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 Old 04-14-2009, 11:00 AM   #1
 
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Default 225/40/18 or 225/45/18

Hey, so I'm trying to figure out what size tires to buy as an All Season Alternative to winter / summer switching, to help cut costs down.

I noticed that the 225/40/18 is the normal plus 1, but is slightly smaller (2.1%) than the stock 215/45/18. The 225/45/18 seems to be a better match because it's diameter is only 0.8% larger from stock.

Any recommendations would be nice, such as pros, cons and why? If you have any personal experience, please input. Mind, these are going on the stock wheels (rims).

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 Old 04-14-2009, 11:05 AM   #2
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is this for a 3 or a 6? your prob better off with the 45 series cause when they begin to wear they will slowly approach the stock dia instead of getting smaller and smaller with the 40 series.
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 Old 04-14-2009, 11:08 AM   #3
 
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MS3. Any experience with handling becoming worse or less responsive? side wall flex while cornering?
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 Old 04-14-2009, 12:00 PM   #4
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I have 225/45/18 blizzak lm-25's on stock wheels for my winter setup and they rub slightly with people in the back
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 Old 04-17-2009, 08:12 PM   #5
 
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id go with the bigger diameter opposed to smaller cuz the speedo is off a few mph with 40series in 225, your odo will count faster also. somewhere around a extra mile for every 20
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 Old 04-17-2009, 08:45 PM   #6
 
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Disregard. I'm retarded

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 Old 01-22-2010, 11:26 PM   #7
 
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Well, I'm facing now the same dilemma, 225/45 or 225/40?

My wheels are 7.5x18 (ET 48, so most likely I won't rub with any of these tires) and I'm looking for the best compromise between comfort and cornering speed.
Of course, the 225/45 should offer more comfort but I'm a bit concerned about the difference on the cornering speeds compared to 225/40.

So which one is worse, the cornering speeds of the 225/45's or the comfort levels with the 225/40's? I should be able to live with the additional 2lbs of the 225/45 tire if that will be the final recommendation.
I'm also wondering if inflating a 225/45 tire with, say, 2 PSI more would raise the performance closer to of a 225/40 tire without loosing too much on the the comfort side, or if inflating a 225/40 tire with 2PSI less would not affect dramatically the cornering speeds and will also offer comfort levels closer to what 225/45 has.

Also, the minimum recommended wheel width for 225/40 is 7.5" so I'm at the limit with that, even though I don't think that would be a problem. Minimum recommended for 225/45 is 7".
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 Old 01-23-2010, 02:02 AM   #8
 
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Im running 235/40 on the stock rims so thats also an option as well
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 Old 01-23-2010, 04:07 AM   #9
 
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235/40 on a 7" wheel? Never an option for me, not even on a 7.5" wide rim since the 8" is the narrowest recommended.
People think that wider tires will give more grip, which is wrong. There is no real reason to run wider tires on these cars, this of course unless you have a tuned engine making 350lb or more torques, and the wider tire would help to dissipate the energy in a higher quantity of rubber, this preventing it from burning too quickly and loosing grip.
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 Old 01-23-2010, 05:16 AM   #10
 
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Originally Posted by mituc View Post
Well, I'm facing now the same dilemma, 225/45 or 225/40?

My wheels are 7.5x18 (ET 48, so most likely I won't rub with any of these tires) and I'm looking for the best compromise between comfort and cornering speed.
Of course, the 225/45 should offer more comfort but I'm a bit concerned about the difference on the cornering speeds compared to 225/40.

So which one is worse, the cornering speeds of the 225/45's or the comfort levels with the 225/40's? I should be able to live with the additional 2lbs of the 225/45 tire if that will be the final recommendation.
I'm also wondering if inflating a 225/45 tire with, say, 2 PSI more would raise the performance closer to of a 225/40 tire without loosing too much on the the comfort side, or if inflating a 225/40 tire with 2PSI less would not affect dramatically the cornering speeds and will also offer comfort levels closer to what 225/45 has.

