1/4 mile times on AP or MSF maps
 

What's the deal with not one person showing trap speed changes or 1/4 mile times change on the stage 1 v.101 maps or MSF maps vs their previous times(I realize the MSF havent been out that long but with hundreds of people somebody should have tried something out by now at least on the v.101 maps). I live in southern cal and this year I went twice to Fontana (California Speedway) to do some testing and baselining against the G-tech so I wouldnt need to go back to the track to keep track of performance but in August I am going back again to again validate my findings.

hold off for a while I think better maps are coming from what everyone is saying. I haven't gone back to the stock map since I got the AP, so I can't even remember what it feels like.

dont get me wrong , I will hold off til the end of time.... not like I have a choice. But I cant imagine that I am the only customer that has verified for himself if these maps have actually made a positive change in the performance of their car. If I heard a bunch of guys saying, yeah went to the track and now I am trapping at 102mph instead of 100mph like I was a month ago or guys saying crap I am trapping 97mph instead of the 99mph like I usually do at least I would have some type of reference to see if I am an isolated case or everyone elses "feel" of the car is just that instead of actual performance gains. Maybe I am too inquisitive but for $700 smackers ..........

I have lap times available...not exactly what you're looking for but it may help:

AP Stage 1+SF Map Test Lap Times - TorontoMazda3

I might post it in here officially...

People who seem to own APs dont hit the track. I cant get you track times because i dont own a AP. Otherwise, i would try these myself and show any gains, losses or neutral power gains.

not all AP owners have a track remotely close to them too :(

Find it weird that everyone went with the Dashhawk which like Haltech said I myself dont believe is very accurate in acceleration numbers , which is why I went with a device that has no connection to the car other than for power, and I have had great accuracy and success in the past. My decision is basically do I give up on the ms CAI and bite the bullet on the Cobb intake and maybe still I find that the maps have no performance increase (at least for drag racing) or do I wait until....... other guys confirm with my same setup that I am just an isolated incident.

Well there are probably 20 people around other boards who would buy that mscai from you. The MSCAI has caused its problems with hotter tunes, that isn't a secret. The question is, how far can we push a persons car using one until we realize its too dangerous. The decision is solely yours. If you want to keep the CAI style, you can go with the CPE pipe as it too straightens the incoming air like the SRI does. Or you can swag it out with mscai or dish out the money and go with a SRI. Ultimately, it depends on your patience and what you want out of the car.

just curious, what are nuetral gains?

No power gained, no power lost = map didnt work.

what track do u go to? we all know it doesnt add power, i dont see the issue. at least the first ap map didnt do anything, "feel" is a placebo thing. i would be interested in trap info though, best judge of a cars power.

like stated, ap owners dont go to the track....
the two that i remember off the top of my head were sls and i think he didnt really gain any trap, maybe 1.x mph and the other one lost trap

i try to steer clear of Ca Speedway at all costs. I usually meet up with a large domestic crowd who rents out Bakersfield raceway 7 times a year. For $125, we have about 175 cars with unlimited runs, lines and less "tech" enforcement if you catch my drift. So, i would head up there since they have that beautiful 600 ft concrete launch pad.

For quick testing, i would just goto Irwindales's 1/8th mile on thur nights. Its not the best way to measure gains, but its acceptable since that track is very well prepped and has better temps than fontana any day of the week.

If i get there when they open, i could easily get in 11 runs before it gets really crowded. so from 3-6, 11 slips and start the excel spreadsheet for data acquisition.

yeah I thought about going to Irwindale but these cars blow on the eighth, but Fontana does suck at both prep and temps (my car was super inconsistent when it got to 90 degree temps) that is the main reason I do most of my cough cough ..."testing" out in East Irvine late at night , no altitude and cold!!!!!

So if we all know it doesnt add power why are there people running any of the maps? I would love to "feel" more power/ driveability but not at the expense of the simple reality that my car is slower now if I run the maps. I cant believe anyone here bought the AP without thinking that priority #1 was for the car to be faster...... I could be wrong though.

welp we could always hook up and see if we can get down there by the old el toro air base for testing :)

I went to the track with the 1.00 map, and I had a positive 1-2mph trap speed difference compared to stock ECU. I haven't been lately because I don't like hitting the track when the temp is 100+ outside. IMO, that's just too fucking hot to be sitting in the staging lanes burning up. But "for the good of the community" I'll go tomorrow and see how the MSF FT map does.

