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MazdaSpeed 3/6 - Fuel, Nitrous & Water Injection MazdaSpeed 3/6 - Fuel, Nitrous & Water Injection Have a CDFP fuel pump question? Do you want to add Nitrous or Water Injection to your Mazdaspeed 3/6 ? Please come on in!


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 Old 05-26-2011, 09:16 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by Nitr0EngiE View Post
i went through a total of 5 sets of internals before i gave up and bought a CP-e pump

1 Set of KMD v1, 2 sets of Carpe Diem, and 2 sets of KMD v2

they costed me my motor, my motor went lean so much from seized internals i blew a rod, my last set of internals ran fine for over 7k miles then when my engine blew up i could not figure out why it blew

when i was returning to stock and went to remove FP internals they had deep deep scores and was completely seized i could not move by hand, the cam must have been forcing it. i will NEVER fucking try another replacement piston in a CDFP

I now proudly fucking own a CP-E PUMP, holding 1850 psi no issues @ 22~23 psi of boost on BT flowing 400 g/s
If it is hard seized like that, the cam isn't going to force it. It is going to either lock in the compressed position (most likely) or tear the crap out of the piston end and/or the cam lobe (very on likely.) You are only going to get the ~50 PSI you get from the in tank pump in this case. And probably a substantial amount of noise from the cam lobe tapping the piston end (through the follower.)

Last edited by Erich; 05-26-2011 at 09:59 AM.
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 Old 05-26-2011, 09:17 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by Nitr0EngiE View Post
1 Set of KMD v1, 2 sets of Carpe Diem, and 2 sets of KMD v2
this is what I don't want to do. I'll run what I have to until I source a CPE pump..
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 Old 05-26-2011, 09:32 AM   #43
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I just send John a message.

While looking back at my receipt I was astonished to see that I paid 735 for a complete pump. IDK what the CPE pumps were going for back then but seems they were around the same price. I guess CPE was out of stock at the time LOL.

just funny how things workout or don't workout sometimes.
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 Old 05-26-2011, 09:41 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by Dano2010 View Post
I just send John a message.

While looking back at my receipt I was astonished to see that I paid 735 for a complete pump. IDK what the CPE pumps were going for back then but seems they were around the same price. I guess CPE was out of stock at the time LOL.

just funny how things workout or don't workout sometimes.
That had to be including core charge which I think is (or was) $350 or something like that.
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 Old 05-26-2011, 09:43 AM   #45
 
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Originally Posted by Nitr0EngiE View Post
i went through a total of 5 sets of internals before i gave up and bought a CP-e pump

1 Set of KMD v1, 2 sets of Carpe Diem, and 2 sets of KMD v2

they costed me my motor, my motor went lean so much from seized internals i blew a rod, my last set of internals ran fine for over 7k miles then when my engine blew up i could not figure out why it blew

when i was returning to stock and went to remove FP internals they had deep deep scores and was completely seized i could not move by hand, the cam must have been forcing it. i will NEVER fucking try another replacement piston in a CDFP

I now proudly fucking own a CP-E PUMP, holding 1850 psi no issues @ 22~23 psi of boost on BT flowing 400 g/s

Sounds like a guy who used gasoline as his lubricant lol.

As long as u oil the shit outa the internals and install correctly this shouldn't happen.
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 Old 05-26-2011, 09:43 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by Erich View Post
That had to be including core charge which I think is (or was) $350 or something like that.

oh yes that's correct!

what ever pump I end up with this time around I'll pay the core charge just to have a spare pump...
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 Old 05-26-2011, 09:45 AM   #47
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i only paid 450 brand new for my pump because SU loves me <3

Originally Posted by Realgib3 View Post
Sounds like a guy who used gasoline as his lubricant lol.

As long as u oil the shit outa the internals and install correctly this shouldn't happen.
yah ok buddy it was my fault 5 times ?

i believe you

unless the installation process for internals evolved since i did it the only thing you should touch the internals with is gasoline and gloves.... you dont oil them.

dano you wont believe the nightmares of tearing those pumps down over and over again, i never been happier since i went to cp-e pump.