Also, the minimum recommended wheel width for 225/40 is 7.5" so I'm at the limit with that, even though I don't think that would be a problem. Minimum recommended for 225/45 is 7".
Please disregard my older post because I think I was drunk or something when I posted it. I just read it and thought WTF??

I in fact do have 225/45/R18s. I have been extremely happy with the tire size, and the speedo accuracy. The speedo is actually accurate to the single digit (verified by GPS) and the fitting looks perfect - to me at least.

Now please keep the following in mind. Not all 225/45/R18s are created equal. I am currently running Z1 Star Specs that have an ineradicably strong sidewall. That means my cornering has actually improved over the stock, AND the tires (though much noisier) absorb a lot of impact instead of flexing an allowing the rim to absorb it and get bent. Driving on Arizona roads, I had to replace ALL 4 rims with the stock rubber because every single pot-hole somehow bent my rims. With these, that has not happened once. So, although I haven't run 225/40s before, 225/45s might actually save your rims. I have also never had any problem rubbing.
However, before the Star Specs, for about 2 months I ran these piece of shit Sumitomo tires (recommended by an incompetent friend) that for the same size (225/45) not only they actually rubbed, but they also had sidewalls softer than gummy bears. And even inflating them to 50PSI didn't help with reaction of tires. So I returned them.

Also, cornering speed (Gs) has nothing to do with your sidewalls. Sidewalls may make a difference in your tires' reaction to quick steering inputs (when comparing the same make and model of tires) - but then again, you have to have the proper - read max performance tire or better - tire for this to even matter. Anything less, and it will all be gummy bears regardless.
Now if you want more cornering speed, you will have to get wider tires, but not too wide for your rims, as you start to compromise your tires' reaction. Though increasing your corner speed and 0-60 time, wider tires will also decrease your gas mileage, your rolling acceleration, and your top speed.

The moral of the story then is: 225-45-18 should be perfect for stock rims BUT it has to be the right brand and quality, for if it is a crappy one, NOTHING will work right.

Another thing to keep in mind is that 40 or 45 is a ratio. Therefore, the wider the tire you get, the smaller this ratio has to get to achieve the same size sidewalls. For example a 255/45 will have a much much bigger sidewall than a 225/45. That's why when you step up to 235s, the max sidewall you should get to keep proportion with this car, is 40.

Hope this helped.

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 Old 01-23-2010, 06:00 AM   #11
 
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Thanks Funky!

Well, we don't get direzza's around here and we should order them from the states, which I'm not sure it makes too much sense. Moreover, I'm after some XL tires no matter what the manufacturer is, because those usually have the sidewalls reinforced. Since I also want the tire to be light I'mm pretty much decided for Michelin Pilot sport 2 or 3, 225/45/zr18 95Y XL or 225/40/ZR18 92Y XL.

I know that the direzza Z1 star spec's have a pretty stiff sidewall even though they are not rated as XL, so what do you think, a PS2 XL rated would do?
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 Old 01-23-2010, 06:32 AM   #12
 
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Personally, I don't think I would worry about the load rating as much as I would worry about the testing data and reviews. Right now, 3 of the best performing tires out there are Bridgestone Potenza RE-11, Dunlop Direzza Sport Z1 Star Spec, and Yokohama ADVAN Neova AD08, none of which actually have an XL load rating (all 3 are S). Source

I honestly don't know about the performance of PS2s, because I personally haven't got any experience with them. I am sure someone else on the forums who runs them could give you a better opinion. Meanwhile I suggest you look at their reviews and testing data online, and a good place to start is Tirerack.com
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 Old 01-23-2010, 11:59 AM   #13
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225/45/18 Hankook Ventus v12, stock wheels.

very very slight rubbing, on the wheel liner behind the rear tires, only over the largest depressions.