I got a spot that I have been using (at least 40 times) in the course of a year with no "close calls" . Wont say it over the internet for fear that our friend in white and blue might shut down the "track"

PM me the location...:deal:

Thats awesome that you would test for the sake of the community, but on my end I have to compare apples to apples and since I am running a ms CAI only I have to compare myself to others in that league , if you know what I mean. (for all I know the Ap is wonderful on stage 2...who knows)

i was under the impression that fontana is rarely open for the 1/4 mile.

Pretty much, i posted their schedule in the drag race section. The whole purpose of them having that strip was to relieve the street racing in the IE. They have failed miserably to provide the means to curb it. When they first opened, they were running track days, weekly.

July 19th, August 16th,November1st and 2nd, December 6th and 7th..... they do add dates every now and again. I went a month ago on a Saturday that hadnt been officially scheduled until 2 weeks before but by luck I caught it, only about 50 of us showed up and I myself had 27 passes from 9am to 430pm, a guy in a s2000 honda had about 40 (that of course contributed to some inconsistent times)

i think ill go in nov.. nice and cool.

Definitely let me know on that one so we can meet up, last month when I went I met up with a kid running just a cobb sri and catback and while I was killing him on the 330' by the time the 1000' came he was always blowing by me and consistently trapped 2 mph higher than myself (I was running stage 1 v.100 then) that weekend is when I started testing the Stock maps against the v.100 and a week later the stage 1 v.101's vs the stock v.101 and well... the rest is history

I hear ya, ill let you know and maybe we can get a group of guys to head over there and race.

perfect! anyone else live in so-cal on this forum?

Strange, with the V100 map, I was .4 slower and lost 4mph.

Im going to try to make it to the track tomorrow night. I was going to go last weekend, but they had a different event going on.

I will be going on August 9th at PIR. I believe there will be a Unichip car running that day also.

I have been waiting for someone to swith to the sri to see if it made a difference. However, the power increase for the ms cai and sri maps (as per the map notes on cobb's website) is the same. I wonder if those numbers are arcurate. Looking forward to seeing some trap times.

I think what Haltech hinted at is right, the MS CAI when pushed to higher limits (at least in the direction Cobb is going) might end up proving to be the thing that keeps us from seeing results. Christian told me that he believed the MS CAI was a less than optimal piece of hardware for tuning this ECU. Now if that is because from a business point of view they will put more effort on their (COBB INTAKE) hardware/software tunes or because maybe the MS CAI really is a piece of crap who knows? I would just hate to get the Cobb intake and realize that it gives me no advantage over the ms CAI , whether its running stock v.101 or stage 1 or MSF or whatever. Thats why I want others to get involved and give REAL feedback not just butt impressions.

I'm not liking what I'm reading about the MSCAI. I'm more of a drag guy than anything else so I'm looking for more aggressive tunes. If the MSCAI is going to be a hindrance, I'll pack it up and ship it to someone on 247. It makes sense though. Mazda never intended it to be a foundation piece. It's the MSCAI and the MScatback and that's it in terms of mods.

for the record, I gained about ~1-2 mph in the qm and that was without shifting into 5th. I think I would have gained another 1 or 2 mph. This was on the v101 stg 1+ MSCAI map.

I would like to know exactly what about the ms cai prevents more agressive tunes.

seems to be the lack of air straightener. I guess the ill effects of that get amplified with hotter tunes where what the maf sees becomes even more important. I'm just speculating but it seems like that's the case.

The whole idea of turbulent air flow across the MAF. That why Mazda, COBB, and CP-E put in air flow straighteners. I remember when someone brought this up way back, when the CP-E CAI was released - big controversy! But it was enough to make me sell mine.

I can tell you this - with the new map i am running higher boost for a longer duration in the rpm range, vitually zero knock retard and it pulls stronger than stock. I forgot to log timing. Will do that today .

Harry

Harry, so your now using the stage 1+ SRI full throttle map from this site? Cause if I remember, you said the standard stage 1 yielded better results than the standard stage1+SRI map (non full throttle). Have you had a chance to dyno the full throttle map? thanks

well, after clicking the links in your sig, I must say that I respect your opinion lol. That said, it seems to fall in line with what other have said. The MSF map holds boost longer, boosts a hair higher and on my car has ZERO knock. I get no timing pull whatsoever.

Also, using the AP's 1/4 timer, I was able to get a 15.1 with the MSF FT map where as my previous best, even on the v101 maps was a 15.6. My previous best et was never better than 96 mph with the v101 Stg1 + MSCAI map but with the MSF FT version, i got a high 98. If you ask me, that's an HP gain attributable to a more powerful map.