Last edited by Nitr0EngiE; 05-26-2011 at 09:48 AM. Reason: MSF Database - Automerged Doublepost
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 Old 05-26-2011, 09:49 AM   #48
 
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Originally Posted by Dano2010 View Post
oh yes that's correct!

what ever pump I end up with this time around I'll pay the core charge just to have a spare pump...

thats what i did.. got a new pump while i sent my other off as core.
so i always had a back up pump ! thank god i did when i went though 3 ptp pumps.
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 Old 05-26-2011, 10:02 AM   #49
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Looks like edge is getting a shipment that leaves CPE today!

I may have just turned this bag of shit into gold.
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 Old 05-26-2011, 10:08 AM   #50
 
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Originally Posted by Nitr0EngiE View Post
i only paid 450 brand new for my pump because SU loves me <3



yah ok buddy it was my fault 5 times ?

i believe you

unless the installation process for internals evolved since i did it the only thing you should touch the internals with is gasoline and gloves.... you dont oil them.

dano you wont believe the nightmares of tearing those pumps down over and over again, i never been happier since i went to cp-e pump.

Holy shit lol. YES it was your fault 5 times if that's how u installed them. NO gas! This has been well known for years dude. Sorry u went through so much unnecessary trouble but for everyone out there.

DO NOT USE GASOLINE ON PUMP INTERNALS!!!

All u have to do is oil them thoroughly and you'll be verrry happy.
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 Old 05-26-2011, 10:10 AM   #51
 
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Originally Posted by Dano2010 View Post
Looks like edge is getting a shipment that leaves CPE today!

I may have just turned this bag of shit into gold.

AWESOME !!!!
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 Old 05-26-2011, 10:55 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by Realgib3 View Post
Holy shit lol. YES it was your fault 5 times if that's how u installed them. NO gas! This has been well known for years dude. Sorry u went through so much unnecessary trouble but for everyone out there.

DO NOT USE GASOLINE ON PUMP INTERNALS!!!

All u have to do is oil them thoroughly and you'll be verrry happy.
well according to all the instructions from various vendors they excplicitly advised to soak it and clean in gasoline and do not advicse of any other lube. just following instructions, but no thats not the only reason they all failed especially 7k miles later

i dont care anymore either way i got a cpe
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 Old 05-26-2011, 12:15 PM   #53
 
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Originally Posted by Nitr0EngiE View Post
well according to all the instructions from various vendors they excplicitly advised to soak it and clean in gasoline and do not advicse of any other lube. just following instructions, but no thats not the only reason they all failed especially 7k miles later

i dont care anymore either way i got a cpe
I'm sure u are happy with the cpe pump. It's a great pump.

I just wanted to make sure people didnt getg tje wrong idea about internals alone. The bottom line is the install really isn't that bad and with PROPER installation there is a very low risk of failure.

Again, I just dont want everyone thinking 5 pumps just randomly go bad on the same persons car...

With thay said, glad u found a pump dano and anyone going the internals rt. PLEASE use oil, NOT gas.
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 Old 05-26-2011, 01:19 PM   #54
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im not convinced its my fault 5 failed, if there was a need fp lubrication beyond the fuel which its designed for there would be a system in place to distribute lubrication to the system regularly if it require lube it should be part of the system.

show me isntructions printed 2 years ago showing you to lube the parts ill eat crow for 5 fails .... even after 7k miles
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 Old 05-26-2011, 01:29 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by Nitr0EngiE View Post
im not convinced its my fault 5 failed, if there was a need fp lubrication beyond the fuel which its designed for there would be a system in place to distribute lubrication to the system regularly if it require lube it should be part of the system.

show me isntructions printed 2 years ago showing you to lube the parts ill eat crow for 5 fails .... even after 7k miles
Hahahaha, man..... you gotta read what you type.


You've had 5 pumps fail, some as fast as 7k miles...... and yet you refuse to think your doing something wrong.


