good tires for good handling

[kwsmithphoto]

Personally, I think that the Tire Rack's user survey is the best source of real world info out there and has never let me down.

In the Max Performance category, the Michelin PS2's and the Goodyear GS-D3's constantly trade the top 2 spots, and score very closely in all categories. The Goodyears favor ride comfort and wet grip slightly more than the Michelins do, but they're pretty close.

In terms of cost, no comparison. 225/40-18's are $239 vs. $179 for the Goodyears as of this writing. The Goodyears also look a lot better, IMO, and have a slightly better treadwear rating, 240 vs. 220. I ran two sets of them on my last car and got 25K+ out of each set, driven aggressively with some track days. Excellent dry grip, phenomenal wet grip (what, the road's wet?), very good comfort factor, even better than some all season touring tires. Truly excellent all around tires but they do get a little bit greasy on a very hot track.

All road tires will but these are said to go off a bit quicker than some others. Not a big deal for me since I only do 1-2 track events a year, but my times start to drop towards the end of a session. That could just be me though, ha ha.

BTW, the stock RE050A's are currently rated #11.

IMHO, I think they're quite good for an OEM tire on a $23K car, but have you seen the replacement cost? Absurd for such an average tire. The only thing they have going for them is they come in the stock size, a 225/40 on a 7" rim is pushing things a little. 10mm isn't much of a push though. The shorter diameter is more of a problem - you'll get a bit more wheel gap at the top and bit of speedometer error. Oh well. Blame Mazda for using such an oddball size.

Moving up to the Extreme Performance category, Those Dunlop Direzza Star Specs are currently #1 with similar user scores to the Goodyear and Michelin all around, and are actually $5 cheaper than the Goodyears. Being newer technology I'm likely to give them a try when the stocker's wear out (soon, no doubt). The Kuhmo MX is tempting because of their price, but their low marks for ride comfort put me off. Apparently that was the compromise they had to make get the performance and price point they wanted.

I've driven a lot of stiff cars with stiff tires enough times to put a premium on ride comfort at this point in my life. Harder tires make things rattle quicker and just annoy me when I'm driving to work. Thanks to modern technology you really can have it all, but it comes at a price. Koni FSD shocks are another example of this. I already have them and can tell you the car both handles and rides better than the stocker's did.

Oh, BTW, responding to the comments that the RE050A comes on the Ferrari Enzo. Do you guys have any idea how symbiotic Ferrari's relationship is with Bridgestone via their F1 program? It's safe to assume that the Enzo version was specifically constructed and compounded precisely for that car, and bear little relationship to what came on Mazda.

[MS3xeoc]

Originally Posted by Otacon_X What about the Yokohama tire line?

On my 98 Nissan 240sx years back I had some Yokohama AVS ES 100's that i LOVED. I dont think they make them anymore. I am not sure what replaced them. Excellent bang for the buck. That car was on rails... If i could find them I would probably get em!

[kwsmithphoto]

They still make them and Tire Rack sells them. #18 on their survery.

[aragorn764]

What do you guys think about the FK452's? I have them on my car right now and the're ok...

[zoom1&zoom2]

Originally Posted by phillyb i want my car to handle really well... would an 18 or 17 inch wheel work better? what are some good tire recommendations for tires that won't brake the bank? please recommend offsets along with tire sizes as well...i'm a n00b at this

I've owner ALOT of different performance tires, ALOT...in the 8.5 years I have owned my Dakota R/T I have had 13 sets of tires, tried em all...best I have had are BFG KDW2, really great handling tire..decent tread life too. Nitto's are great tires but tend to have soft sidewalls, not great for handling, bridgestones are decent handling tires too but tend to be narrow and loud. Michelins PS's are great for handling in twisties but seem to lack straight line traction. Anyway, hope that helps.

[MS3xeoc]

Originally Posted by kwsmithphoto They still make them and Tire Rack sells them. #18 on their survery.

No one seems to have the size I want. thanks for the info tho.

[ms3077]

Doesn't tire rack use a Lexus IS300 to test all it's tires?