I'll be hitting the strip on the 23rd of july and this time I'll shift into 5th. Hopefully I can shut the pundits up.

I know the ms cai lacks an air straightener, but why does that prevent hot tunes. Is boost inconsistent does it get to lean. All christian needs to do is add more fuel to compensate. I am guessing it is too inconsistent or the fuel pump gets maxed out when he asked for more power.

Without the air straighteners, the airflow is more turbulent and the MAF doesn't neccessarily read the correct amount of air coming through the intake. Since the stock tune is so rich to begin with, there's enough leeway to get away with it. With a hotter tune, the margin for error goes down and it's more important that the MAF is reading correctly.

That sounds like bs to me, if the ms cai is so inconsistent I would be developing different fuel trims everytime my ecu is reset with a new map. Fact is they are identicle on every map made for the ms cai. I am aware of what an air straightener does but I still have seen no evidence that the ms cai is an inferior product, which is why I don't have the sri yet. That and you can't find the sri anywhere.

before the AP, my car threw the infamous "too lean" code associated w/ the MSCAI. It threw it once, then never came back. I could never replicate it. My LTFT's have always been good w/ the MSCAI. I would love to see a comparison of some kind between two identically modded cars, the difference being the MSCAI vs the SRI. I'm not neccessarily talking about speed or HP, more LTFT, AF, boost etc.

me too

Hal & Lenny,

Let me know if you guys plan something for Irwindale, I'm about an hour from the track. I've got some base numbers from Irwindale so it would be interesting to compare. I agree about Fontana and avoid it at all costs.

My LTFTs are also good with the mscai maps. Although theoretically, if there were lets say...lean spikes due to the inconsistancy of the mscai, would the LTFTs really adjust that much??? Wouldnt these spikes only happen a fraction of the time and not have a significant effect on long term fuel trims.

I havent gone to Irwindale (other than to watch stock cars go around, which was pretty boring) but PM next time you go and I will go, I dont get out of work til 630 pm out of Buena Park so best eta to that track would be 715pm or so. I am actually still contemplating going tommorrow morning to Fontana, if anyone else was thinking about going let me know, it might sway my decision.

As far as these maps holding more boost longer than the stage 1 v.101 maps I agree and I have shown that they are faster, I just go back to that stock v.101 that for me keeps showing faster traps always (which is why I wanted to go tomorrow to see how it compares to last months runs I had on the v.100 maps)

Lenny, I have what you are looking for. Last Friday night, July 11th at Texas Motor Speedway with AP v101L stg 1+ mscai map and mscbe. Ran 1/4 mile 15 times. Average 60' 2.324 (best 2.253), 1/4 14.5 (best 14.119)
Trap 95 mph (best 97.52 mph). Temp. was in the low 90's.

Uploaded V101 aFT (MSF version) last Monday (driven over 1000 miles).
Tonight (July 18th) I will be going back to Texas Motor Speedway. Like you I am curious...I will post results after midnight or tomorrow A.M.

I get your point. But why would Mazda put them in on the stock piece? I really think it helps. I use to have the MS CAI and do prefer how the car drives with the COBB. 2 cents is all.

whats different about it.

For shits and giggles, can u flash the stock v.101 map (not the stage 1 stock intake) just the stock v.101 after you make enough passes on the MSF versions. Again I have a CA car so the map that runs fastest for me compared to EVERY single stage 1 map released (Cobb, MSF etc etc)up to this point is the stock style v.101 map CA version. At least that will let me know how they differ for you, but as far as stage 1 v.101 vs stage 1 MSF I am already in full agreement that the MSF maps run faster. (what r your mods ?)

Low to mid range punch improved. accelerating from low RPM's in 4-6th gear is smoother. (less hiccups/spitting). I did enjoy the CAI - butt dyno noticed it, but like the SRI better. Plus it's easier to clean/replace filters.

cool, can't wait for your feedback. Man, 15 runs? Even on a good night at my track, I'm lucky to get 3-4. I consider 5 a very good night.

Be sure to post your results!

Thanks for doing this! Definitely awaiting the results ;)

I'm getting ready to head out to the track, and it's 104 outside right now. I make no promises about how many times we'll be able to run tonight. I've already lost my camera person because it's too hot. Ideally I'll be able to compare the various Stage2 maps, and zspeed can do the same with the Stage1 maps. Any other requests for any particular maps?

good luck, but your wasting your time...i give you 1 run before ure ic temps are in the 150 area while ure staging lol

Push-stage it!!

