How to install a Treadstone TR11 Intercooler

[cld12pk2go]

In my quest for more power, I discovered that I had a pretty large restriction in my CXRacing IC0035 when pushing my GTX3071 to ~25 PSI (at intake manifold) up top, which would result in ~30 PSI measured at my turbo discharge. I evidently had somewhere in the vicinity of 5 PSI of pressure drop through the relatively small IC, which is obviously huge.

I do not mean to rip on the IC0035 as it is a decent and inexpensive IC if you are using a K04, but it simply was too small for my needs now with the larger turbo and required replacing.

I had originally wanted to get a Treadstone TR8L; however, after being jerked around for 2 months it became obvious that it was essentially on infinite backorder as they were in short supply and all were going to Treadstone's 350Z/G35 turbo kits...

I had originally been hesitant to get an IC that required cutting up the crashbar, which is why I wanted the TR8L initially as it is about the largest IC that would meet that criteria.

However, I eventually settled on the Treadstone TR11.

So on to the install:

Here is the initial starting point with my PG IC Piping kit and IC0035.




Here is the IC0035 with bumper removed. I haven’t had anything supporting the IC since I removed the PG IC support. It was removed as it starting rusting epically (since it was built using mild steel instead of stainless).




Here is an initial test fit of the TR11. I didn’t know exactly what I was going to do to mount it initially. I could have cut out the front plastic to completely open the area in front of the IC and the IC would have filled the space nicely.





So first thing is I pulled the Styrofoam on the crashbar and then used a 4.5’’ angle grinder to sand away the 10 welds holding this piece into place and used the BFH to convince it to release from the greater crashbar. Removing this avoids having to do a lot of extra cutting.







I left the IC0035 hooked up the entire time to prevent any dust/metal shavings from getting into my piping.

I then used a Sawall to make the two vertical cuts on each edge and used the 4.5’’ angle grinder to make the horizontal cut to cut the bottom half out of the crashbar. This took 2-3 hours all together as I learned the hard way that the Sawall was useless for the horizontal cut (burned though 2 blades in about 6’’), but was essential for the vertical cuts.

I then used a 120 grit flapper disk to smooth the affected areas to prep for painting as I don’t want any rust later.




After 2 coats of paint:



IC comparisons:
CXRacing IC0035: core = 22’’x7’’x2.5’’, 28’’ overall width

cxracing.com: Front Mount Intercooler 28"x7"x2.5", 2.5" Core: 22"x7"x2.5", 2.5" Inlet & Outlet, , BMW Audi A4 Golf

Treadstone TR11: core = 21.5’’x11’’x3’’, 28.5’’ overall width

TR11 Intercooler- TREADSTONE PERFORMANCE







The TR11 is way bigger and has the nice flow guides on both the inlet and outlet to assure good flow distribution to the top of the IC.

Next I did a test fit with the IC unsupported and the bumper plastic removed to gage how I wanted to proceed.




Since I was mostly concerned with pressure drop and not high BATs, I elected to take the easy route of just returning to the stock arrangement, although I did raise the front license plate mount another ~0.75’’. I decided that I was going to need some type of support for the IC. So after hunting around my garage, I rigged up a simple and elegant solution (redneck engineering at its finest).




Final product:






Next time I pull my bumper I will move the driver’s side bungee cord a little farther over to completely remove it from sight. I will also raise the IC another ~3/4’’ as I had to push it up a little when buttoning up the undertray stuff. But it still fit easy enough.

After the fact upate: Since I purchased some SS wire to help mount my CNT CBE tip away from my bumper, I replaced my Bunge cords with SS wire at the mounting points on the IC. It was easier to get obtain the mount height I wanted with the wire. I would definitely recommend spending the ~$15 for SS wire from Fastenal instead of bunge cords as it is much easier to set the desired height with accuracy to allow for the bumper/bottom air cover to be installed without having to push up on the IC.