You have a guy who's installed 1 set of internals, with over 35k miles on them, and a blown motor in between, still with successful fuel pressure telling you that you installed em wrong (shouldn't have used gas, need to use oil).... and yet you refuse to think your doing something wrong.



I dunno man. I think i'm gonna have to side with the guy who hasn't had his pump fail yet lol.
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 Old 05-26-2011, 01:36 PM   #56
 
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When u install the internals and u our it all back together u need to prime the fuel pump and lines. Keep cycling the key until the sensor reads rail pressure or you'll dry start it and tear up the pump from air raiding it. So if u don't due that and u didn't install lube on the internals It's very possible you could have messed them up. I'm not saying that's what happened because I wasn't there while u did them and I don't remember that being in any instructions. So if that happened its not your fault because It's not in the instructions so I would blame it on the pump vendor/creator for supplying poor instructions.
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 Old 05-26-2011, 01:51 PM   #57
 
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doesnt kmd send out packs of grease with their new internals for lube?
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 Old 05-26-2011, 01:55 PM   #58

 
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LOL @ people pointing out that ONE CPE pump failed. Soon there will be less working PTP pumps than failed CPE pumps.

Good choice on biting the bullet Dano, thats going to be one ugly bill if you don't turn in a core, but at least its one less thing you have to worry about.

People are giving cpe too much shit over blaming the AP. I bet they got a bunch of calls after the last AP firmware update. If you updated your AP but didn't reflash your car it would read several pids wrong, one of them being the DI fuel pressure which would read sub-100 fuel pressures.
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 Old 05-26-2011, 02:06 PM   #59
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i did ask to show me with the vendors that sold me and gave me the instructions did not include lube thats all I said. yes the step may of been needed and was discovered later or with different vendors but the ones ALL of which were purchased from Protege garage the same guy never ever ever once was it printed by him or his manufacturers to use lube and it could very well be the reason they all failed at first but I was simply doing as was told lol

to be honest is seems all of those and current internal manufacturers are still trying to perfect the product for these fuel pumps is it so hard to believe i was given bad instructions, i dont even think there is a single working pump with carpe diem internals at this moment. and i have seen ken offer more than 5 different versions of internals. I give that man props for dealing with that bullshit. he did not get re embursed for any of the failed parts the guy made. but thats a whole different story. but all my bottom line is its not like i tore my pump apart without reading instructions, and replaced 5 pair blindly without being concerned of why they failed or not investigate if im needing a different process. it was simply un advised to do it this way you mention. as a matter of fact this is the FIRST time i have heard of installing them with lube, i gave up on internals so long ago i have no fucking idea what version or what vendors are available and are completely ignorant of the most recent processes. i dont care i put my time in with internals to try and save money, it ended up working the other way.

one more good point to remember at that time and this is the very early in the internals development i had all those fail in a matter of a few months, so i got 3 different versions in that amount of time, 3 options that were changed not by me but protege garage. I only paid for the original pair of internals each change was a change they made because all of the previous ones failed and failed. nobody was getting them to work for very long they would always fail after x amount of miles. so in perspective i did not buy 5 different versions from different vendors and fuck up 5 different sets of instructions this was all the same shit from the same vendor.

its the same shit as john at ptp making up 3 different break in processes and blaming it on that shit ....

manufacturing and R & D Failure can suck my dick

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 Old 05-26-2011, 02:11 PM   #60
 
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Originally Posted by Ziggo View Post
LOL @ people pointing out that ONE CPE pump failed. Soon there will be less working PTP pumps than failed CPE pumps.

Good choice on biting the bullet Dano, thats going to be one ugly bill if you don't turn in a core, but at least its one less thing you have to worry about.

People are giving cpe too much shit over blaming the AP. I bet they got a bunch of calls after the last AP firmware update. If you updated your AP but didn't reflash your car it would read several pids wrong, one of them being the DI fuel pressure which would read sub-100 fuel pressures.
I'm not saying that CP-E is bad, just sayin that they did have a failed pump.
It was mentioned that none had failed...