Where is WA do you live? Im down in Vancouver, so PIR is a short drive for me.

If he drives there, his IC temps will be higher than that unless he can keep driving without waiting to stage for long. I was up at 230* on a cool night when I went 13.4 at 104.

Im bringing an iced down water bottle with a spray nozel to hose down the IC to try keep things a little cooler this time.

update your dashhawk cause ure running an old version

If u are running 230 degrees you got problems homie. (on the AP the old firmware was wrong , like loosh said make sure it's updated)

I ve run at Fontana on a 90+ degree weather at 140+ temps on the IC, in contarst when I do my "night testing" I make sure it's always below 105 when launching. (the only thing I look at with the AP when testing for performance is the launch temp, just to make its consistent)

That was with the old firmware, so we'll see how things go tonight.

Going to try some 2nd gear WOT box launches this evening. Clutch dont fail me now!

Im stationed at Ft Lewis but am originally from Kirkland.

Dying to see the results, i believe he trapped 109 on the stock tune on a much colder day

Well, no REAL track times to report but tonight, using the AP, I again tested the "Stg 1 + MSCAI MSF FT" map. My previous best was a 15.1 (first FT map) at barely 98 mph. new best tonight, was 14.81 @ 98.98. that was on my second pass. Again, no timing pull, good a/f's through out and LTFT's are at 2% at idle, 3-4-5 at tip in throttle and 1% at WOT. I didn't get to monitor boost though but it felt like it was pulling. I've never chirpped 4th gear in this car. Hell, even my t3t4 Audi A4 wouldn't chirp 4th (I'm sure w/ quattro it wouldn't even w/ 500 hp). In fact, I don't recall my mustang ever chirpping. Tonight, after 600 or so miles on the MSF FT map, I chirpped 4 without even going all out. I was getting scratch in 4th all night. I haven't installed the WOT box yet. No flat shifting either, just a good gear change. I guess that debunks the "disappearing power on Cabb map" myth. My best 60 ft was a 2.41 so I know my driver skill isn't what has made the difference here. while on the v101 version, I could never get better than a 15.6 and my best mph was maybe a 95. on the v100, my best et was maybe a 15.6 -7 but with a best trap of 94-95. If that isn't proof we're heading in the right direction, I don't know what is. To put it all in perspective, My first time at the track, these were my results w/ MSCAI only (no AP):

r/t .313 1.608 .347
60' 2.349 2.473 2.241
330' 6.444 6.833 6.396
1/8 9.727 10.394 10.033
mph 75.22 71.91 71.36
1000' 12.502 13.278 12.940
1/4 14.857 15.641 15.307
mph 96.60 95.64 96.95

Then I got the AP, and didn't get back to the Track until I had the v101 Stg1 + MSCAI map: best mph was a 97.81, best ET of the night was a 14.889 @ 96.95 with a 2.412 60 ft. That was on a hotter more humid night and I got 5 runs total as opposed to the three the first time. so purely by looking at numbers, one could speculate the v101 maps are worth about 7-10 hp in Stg 1 + MSCAI form. That wasn't the F Beta 101 map either which felt stronger than the final release map that I used that night. i can only speculate now but you know where I'm going with that.

when I ran those REAL track times, I also ran the AP 1/4 mi and that's when I could never muster better than 15.60's at 95 tops. So now with the release of the FT maps, I've gained about 3 mph on the AP consistently. I'm willing to bet the margin on the track will be even greater.

I should reflash back to the v101 release map just to prove the point but I don't want to because I really like the MSF FT map A LOT!!! It's been proven the throttle stay's open all the way until redline. We're making more power now. I think Cobb has been somewhat vindicated here. they certainly don't deserve the hating and bashing they get here. I still want better faster more aggressive maps though. I really hope the Stg 2 + MSCAI + FMIC map is a killer.

I got my best 60 ft time on a 0-60 run tonight, i hit a 2.019. I turned the dsc off and just spun through 1st. I thought that would make it slower and easing into it but apparantly its faster. By the way Im on a different map now.

ahemm...I'm having some serious map envy right now and I don't even know what freaking map you have.

If you are using the DH to log this, and you are spinning through first, how do you think the DH knows how fast you are ACTUALLY going?