So how does the TR11 perform?
Well it appears my turbo discharge pressure is now more like ~2-3 PSI over my intake manifold pressure instead of ~5 PSI before. The bouncy manual boost gage signal from the turbo discharge makes it difficult to exactly measure this, but it is clearly lower than before.

From a Boost Air Temp perspective, it appears that the TR11 is performing better even though a fair amount of its frontal area isn’t exposed to direct air flow. These are all 4th gear pulls from ~2500-6500 RPMs with my M10 meth nozzle going full tilt with 100% V1 meth:




In each case the TR11 delivered lower BATs and in the 93°F ambient case I was below ambient temp all the way to redline.


Unfortunately, I was not able to achieve hardly any additional massflow after this upgrade. This leads me to strongly suspect I am choked up on the exhaust side either at my ATP 0.55 A/R turbine housing at my stock CBE.

I will be replacing the stock CBE in a week or so to determine if it was the issue...

[Etipp98]

Were you using the MAP sensor as your IM boost reference? I am debating trying to figure out my actual PD from outlet to IM. I have a $3,000 air data mulitmeter I use for work, and was going to try to "T" from my boost source to my VTCS module. Im running cx racing piping with tr8 core.

[cld12pk2go]

Originally Posted by Etipp98 Were you using the MAP sensor as your IM boost reference? I am debating trying to figure out my actual PD from outlet to IM. I have a $3,000 air data mulitmeter I use for work, and was going to try to "T" from my boost source to my VTCS module. Im running cx racing piping with tr8 core.

I was comparing my MAP sensor data on the AP vs the manual boost gage with the signal coming from the turbo discharge ATP boost tap.

It is a relatively crude comparison, but can easily see large differences.

[G Sp33dy]

where is everyone buying their cxracing piping kits, they do not list it on their site.

great write up btw. love the bungees lol

[Haltech]

Piping kits from PG

[Dmurray06]

Holy massive intercooler batman.

[cld12pk2go]

Originally Posted by Dmurray06 Holy massive intercooler batman.

Yep, and it actually fit very well. I actually didn't have to touch anything on my PG Piping kit arrangement. The only couplers I loosened were those connecting to the IC, which help result in zero boost leaks.

Overall, I must say that the TR11 is a very well engineered IC with great build quality at an attractive price.

I would definitely recommend it to anyone.

[superskaterxes]

i did this test several weeks ago but without swapping IC's

from the turbo outlet boost gauge reference to the MAP sensor i saw a 4-5psi drop across all piping and IC. treadstone claims a 2psi MAX pressure drop for 1000CFM for my TR1035. theres no way my 2.5" hotside and 3" cold side piping is accounting for a 3 PSI drop (esp because im no where near 1000CFM).


ive been meaning to call them about this but havent had a chance. i wanna see their flow data/tests to support this claim.

[cld12pk2go]

Originally Posted by superskaterxes i did this test several weeks ago but without swapping IC's from the turbo outlet boost gauge reference to the MAP sensor i saw a 4-5psi drop across all piping and IC. treadstone claims a 2psi MAX pressure drop for 1000CFM for my TR1035. theres no way my 2.5" hotside and 3" cold side piping is accounting for a 3 PSI drop (esp because im no where near 1000CFM). ive been meaning to call them about this but havent had a chance. i wanna see their flow data/tests to support this claim.

I am assuming your data was with the TB wide open? Else a significant DP will be expected across the TB...

Yes, I was hoping to see more like 1-2 PSI DP instead of 2-3; however, I cannot say my measurement system is accurate or precise enough to say how the IC is actually performing...

In general, I take all aftermarket parts' performance data with a few lbs of salt unless I have multiple independent dyno confirmations...

[superskaterxes]

Originally Posted by cld12pk2go I am assuming your data was with the TB wide open? Else a significant DP will be expected across the TB... Yes, I was hoping to see more like 1-2 PSI DP instead of 2-3; however, I cannot say my measurement system is accurate or precise enough to say how the IC is actually performing... In general, I take all aftermarket parts' performance data with a few lbs of salt unless I have multiple independent dyno confirmations...

yes WOT

i figured 4-5 psi was a little excessive

and normally i do too but i figured a company like treadstone would be a little more reputable.