[Nliiitend1]

They have a number of different cars, I believe. IIRC, they list the test car that they use for each individual test in the results...

[kwsmithphoto]

If you spend enough time on their site you'll see they mostly use BMW 3-Series for their performance tire tests. Not exclusively, but almost always.

But their tests aren't all that relevant to me. I appreciate the effort but it's just one data point. I would rather base my decisions on the opinions of thousands of customers who have accumulated millions of miles on a tire on a variety of different cars.

One neat thing about the user survey is that you can filter it to show only what MS3 driver's think like on their cars. You get fewer data points but the comments are revealing, sometimes. With some it's clear the the owner knows what they're talking about, in others it's clear that they don't have a clue, which helps you filter the nonsense to sense factor. If someone rates a tire a 9 then says "I like them, they look cool and were cheap!" you can probably discount that person's rating. Kinda like car forums, in that sense, but useful nonetheless.

[Phantom]

I have used up the stockers in about 20k Km.

So far I have used:
Bridgestone RE050A (Great for stock, an Expensive average tire)
Goodyear Eagle F1 GS-D3 (Great Wet and Good Dry traction)
Bridgestone RE760 (Good overall. Great Tread Wear)

And will need some new tires this spring. I am thinking of BFGoodrich KDW-2, Toyo T1R, or Yokohama S.Drive.

From the look of things I am going to be buying new tires each year for this car.

[Funky]

GOOD GOD!! I'm starting to get a hang of the Z1 Star Specs... OH MY GOD these things grip like honey in eyelash!! I don't know what to say, but in my case, the car was out handling me, or anything of my kind (stock everything). It was on tracks. A friend with a highly modified WRX with lots of track time was having a hard time keeping up.

BUY Z1s PERIOD DOT.

But they don't last any more than 10K

[ms3077]

Originally Posted by Phantom I have used up the stockers in about 20k Km. So far I have used: Bridgestone RE050A (Great for stock, an Expensive average tire) Goodyear Eagle F1 GS-D3 (Great Wet and Good Dry traction) Bridgestone RE760 (Good overall. Great Tread Wear) And will need some new tires this spring. I am thinking of BFGoodrich KDW-2, Toyo T1R, or Yokohama S.Drive. From the look of things I am going to be buying new tires each year for this car.

Don't feel bad, I'll be changing mine twice (2) a yr at least!

[08_ms3_gt]

two tire questions/comments:

1) is it unsafe to run 225's on the stock sized rims? i had a set of ms6 wheels that i put 225's onto.

2) i ran hankook rs2's on my 1.8T and thought they were great. sticky and fairly cheap, i learned about them from autox guys when i was driving a focus svt. and supposedly they've now got an rs3 with better traction AND treadwear. anyone familiar with the rs2?

[ms3077]

Originally Posted by 08_ms3_gt two tire questions/comments: 1) is it unsafe to run 225's on the stock sized rims? i had a set of ms6 wheels that i put 225's onto. 2) i ran hankook rs2's on my 1.8T and thought they were great. sticky and fairly cheap, i learned about them from autox guys when i was driving a focus svt. and supposedly they've now got an rs3 with better traction AND treadwear. anyone familiar with the rs2?

The only 225/40/18's that I've seen that are actually within specs of our rims (MS3) are the Yokohama Parada Spec 2's - http://www.tirerack.com/tires/Spec.j...irePageLocQty=

Test results: http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/...ay.jsp?ttid=18

Note: They do great in the wet.

[Nliiitend1]

Originally Posted by 08_ms3_gt two tire questions/comments: 1) is it unsafe to run 225's on the stock sized rims? i had a set of ms6 wheels that i put 225's onto. 2) i ran hankook rs2's on my 1.8T and thought they were great. sticky and fairly cheap, i learned about them from autox guys when i was driving a focus svt. and supposedly they've now got an rs3 with better traction AND treadwear. anyone familiar with the rs2?

I had a set of Hankook Ventus Z212 R-S2s on one of my Focuses.

The Falken Azenis RT-615 bests it in every category except wet traction, where the 'kooks have a slight edge. The Kumho XSs that I'm running on the MS3 right now are probably even better than the RT-615, so I'd say there are definitely better tires out there now near the same price point...