Temp. 94 degrees, Did 7 runs first three 1/4 14.6's

4th R/T .170, 60' 2.357, 1/4 14.507 Trap 96.96
5th " .056 " 2.41 " 14.425 " 99.31
6th " .158 " 2.30 " 14.273 " 99.13
7th " .054 " 2.25 " 14.163 " 99.91

I run 1/4 mile to guage improvements, by no means do I consider ms3 a drag car.

Not bad for temps above 90 with just MSCAI, MSCBE and AP w/ aFT msf version.

I love this map especially on highway, speed3 has awesome mid range and top end. Is it time for a downpipe and FMIC or will there be more surprises for stage 1+?

Has anyone run 1/4 mile with Cobb SRI, MSCBE and AP aFT?

Quite disapointing results. My best time was 13.7 at 103. RP, Forge, AP, SRI. 2.2 60'. Previous best was 13.4 with SRI and the Forge at 104mph on the stock tune. It was quite a bit warmer tonight.

When switching to my stock tune, I lost 1 mph and 1/10 on average.

Need more fucking boost!

My Subie DP may be sold as of next week, so the CS DP should be purchased before too long.

I had a blown 05+ Mustang blow my doors off on my way to the track, pushing lots of black smoke (forced induction!)... he was a douche, but the car sure was nice. He wanted to race for slips, then money, I threw up the goose egg, he took the exit and hung his hand out like "whats going on?!" Faggot.

I consistantly trapped higher than my cousins STi swapped bugeye, 2-3mph more and would be realing him in towards the end of the 1/4, but never did beat him.

yea....im a hater.
like i said open your eyes. you can take a shit and gain 1mph int he traps

put about 400 miles on the msf stage 1 map the past 2 days and although I want the AP to be a hit, im not sure this latest map did it for me. The car feels sluggish when rolling in a given gear and then punching it but if you are around 5k and then downshift and wot, it feels great and pulls like Id imagine it should. My fuel trims are spot on, all within +/- 2, so at least my car isnt hating me for driving it.
I wouldnt bother dynoing this map, its clear its not a final product, the lag before 4k when rolling on throttle confirms its not quite there yet.
The only benefit I noticed is that it doesnt fall on its face so hard above 5.5k, but considering Ive learned to not drive the car there, it doesnt make my AP measured times any faster.

so, whens the new alpha map release party? :D Im rootin for ya cobb, but i think some people have a point when they say the tunes are not quite ready for showtime. The car needs its wow factor back.

so only intake and a bpv and you ran a 13.4??? I think I'm sold on a bpv. I didn't think the stocker leaked or had issues holding boost but I don't think anyone w/ just an intake has come that close to a 13.4 @ 104+.

yea I agree. but I think the maps will get better. especially w/ higher octane tunes.

^^ I feel the AP will be able to do anything the other tuners can, so im not worried in that regard. we just need someone to get nasty on the maps, maybe christian needs thicker glasses and a pocket protector. :)

it doesn't seem like Cobb will be the one to get us these "hot" tunes. We're probably going to have to wait for a pro tuner to do it for us or for the street tuner software to come out. the more maps I see, the more time passes and the more other people seem to have disappointing results, this is the conclusion I have as well. The CObb AP is a great product and will eventually let us do whatever we want to the car but the OTS maps seem to have that inherent limitation. they're just OTS maps, not a super aggressive tune.

What keeps throwing me for a loop is that my car seems to get better and better w/ every new map but some people are dynoing the same map I run and LOSING HP/TQ. further proof that every car is different?

I have been beta testing the v102b map for the ms cai for a couple of days. So far the map is much more reponsive than other maps I have used. It seems the torque comes on a bit sooner. The exhaust has a completely different note now, does that mean timing has been changed? In 80 degree weather the car was pulling very hard. The good thing is boost is down from other maps I have used. Why is that good you ask, because Christian is adding more boost to this map before the official release. Hopefully there will be quite a bit more power. I am only holding in the high 15's low 16's with boost right now but the car pulls just as hard if not harder than previous maps where I was holding high 16's-low 17's. Wheelspin has not increased so those wanting more wheelspin will probably still be dissappointed. I should be getting the increased boost map soon, so I hope christian pushes it some more on that map.

Have you guys seen ztuners dyno numbers? It shows the that the 101msf maps pull up to 6 degrees of timing. I guess that is why there is no knock retard with the ap maps and why the maps have not produced much in terms of gains. I guess they are safer though.

