It is a lot to take in, I know. Keep learning, the knowledge on this forum is astounding. Eventually you will be trying to teach noobs stuff and telling them to..............................DONATE!
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 Old 04-27-2012, 03:21 AM   #29
 
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Ah thanks a lot man. You've definitely been helping me. And i will know doubt definitely continue to check this site out for information. That cleared up a lot of stuff.
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 Old 05-17-2012, 02:08 PM   #30
 
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Has anyone experience fuel leaking into the motor via the cdfp after upgrading the internals? Assuming both o-rings (inside pump and the one that joins to the motor) are okay, is it possible that the pump could leak from the internals while in operation? I'm refering to where the internals are actually outside the pump under the spring where it is in contact with the cam?
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 Old 05-21-2012, 12:12 PM   #31
 
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@Javi

<edit>
also, the HPFPupgrade internals are just $299.95, not $349.99 as listed in OP.
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 Old 05-21-2012, 02:53 PM   #32
 
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 Old 05-21-2012, 04:05 PM   #33
 
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Are there any guys running intakes, turboback's, and fmic's on stock internals? Cause I really don't wanna have to crack open my block to install those as my car is my dd.
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 Old 05-21-2012, 04:09 PM   #34
 
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Originally Posted by bobbylight707 View Post
Are there any guys running intakes, turboback's, and fmic's on stock internals? Cause I really don't wanna have to crack open my block to install those as my car is my dd.
lol...Crack open your block? We are talking Fuel pump internals here right?

If so no there are no guys doing that. They all blew up.



Search a bit more man.
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 Old 05-21-2012, 04:15 PM   #35
 
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Derpity derp. That's what I get for skimming this thread after studying for finals.
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 Old 07-14-2012, 04:50 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by themytb View Post
The following applies to all 2.3 MZR DISI powered mazdas as they all share the same pump. (ms3 both gens- ms6- cx-7)

GENERAL

Direct injected engines require a far higher fuel pressure then a port injected engine. This is why we have two fuel pumps. We have an in-tank pump and a high pressure cam driven pump.

The high pressure pump is commonly referred to on this site as the HPFP(high pressure fuel pump) and occasionaly as a CDFP(cam driven fuel pump)

The in-tank pump sends fuel at a low pressure to the HPFP which vastly increases the pressure and sends the fuel to the injectors.

As you modify your car and make more power the engine requires more fuel to feed the ignition process. At some point the stock HPFP will lack the ability to keep up with fuel demands. When this happens your engine enters a dangerous scary world of possible boom.
Thankfully we have some upgrade options making real power a possibility for us.

So how do you know when you need to upgrade?

The ONLY real way to know positively is through a logging/ ecu data device which can read/log your fuel pressure, such as an access port or dashhawk. Any thing under 1600 psi at WOT is a case of needing an upgrade. However, many would say to upgrade before it is NEEDED. Who wants to drive around like a grandma while waiting for parts and install anyways?

The modification level that requires a HPFP uprade varies from model to model, gen to gen, and even car to car. (READ THE PARAGRAPH ABOVE AGAIN)

GEN 1 MS3 & MS6
Most low level flow mods are ok( intake,test pipe, CBE etc)
Add an upgraded intercooler or a tune and your pushing it.
Add a downpipe and you might as well get the internals installed FIRST.
Don't even think about upgrading your turbo without an upgrade.

GEN 2 MS3
The genpu does not play as nice with the HPFP.
Many need an upgrade with just an intake, and Cobb states that some HPFP's will not keep up with stage 1 maps.
Upgrade should be very early on your list.

CX-7
I'm sorry I can't find much info on your car, I will add it later if I get more data.

I cannot say this enough the ONLY way to know for sure is through logging.

OPTIONS

So you've decided to upgrade, now what? Well, you can either buy yourself an upgraded pump, or save some money and buy upgraded pump internals to install into the pump yourself. The full pump is about as easy as it can get to install, but many members here have installed internals themselves with no issues(this is the route most take).

All these items are available from many different vendors both on MSF and not, and at varying prices. I am only linking to the manufacturers site and giving their prices.
You will notice some are listed as VW/AUDI parts, this is because we share a common HPFP with some of their engines- do not worry about that

I will list the internals kits first.
Autotech
part number 10-127-100k $399.95
VW Performance - Autotech Sport Tuning: Hi-Volume Fuel Pump UpGrade Kit 2.0T FSI


KMD
part number 03020 $329.95
Audi - A3 - 2.0T FSI - Engine - KMD Tuning - 2.0T FSI High Pressure Fuel Pump Kit - KMD Tuning & Engineering


HPFPupgrade(ptp)
part number HPFP00005 $349.00
Mazda DISI Do It Yourself Pump Internals | HPFPUpgrade.com


Now for the full pumps
Most pumps will require you to pay a core charge added to the price of the pump, when you install your new pump you send your old pump back to them and get your core charge refunded back to you.

CP-E
part number MZR23HPFP $667.56+$350 core
MZR DISI 2.3 HPFpump


HPFP upgrade(ptp)
2 options

1-upgrade your pump(send it to them, they upgrade it and send it back)
part number HPFP00004
A-stage 1 $549.00 B-stage 2 $799.00
Mazda DISI Upgrade Your Pump | HPFPUpgrade.com


2-complete HPFP(prebuilt and core charge-no wait)
part number HPFP00003
A-stage 1 $549.00+$350.00 core B-stage 2 $799.00+$350.00 core
Mazda DISI Complete High Pressure Fuel Pump | HPFPUpgrade.com



Need some help with install?
Luckily you've found the best damn Mazdaspeed tech site in the world and we can help you with that.

Fuel Pump internals Install!

CDFP internals upgrade

ran out of time for tonight will fix the mistakes i'm sure are there, as well as add some borders etc. tomorrow, please let me know anything you find grammar, blatant fuck ups etc.

can i order this stuff directly from the cp-e website or do i gotta find them somewhere else?
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 Old 07-14-2012, 08:03 AM   #37
 
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Originally Posted by Wings_Fan_1986 View Post
can i order this stuff directly from the cp-e website or do i gotta find them somewhere else?
Yes. Check their site...

http://www.cp-e.com/products/hpfpump...hpfpump&trade;


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 Old 07-21-2012, 01:14 PM   #38
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Sorry if this a stupid question but would a walboro 255 be enough fuel pump for full bolt-on through stage 2?
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Originally Posted by shawn19 View Post
Sorry if this a stupid question but would a walboro 255 be enough fuel pump for full bolt-on through stage 2?


Not sure if serious.

But no. Keep reading.

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Originally Posted by shawn19 View Post
Sorry if this a stupid question but would a walboro 255 be enough fuel pump for full bolt-on through stage 2?
troll question+twilight=troll in tutu?
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