[aragorn764]

Originally Posted by aragorn764 What do you guys think about the FK452's? I have them on my car right now and the're ok...

Anybody else has em?? im running 235/40's

[Funky]

Originally Posted by 08_ms3_gt two tire questions/comments: 1) is it unsafe to run 225's on the stock sized rims? i had a set of ms6 wheels that i put 225's onto. 2) i ran hankook rs2's on my 1.8T and thought they were great. sticky and fairly cheap, i learned about them from autox guys when i was driving a focus svt. and supposedly they've now got an rs3 with better traction AND tread wear. anyone familiar with the rs2?

95% of 225s are totally fine with the stock rims. I'm running 225s (Z1s) on mine and they're perfectly safe, looks just 'right', and feel great. In fact my speedo is even more accurate with the new tire size (225 45). The only thing is if you go with the wrong brand, the sidewalls are gonna be too soft and you'll feel that even more with 225s.

The car should have come with 225s to begin with.
225s will reduce your top speed tho.. by 3-5 mph (stock everything else)

That's my 2c

[Fratman]

u only have about 1 sq ft of rubber on the ground it should be as sticky as possiable if you want to be fast

[verbalink]

over the course of the past few years, ive owned several vehicles with lots and lots of different rubber from pricey and sticky to more affordable sticky tires. road noise was never a huge consideration to me, since i valued the tire more for its ability to keep me planted to the road securely. i think i got a pretty good idea of how each tire fared as a daily driving tire and as a more performance minded tire.

mind you, anybody can log on and read tire rack reviews, but that only gives you a partial idea of what you might be looking at. what does an 8.0 in comfort translate to in real life? or a 9.2 in sidewall stiffness. best thing to do, is find a friend with the tires you are looking for mounted and ask for a little drive.

the tires i remember most notably are:

bridgestone re070 225/45/17
goodyear eagle f1 gs-d3 225/4o/18
falken azenis rt-615 225/45/17
bridgestone s-03 225/40/18
bridgestone re050a - 215/40/18
general exclaim uhp - 225/45/17

sadly, id have to say that my least favorite tire among the bunch is probably the stock ms3 re050a's. cant say i am impressed with the grip or the turn-in, though they are decent overall.

my favorite is split pretty evenly between the azenis and the gs-d3's. the first having a fantastically firm sidewall and incredibly aggressive and sticky tread. i ran some canyons up north near napa and they were predictably audible and extremely grippy, even in some aggressive downhill driving. in the end though, they only lasted me around 12k miles and the noise became only slightly annoying. i warn against running these with lower tread in the winter though. as fun as it was sliding around corners, it was a little scary how easy it was to lose traction in wet.

the gs-d3's were overall a stellar tire. fairly stiff sidewalls, extremely grippy, and had fantastic tread life. i ran it through an extremely wet winter and even on some shadier uneven puddled roads i felt absolutely confident and sure footed. i cant say it was the stickiest rubber or that it had the stiffest sidewalls, but they did everything well and lasted a ridiculously long time.

notable mention in my list would have to be the exclaim uhp tire. i got these after wearing through my falkens and i was pleasantly surprised. not quite as sticky, but definitely enough to be fun and safe. the sidewalls squished a lot more, so i would suggest going with a 40 profile to keep your turn in a bit sharper. overall though, the comfort and performance for the money - i was extremely satisfied.

a few tires my friends have run and loved are:
re01-r
pilot sport 2's
direzza star spec

any of those would make fantastic street tires. i would heartily recommend the ps2's if playing double duty as a commuter and fun vehicle.

hope it helps!

[cosmicspd3]

Well spring is coming so I need to get my stock rims new rubber..Still havent got the new tires but I'm pretty set on getting the KDW2's, they are about $168 a piece. The ps2's were well in to the $200's so where the pzero's.

[kwsmithphoto]

Originally Posted by ms3077 The only 225/40/18's that I've seen that are actually within specs of our rims (MS3) are the Yokohama Parada Spec 2's - Tire Specs for Yokohama Parada Spec-2 Test results: Ultra High Performance Summer Tires With An Attitude Note: They do great in the wet.