I know that they one out of thousands they have done is great, just wanted to make sure people knew that there was one.
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 Old 05-26-2011, 02:32 PM   #61
 
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my KMDs have been removed several times before i discovered my relief valve had failed... they are still going strong... except i used assembly lube each install
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 Old 05-26-2011, 02:32 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by wolly6973 View Post
I'm not saying that CP-E is bad, just sayin that they did have a failed pump.
It was mentioned that none had failed...

I know that they one out of thousands they have done is great, just wanted to make sure people knew that there was one.
there was actually 2

I PERSONALLY caused the cp-e pump to fail by forgetting to install the collar tensioner on the cam lobe when i built my motor originally. the pump seized the cam, chewed it up and snapped my vvt which resulted in bent valves.

im not afraid to admit when something is my fault. I would just rather be satisfied knowing what caused the issue and how to resolve it vs trying to look good and perfect.
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 Old 05-26-2011, 03:06 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by Ziggo View Post
LOL @ people pointing out that ONE CPE pump failed. Soon there will be less working PTP pumps than failed CPE pumps.

Good choice on biting the bullet Dano, thats going to be one ugly bill if you don't turn in a core, but at least its one less thing you have to worry about.

People are giving cpe too much shit over blaming the AP. I bet they got a bunch of calls after the last AP firmware update. If you updated your AP but didn't reflash your car it would read several pids wrong, one of them being the DI fuel pressure which would read sub-100 fuel pressures.
$985. Ouch. But I don't want to be without a spare pump

Gina at PTP already replied and they say the pump will be replaced under warranty.

Two guesses at which pump will be my spare .


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 Old 05-26-2011, 03:58 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by Dano2010 View Post
$985. Ouch. But I don't want to be without a spare pump

Gina at PTP already replied and they say the pump will be replaced under warranty.

Two guesses at which pump will be my spare .


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 Old 05-26-2011, 04:14 PM   #65

 
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Find a core from elsewhere to turn in. I bought one for $120 and sent it in as my core. Netted a couple hundred and got to keep my stock pump.

And no you can't have my spare stocker to send it.
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Seems like having a PTP HPFP is just like having a ticking time bomb.. When I stocked out I left that one in because well, it was my daily driver.. I feel bad for the sucker who gets my car.. lol.
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 Old 05-26-2011, 04:40 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by Ziggo View Post
Find a core from elsewhere to turn in. I bought one for $120 and sent it in as my core. Netted a couple hundred and got to keep my stock pump.

And no you can't have my spare stocker to send it.

Well you're not much help then
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 Old 05-26-2011, 04:49 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by Nitr0EngiE View Post
i went through a total of 5 sets of internals before i gave up and bought a CP-e pump

1 Set of KMD v1, 2 sets of Carpe Diem, and 2 sets of KMD v2

they costed me my motor, my motor went lean so much from seized internals i blew a rod, my last set of internals ran fine for over 7k miles then when my engine blew up i could not figure out why it blew

when i was returning to stock and went to remove FP internals they had deep deep scores and was completely seized i could not move by hand, the cam must have been forcing it. i will NEVER fucking try another replacement piston in a CDFP

I now proudly fucking own a CP-E PUMP, holding 1850 psi no issues @ 22~23 psi of boost on BT flowing 400 g/s
Def installation error.. Im over 50K with KMD internals, Lenny has to be higher then me by now with miles on his... Im even about to try their latest ones since i got a acquired a second pump. Every other socal car that had their internals done at nator hq, besides the Carpe junk or the PTP stuff, has been fine without any failures.
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 Old 11-10-2011, 03:12 AM   #69
 
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ok, so I have two questions:

1) what do you lube the pump with?
2) how do you prime the rails?
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 Old 11-10-2011, 07:42 AM   #70
 
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1. Motor oil
2. cycle the key to on then off several times. but do not start the car when doing this
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 Old 11-10-2011, 07:51 AM   #71
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10 cycles should do it... depending how quiet it is, you will hear the in tank pump.
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