I did see that but I'm rather disappointed. the aFT MSF map was supposed to be balls out. I don't want knock but there has to be a middle ground. granted it's a "beta" of sorts. as you can see, I'm more than a little perturbed right now. :grumble:

I agree.

link?

You called it exactly right, and I knew as much going in. I only got in 3 runs. Ambient was between 91 and 94 all night. My first run, ic temps were in the high 140's, and they were in the 150's for the other 2. I ran a 13.4 @ 104, 14.1 @ 99, and 14.0 @ 99.

The only reason it wasn't a complete waste of time is thanks to Corvettes of Dallas. They're letting anyone with a timeslip from last night get 3 pulls on their dyno for $39. So sometime next week I'll head over there and get some numbers.

the 13.4 run looks good. I wish the car wasn't so sensitive to the heat. The first run is the best temp wise, but most people need a run or two to get the feel.

Can't wait to see the dynos. Maybe we'll have some new maps for ya to try out by then?

No, not balls out, just some added boost and opening throttle. The ball's out maps are being made right now, but after seeing this data, im not really sure how they will be. I think the whole making power using torque input is fuckin us over on power.

Not a real track time...but times from the AP, which have proved to be pretty consistent and accurate (at least for comparison sake).

Mods in sig, running Stage 2 + SF v101F map (not fmic)
Boost target is 17.6 and I hit right around that (only map that runs right, ha)

60': 2.729 (lol, cant spin the tires or it will cancel out of the run)

330': 6.541

0-60: 5.709

1/8: 9.527@85.147

1/4: 14.219@105.657

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u...3387Medium.jpg

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u...3389Medium.jpg

hey hal could you elaborate a little bit about what goes into a tune, as in, what does it take to get the car to do what you want? I assume there isnt just a table somewhere thats says, hey run this much boost. PM me if you'd like, thanx man

Im sorta near you, I live in ventura. Grew up in Rancho Santa Magarita. I have the cobb sri and the cobb ft tune v101and love it. Havnt timed it yet but hopefully soon. Where in irvine you run at? PM me.

I did have a near full tank in the car last night, plus a wedding gift, clothes, cooler, etc, the car was pretty loaded down. My 13.4 was with a near empty tank on a much cooler night. It still doesnt justify the barely any quicker times between the AP maps and stock, just figured Id throw that out there.

There is a ton of stuff that needs to be played with, just to raise boost. There's a plan to go into detail about this with documentation coming up actually.

With all due respect, something is wrong with 1/4 mile result @105 mph.
I've done countless 14.1's with low reaction times and never gone past 102 mph. Where I see discrepancy is with 60' @ 2.729, little high for 105 mph result. No big deal continue having fun!

whats so inaccurate about it? I am just not spinning the tires or launching that car whatsoever. Reason one being the AP will cancel out of the test mode if I do, and number 2 for consistency reasons for comparison.

Multiply by 0.9878 for Non stock tire size 821 rpmile vs 811 rpmile stock, unless you have been recalibrated.

^ thats a good point, i am running 235/40 but its pretty damn close to stock.

its 14.0 lol

not sure about mph

I thought this would be an issue too, but I think I read somewhere that the speedo on our car auto adjusts. (can't remember where right this second)

It doesn't autoadjust. With the 225/40/18's on my car, the speedo is annoyingly off.

still that's not a bad mph...

I went to Fontana this weekend. 95 temp , track sucked as usual. best time 14.5 @98.54 mph with 2.370 60' times. I did switch maps after 2 passes (had to take my kid to Karate) put about 120 miles on the MSF map and dropped 2 mph vs the stock v.101 map. After about 4 passes on the MSF I tried the stock v.101 and got my 2mph back. I know , I know ...it hasnt had time to set in yet , your LTFT's and all that jazz. The car runs the same 100 miles into a new map or 500 mile into it. It took 2 hours with the hood up and the engine off to come up with 98mph on the following pass. (this top mount is crap when its hot.) My mistake for thinking it was gonna be different than last time. Guys to put a race pipe ( I am assuming it replaces the 2nd cat) do you need to have an aftermarket exaust?..... are there any out there that have the same I.D. of the stock system?

you don't need an aftermarket exhaust for any of the racepipes available

is our stock system 2.5" I.D. or 2.75" I.D. and you say there are race pipes with tose dims? or you feel using a 3 inch (diameter) pipe is ok to mate to a 2.75"?

all I know is people have race pipes installed with the stock exhaust. I think the stocker is 2.5

thanx. I need to get some oomph in this car cuz the maps aint doing squat for me.

this is frustrating