I would buy them again.
Also one of the few tires with a greater load rating than stock.
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 Old 01-23-2010, 01:52 PM   #14
 
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Ok FreeFly, but what would you choose between Hankook Ventus v12 225/45 and 225/40? And why?
I know that you also have some decent experience with suspensions, so let's consider the context when the suspension parts and setup are the same. Also, if you would choose a different type between the two if the suspension setup was be different then please also mention those cases - if any, when you'd choose differently.

My setup is bilstein B14 + ssr typeF 7.5x18 - what would be your choice if you had my setup? Don't worry, I think that both of us are after both ride comfort and performance, so your choice may reflect my preferences more than you can think of
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I run 225/45/18, fills the wheel well nicely, softens up the ride a little, and protects the rims nicely. I have Nitto Invo's and LOVE EM! But they only lasted about 25K miles, not bad, not bad at all, they ride super quiet and have tons of grip dry and wet, but I am gonna try a set of Conti DWS this time around. Supposed to be an excellent tire.
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 Old 01-23-2010, 05:11 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by mituc View Post
Ok FreeFly, but what would you choose between Hankook Ventus v12 225/45 and 225/40? And why?
I know that you also have some decent experience with suspensions, so let's consider the context when the suspension parts and setup are the same. Also, if you would choose a different type between the two if the suspension setup was be different then please also mention those cases - if any, when you'd choose differently.

My setup is bilstein B14 + ssr typeF 7.5x18 - what would be your choice if you had my setup? Don't worry, I think that both of us are after both ride comfort and performance, so your choice may reflect my preferences more than you can think of
Pretty much what zoom zoom just said.
I am not familiar with your wheels/offset and so cant speak to that.

The reasons I chose 225/45:
1) a wider tire that fits stock rim width within tire manufacturer specifications
2) Very slightly taller tire has advantages:
a) smoother ride
b) closes the wheel gap a little without having to lower the car. 225/40 makes wheel/fender gap larger.
c) slightly less miles recorded on odometer
d) slightly longer gearing
2 b c d, are marginal and probably barely noticeable.

So my main reasons were 1) and 2a).
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 Old 01-23-2010, 05:20 PM   #17
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I was running Nitto Invo 225/45 on stock wheels up until a couple weeks ago. They pretty much sucked and are rated second to last, right behind the ding dongs (I mean ling longs) in a recent article I read comparing low cost high performance summer tires.

Currently I'm running Pilot Sport 2's 225/40 on stock wheels and they are utterly amazing tires! They fit very well on the stock MS3 rim and look very nice. The performance is astonishing in every regard but they're not cheap at around 230.00 per tire.

I was looking at the Star Spec 2's but reading the specs they're heavy as hell! 25-26lbs per vs. the Pilot Sports which weight just 21lbs per.
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 Old 01-25-2010, 06:33 AM   #18
 
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Good analysis. I too run Hankook V12's but for daily driving I decided to stick with 215x45 (stock size) and am happy with that. One downside to wider tires is that it reduces MPG. I have wider tires I use for track/autox.


Originally Posted by FreeFlyFreak View Post
Pretty much what zoom zoom just said.
I am not familiar with your wheels/offset and so cant speak to that.

The reasons I chose 225/45:
1) a wider tire that fits stock rim width within tire manufacturer specifications
2) Very slightly taller tire has advantages:
a) smoother ride
b) closes the wheel gap a little without having to lower the car. 225/40 makes wheel/fender gap larger.
c) slightly less miles recorded on odometer
d) slightly longer gearing
2 b c d, are marginal and probably barely noticeable.

So my main reasons were 1) and 2a).
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 Old 01-25-2010, 06:40 AM   #19
 
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Originally Posted by mituc View Post
235/40 on a 7" wheel? Never an option for me, not even on a 7.5" wide rim since the 8" is the narrowest recommended.
People think that wider tires will give more grip, which is wrong. There is no real reason to run wider tires on these cars, this of course unless you have a tuned engine making 350lb or more torques, and the wider tire would help to dissipate the energy in a higher quantity of rubber, this preventing it from burning too quickly and loosing grip.
Your right...wider tires do not give more grip in STRAIGHT LINE acceleration.