[Etipp98]

Well all I need is another quick tap boost fitting and ill be able to get accurate pressure drops across my tr8 or entire piping from outlet to IM. Not sure what the results would gain anybody though.

tapatawk

[cld12pk2go]

Originally Posted by superskaterxes yes WOT i figured 4-5 psi was a little excessive and normally i do too but i figured a company like treadstone would be a little more reputable.

I haven't tried to run the fluid dynamic calcs on the expected DP through all the IC piping and TB, but I suppose it is in the realm of possibility that it could be on the order of 1-2 PSI at ~50 lbs/min massflow rates...

Has anyone taken a stab at running these calcs to see if they are in the range that could significantly impact our measurements? I doubt I will have time to try this in the near future.

Originally Posted by Etipp98 Well all I need is another quick tap boost fitting and ill be able to get accurate pressure drops across my tr8 or entire piping from outlet to IM. Not sure what the results would gain anybody though. tapatawk

It would be interesting to see the difference, to know how much pressure drop is just across the IC vs the pressure drop from turbo outlet to MAP sensor...

[Jackis]

Nice write-up here! Thanks!

The same reason lead me to swap IC0035 core to IC0037 one
cxracing.com: Front Mount Intercooler 28"x9"x2.75", 2.75" Core: 21"x9"x2.75", 2.5"Inlet & Outlet, GOLF Maxima

I am now in process of welding custom downpipe for Tial hotside and EWG and I really hope that I finish it all (so my car is again up and running) in a week or so, so I can share all the photos at once.

[cld12pk2go]

FYI,

Since I purchased some SS wire to help mount my CNT CBE tip away from my bumper, I replaced my Bunge cords with SS wire at the mounting points on the IC. It was easier to get obtain the mount height I wanted with the wire.

[cld12pk2go]

FYI,

It turns out my lack of massflow was due to my stock BPV leaking around 23-24 PSI...

[Speedie6]

Originally Posted by Haltech Piping kits from PG

I remember a couple of years ago PG offering MS6 piping kits, but, haven't seen that on their site. They still make them?

I'm not fully understanding how the intercooler can be being well used if a lot of it isn't getting airflow. Even cutting the crash bar, the grill is only about 8".

[cld12pk2go]

Originally Posted by Speedie6 I remember a couple of years ago PG offering MS6 piping kits, but, haven't seen that on their site. They still make them? I'm not fully understanding how the intercooler can be being well used if a lot of it isn't getting airflow. Even cutting the crash bar, the grill is only about 8".

I was going for lower pressure drop, which the larger core allowed. In addition, the extra mass outside of the direct airflow also provides more cooling capability.

I thought someone started offering a similar piping kit recently, but not sure.

Either way, you don't need a PG piping kit, just something similar.

[Speedie6]

Originally Posted by cld12pk2go I was going for lower pressure drop, which the larger core allowed. In addition, the extra mass outside of the direct airflow also provides more cooling capability. I thought someone started offering a similar piping kit recently, but not sure. Either way, you don't need a PG piping kit, just something similar.

Thanks. I know there are piping kits. As far as I know, the primary piping kit is the CX Racing. And there are some eBay knock-offs of the CX kit. But, I was curious as to what happened to the PG kit. And if it happened to still be available, I would at least consider it.

[cld12pk2go]

Originally Posted by Speedie6 Thanks. I know there are piping kits. As far as I know, the primary piping kit is the CX Racing. And there are some eBay knock-offs of the CX kit. But, I was curious as to what happened to the PG kit. And if it happened to still be available, I would at least consider it.

I do not believe the PG is available anymore. I want to say I read that one of the other cheap kits is basically the same.

Note, I did have to slightly shorten 1 pipe to work with the TR11.

[Mase33]

great pic there ! sounds interesting ...

[Iamjdm]

Damn