That's a 6 year old test. Look at where they are on the user survey results - #16, lower than the RE050A's our cars came with.

Well spring is coming so I need to get my stock rims new rubber..Still havent got the new tires but I'm pretty set on getting the KDW2's, they are about $168 a piece. The ps2's were well in to the $200's so where the pzero's.

Why? They're virtually the same price as the GS-D3 Goodyears, and the Goodyear's are rated much better. verbalink is right, IMO, these are still probably the best all-around tire right now for the money once you factor in their long life.

I spent some time reading through the comments on Star Spec's and they sound very promising, but their treadwear rating is way overstated, most people seem to get about 10K out of them on average, and the ride quality is little unpleasant. If that doesn't bother you then go for them instead because they grip better. Price is in the same neighborhood too.

Me, well I think I'm gonna go back to the tried and true Goodyears. Unlike the Star Specs they actually live up to their treadwear rating. I actually replaced my first set before the tread was worn out. Reason? I only drive about 8500 miles a year. After about 2.5 years they were starting to lose ultimate grip, yet they still had plenty of tread left. I replaced them with a new set and all the grip came back. At 10K when I sold the car the second set were worn about the same as the MS3 Potenzas are now, at 3K.

My assumption is that the rubber was hardening from time and environmental exposure (no garage here). Rubber does that, especially when subjected to a lot of heat cycles. They may not have the ultimate grip that some other tires do, but they certainly aren't bad, and the TR survey results and user comments seem to generally reflect that.

BTW, they came stock on the Golf MK4 R32. A neighbor of mine has a highly modded one and is on his 2nd or 3rd set. He runs a LOT of track days, and uses R-comp's for that, but he runs the Goodyears on the road because they have plenty of grip for road use, and help take the edge off his track-biased suspension setup for daily driver duty. He also enjoys their incredible wet performance and cost-benefit ratio.

[cosmicspd3]

KDW2's because they were rated better for handling than the gs-d3's and I drive 30k miles a year....so tread life is fairly important along with wet/dry handling. Id rather purchase 1 set of tires per summer than 2

Oh also wanted to say I am considering the conti ContiSportContact 3's. They got retty good reviews, are in the max performance summer category and are only $170 a tire.

[kwsmithphoto]

Are they really comparable? Tire Rack puts the Goodrich's in a lesser category. Their test and the user survey says they're very noisy, too.

They look cool though!

[08_ms3_gt]

bringing the thread back from the dead...

i'm shopping for new tires.. prolly going to get hankook rs2's b/c i really liked them on my last car.

the tire guy says 235's will fit, but 225's are available (both with 40 sidewall). any recommendations? i thought 225 was the limit for stock wheels.

[6262ms3]

Originally Posted by aragorn764 Anybody else has em?? im running 235/40's

Yeah, I'm running them in the same size. They're a great jack of all trades master of none summer performance tire. My only real gripe is that their turn-in could be sharper.

[ms3077]

Originally Posted by Corndogler The Azenis rt615 in 225 40, will fit on the stock rims just fine correct? Also, what is the best place to get them?

I'm sure you can fit them on there but they're not within mfg specs (7.5-9.0)

[ms3077]

Originally Posted by mordant80 OMFG!!! ONOES!!! I really just wish you would shut up about that. IT DOESN'T MATTER!! ANY 225/40/18 IS FINE ON THE STOCK WHEEL! No issues, no concerns, no ill-handling, NOTHING! In fact it's probably the best non stock size you can run on the stock wheel.. no rubbing like the 225/45/18's are known to do in the back. MUCH better tire selection than the stock size, hence better prices. Seriously, quit discouraging people from running this size, there's no need for it.

listen douche, I'm just giving the facts. If you don't like the facts go back to sucking a dick you 24/7 homo.

[08_ms3_gt]

anyone? i did post awhile ago about 225's and got great responses that some 225's work. BUT the "tire guy" i generally buy from claimed 235's fit.