However wider tires DO give you more grip when it comes to horizontal acceleration...AKA handling. You will get better handling with a wider tire.


OP,

I had 225 40s last year. Now I haev 235 40s with a 8in wide wheel. I had no issues with rubbing with the 225 40s...however if I did it again I would go 225 45s.

The 45s look better...you wont loose mileage on the odometer..and all you gotta put up with is a little rubbing if you got alot of fat bitches in the back.
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 Old 01-25-2010, 10:52 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by AFcadet View Post

The 45s look better...you wont loose mileage on the odometer..and all you gotta put up with is a little rubbing if you got alot of fat bitches in the back.
With 225/45/18 on stock tires any rubbing in the rear is very mild, and is not above the tire, but behind the tire on the horizontal seam of the liner. It would probably be possible to rig something up to move that liner rearward an 1/8" and have zero rubbing even with a heavy load.

I dont regret the 45's. I did notice a slight loss in mpg though.

One more thing about the Hankook v12's, they are one of very few tires in this size that have a load rating the same as, or in the v12's case greater than the stock tires.
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 Old 02-02-2010, 11:33 AM   #21
 
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Originally Posted by AFcadet View Post
I had 225 40s last year. Now I haev 235 40s with a 8in wide wheel. I had no issues with rubbing with the 225 40s...however if I did it again I would go 225 45s.

The 45s look better...you wont loose mileage on the odometer..and all you gotta put up with is a little rubbing if you got alot of fat bitches in the back.
There shouldn't be any issues with rubbing on 225/40/18's. However, unless noted by the manufacturer, the width range for that tire is 7.5" - 9." 225/45/18 would be the better choice on a stock MS3 rim. More here:

Tire Tech - Tire Specs Explained
Originally Posted by TireRack
staying within the approved rim width range helps assure that the tire's internal stresses are within its design parameters.
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 Old 02-02-2010, 11:40 AM   #22
 
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Originally Posted by AFcadet View Post
Your right...wider tires do not give more grip in STRAIGHT LINE acceleration.

However wider tires DO give you more grip when it comes to horizontal acceleration...AKA handling. You will get better handling with a wider tire.


OP,

I had 225 40s last year. Now I haev 235 40s with a 8in wide wheel. I had no issues with rubbing with the 225 40s...however if I did it again I would go 225 45s.

The 45s look better...you wont loose mileage on the odometer..and all you gotta put up with is a little rubbing if you got alot of fat bitches in the back.
AND if you're doing things right you wouldn't ever have fat bitches in the back anyway so... I vote 225/40 walls.
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 Old 02-02-2010, 01:44 PM   #23
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I've had both 225/45 and 225/40's on the stock rims and prefer the 225/40's. I'd suggest Yokohama Parada Spec 2's (225/40/18) if you're on a tight budget and want good performance. These tires are actually within mfg spec as well for a 7'inch RIM. If you don't mind spending 230+ PS2's are awesome!
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 Old 04-03-2010, 12:37 AM   #24
 
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Ok, I already have about 600 miles with my 225/40/zr18 michelin pilot sport 3, and I'm not sure if I could have done a wiser choice. They are light (about 20 pounds) and they grip very hard, just like a train on rails.
Moreover they are not harsh as you would expect from an XL tire, so even though the side walls are a bit stiffer than on a normal tire they are still fine while inflated by the specs (bot the inflation pressure from the new mazdaspeed 2010 which comes with 225/40/r18 stock).
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 Old 04-17-2010, 01:27 AM   #25
 
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Ya, I agree that you need to get the exact dimensions of the tire, they do vary.

I'm running 225/45-18 Star Spec's and liking them a lot. I didn't like them for a while though, they needed some wear time and heat cycling to really start working. But now, nearly halfway worn down after just 5000 miles, they grip like a motherfucker in every direction...once they warm up a bit. Definitely not a good tire to wail through that freeway onramp a half mile from your house on your morning commute, but once they're up to temperature, get ready for serious grip! I have literally gotten myself car sick with these gum balls.

Lots of people say they cost a lot, but they're a whole lot less expensive than anything else in their class like the RE-11's or PS-2's. Good, fast, or cheap, pick any two.

Anyway, back on point, they're one of the few if not only serious tires that are "approved" by their maker to run on 7" wheels in this size, and I've only had a few taps on the rear fender liners when loaded heavy and taking bumps fast.

Other downsides? They feel a bit clompy over choppy surfaces and kick the steering wheel a bit - not uncomfortable, in fact the ride harshness is minimal, just not quite as well planted as the OEM Bridgestones. And they're a bit number on steering precision. Not bad, just a bit less responsive than I was used to, but the vastly increased dry grip is worth it. They need to be man-handled a bit to get the most out of them.

Oh, and they don't make any "scouring" or squeal noises until you're right at their limit, which is great for running around on public roads at 8/10ths. I hate tire squeal, and these only go there if you're driving over the line (pun intended). Some drivers might take that as a lack of feedback, but once they wear down a bit they have plenty of actual feedback for experienced drivers.

And, much unlike the stockers, they don't scrub off nearly as much speed if you're pushing the limits, they just slip more but help you keep your momentum. This is great for lap times, but maybe not so good on public roads. If you lose it and hit anything (or anyone) you'll be going faster when you do! Again, you need to be careful - the grip can suck you into a real disaster. The limits are best left for track days where it's much safer to explore them.

Anyway, sorry for the thread drift, I know the OP and other readers are actually looking for some broad advice about sizing and not a tire review. But someone else mentioned these particular tires so I thought I'd throw my 2 cents in. They're fast, they're comfortable, they're priced reasonably, but they have consequences...

And they work just fine on the stock wheels.
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 Old 04-17-2010, 03:14 AM   #26
 
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It's subtle and often overlooked, but this thread has got to be one of the more insightful, helpful thread I've come across.

Thanks for helping me decide on 40 vs 45, I highly doubt I'll get new 8inch wide rims until the car is paid off. I think I have one more rotation left in my OEM bridgestones.
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 Old 04-19-2010, 09:25 AM   #27
 
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I am currently on 225/40/18 on my 18.8.0 rims and I do notice that my speedometer is off 2-4 mph. I will be getting 225/45/18 for my next set of tires.
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 Old 04-19-2010, 09:51 AM   #28
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How about running the same diameter 225/45 on an 8 inch rim? How will that (if at all) change the handling characteristics?
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 Old 04-20-2010, 02:41 AM   #29
 
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The answer to this question is something I've been looking for for a long period of time. I just hope someone will throw it in here with some proof sustained by some technical data.
So far I can only say that a friend of mine has some michelin PA3 (winter tires) 225/45/r18 on a 8x18 rim (ssr typeF) and he says that they are even better than the stock potenzas on both on stock rims and on the SSRs, ant that happens at least below 15C (60F). He also told me that there is no difference in manoeuvrability and I tend to believe him (probably 225/45 properly inflated are about the same thing as 225/40).
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 Old 05-10-2010, 11:21 PM   #30
 
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225/45 i would think
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 Old 05-10-2010, 11:52 PM   #31
 
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I'm already running 225/40/r18 (michelin PS3) on a 7.5" rim and have no regrets.
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 Old 05-25-2010, 10:56 PM   #32
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Good thread... I just mounted 225/45/18 Hankook Ventus V12s onto Enkei RS-05 18x8 +48 wheels on a MS3. So far, so good. NO RUBBING, although I haven't had any rear cargo or passengers, and no major bumps lol.

Ride quality seems improved over the previous tires I had, which were 225/40/18 Nitto NT-555s. I also destroyed 2 of those on potholes, so hoping these 225/45s will be better!
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2007 SS MS3 | cp-e SRI/TIP | Forge | Enkei RS-05s | Blacked Out | 227/226 Dyno
http://www.mazdaspeedforums.org/foru...eed-3-a-52398/
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