235's on stock wheels = major no-no?

and he also told me that 235/40 has more speedo accuracy than 225/40.

and ms3077, what do the mfg specs of 7.5-9.0 mean?

[Sacrilicious]

don't bother getting 235s on stock rims, because you're not doing yourself any favors. if you put wide tires on a narrow rim, it pulls the treads inwards at the edges because the rim is too narrow. this screws with handling and grip, and really just takes away all the advantages of getting wider tires to begin with. if you're going to run the stock rims, go no wider than 225s. ms3077 was talking about 7.5"-9.0" rim width.

[08_ms3_gt]

Originally Posted by mordant80 235/45 would be less accurate than 225/45.. just getting taller and taller from the 215/45 stock size... Maybe he meant 235/40's? Those would be more accurate IIRC. Never ran 235's personally though. I might give it a try next time around, but I wouldn't be putting them on the stock wheel.

whoops yea i meant 40 sidewall as opposed to 45.

thanks guys, i'll prolly roll with 225's. buying wider wheels is tempting, but i don't really have the $$$ right now

[Sacrilicious]

Originally Posted by mordant80 235/45 would be less accurate than 225/45.. just getting taller and taller from the 215/45 stock size... Maybe he meant 235/40's? Those would be more accurate IIRC. Never ran 235's personally though. I might give it a try next time around, but I wouldn't be putting them on the stock wheel.

ya, 235/40 is really close to stock. i run them on 8" wide rx8 rims, and i LOVE them!

if you want to get a good set of wider rims for an affordable price, then consider rx8 rims. they're strong, look good, and match well with our cars (mazda center caps). their specs are: 18x8 @50mm offset...~22lbs each. stock rims are: 18x7 @52.5mm offset...~24lbs. honestly, the stock rims are ridiculously narrow, so getting that fixed up is all you need to go 235 with max benefits...

[Sacrilicious]

fyi: you can get a set of rx8 rims for about $400 used from rx8 mazda forums.

[ms3077]

Originally Posted by mordant80 You're the one with a quote about suckin cock in your sig... You're not giving facts, you're giving paper specs or "manufacturer recomendations".. I'm giving facts and experience. ANY 225/40/18 tire is fine on the stock wheel, done.

If you or anyone else wants to run with a tire not designed for your wheel I don't give a shit. However, some people just might want to know if a particular tire was actually designed to fit their wheel. Sacrilicious gave a pretty good explanation as to why it might not be a good idea. Do me a favor and get off my nutz thanx.

[FCmaniac]

I'm running 235/40 Azenis on 7.5" wide rims with no issues. It grips like a mofo and looks like it was designed to fit together. I honestly can't tell by looking or driving that the tire is slightly too wide according to manufacturer specs.

[Sacrilicious]

fyi...this is how cool you could be with rx8 rims:

EDIT: errrr...i posted the wrong pic...blahhhhhh

[FCmaniac]

Originally Posted by mordant80 Sweet, what's the offset on those wheels? I probly will slap some 235's on next time.. I've got a +48 offset.

+45

[kwsmithphoto]

The instructor I got at my last track day owns an MS3 and runs Azenzi 615's on the stock wheels, 235/40-18 without any problems and says they have a little more grip than the 225/40 size.

That's not to say he's the fountain of truth about everything, but he has compared the same tire in two sizes on his MS3 on the track. The 235/40 has a higher load rating than their 225/40 (95W vs. 92W), which usually implies a stiffer sidewall. He thinks that's why they work just fine, even though Falken recommends a wider wheel.

But all he really cares about is that his lap times are quicker on the 235/40's.

BTW, discounttiredirect.com has them for $150 each, free shipping with a set of 4.

[glocK23]

Instead of making a new thread, I was wondering what you guys recommend

Nitto NT-555
Nitto Neogen

Is there something better than the above tires?

[802MS3]

doesn't nitto have an NT-05 now? pretty sure it came out recently.

[Nliiitend1]

Originally Posted by glocK23 Instead of making a new thread, I was wondering what you guys recommend Nitto NT-555 Nitto Neogen Is there something better than the above tires?

There are MANY better than the above tires...

What are you looking to get out of your tires??