That sounds like bs to me, if the ms cai is so inconsistent I would be developing different fuel trims everytime my ecu is reset with a new map. Fact is they are identicle on every map made for the ms cai. I am aware of what an air straightener does but I still have seen no evidence that the ms cai is an inferior product, which is why I don't have the sri yet. That and you can't find the sri anywhere.

before the AP, my car threw the infamous "too lean" code associated w/ the MSCAI. It threw it once, then never came back. I could never replicate it. My LTFT's have always been good w/ the MSCAI. I would love to see a comparison of some kind between two identically modded cars, the difference being the MSCAI vs the SRI. I'm not neccessarily talking about speed or HP, more LTFT, AF, boost etc.

me too

Hal & Lenny,

Let me know if you guys plan something for Irwindale, I'm about an hour from the track. I've got some base numbers from Irwindale so it would be interesting to compare. I agree about Fontana and avoid it at all costs.

My LTFTs are also good with the mscai maps. Although theoretically, if there were lets say...lean spikes due to the inconsistancy of the mscai, would the LTFTs really adjust that much??? Wouldnt these spikes only happen a fraction of the time and not have a significant effect on long term fuel trims.

I havent gone to Irwindale (other than to watch stock cars go around, which was pretty boring) but PM next time you go and I will go, I dont get out of work til 630 pm out of Buena Park so best eta to that track would be 715pm or so. I am actually still contemplating going tommorrow morning to Fontana, if anyone else was thinking about going let me know, it might sway my decision.

As far as these maps holding more boost longer than the stage 1 v.101 maps I agree and I have shown that they are faster, I just go back to that stock v.101 that for me keeps showing faster traps always (which is why I wanted to go tomorrow to see how it compares to last months runs I had on the v.100 maps)

Lenny, I have what you are looking for. Last Friday night, July 11th at Texas Motor Speedway with AP v101L stg 1+ mscai map and mscbe. Ran 1/4 mile 15 times. Average 60' 2.324 (best 2.253), 1/4 14.5 (best 14.119)
Trap 95 mph (best 97.52 mph). Temp. was in the low 90's.

Uploaded V101 aFT (MSF version) last Monday (driven over 1000 miles).
Tonight (July 18th) I will be going back to Texas Motor Speedway. Like you I am curious...I will post results after midnight or tomorrow A.M.

I get your point. But why would Mazda put them in on the stock piece? I really think it helps. I use to have the MS CAI and do prefer how the car drives with the COBB. 2 cents is all.

whats different about it.

For shits and giggles, can u flash the stock v.101 map (not the stage 1 stock intake) just the stock v.101 after you make enough passes on the MSF versions. Again I have a CA car so the map that runs fastest for me compared to EVERY single stage 1 map released (Cobb, MSF etc etc)up to this point is the stock style v.101 map CA version. At least that will let me know how they differ for you, but as far as stage 1 v.101 vs stage 1 MSF I am already in full agreement that the MSF maps run faster. (what r your mods ?)

Low to mid range punch improved. accelerating from low RPM's in 4-6th gear is smoother. (less hiccups/spitting). I did enjoy the CAI - butt dyno noticed it, but like the SRI better. Plus it's easier to clean/replace filters.

cool, can't wait for your feedback. Man, 15 runs? Even on a good night at my track, I'm lucky to get 3-4. I consider 5 a very good night.

Be sure to post your results!

Thanks for doing this! Definitely awaiting the results ;)

I'm getting ready to head out to the track, and it's 104 outside right now. I make no promises about how many times we'll be able to run tonight. I've already lost my camera person because it's too hot. Ideally I'll be able to compare the various Stage2 maps, and zspeed can do the same with the Stage1 maps. Any other requests for any particular maps?

good luck, but your wasting your time...i give you 1 run before ure ic temps are in the 150 area while ure staging lol

Push-stage it!!

Where is WA do you live? Im down in Vancouver, so PIR is a short drive for me.

If he drives there, his IC temps will be higher than that unless he can keep driving without waiting to stage for long. I was up at 230* on a cool night when I went 13.4 at 104.

Im bringing an iced down water bottle with a spray nozel to hose down the IC to try keep things a little cooler this time.

update your dashhawk cause ure running an old version

If u are running 230 degrees you got problems homie. (on the AP the old firmware was wrong , like loosh said make sure it's updated)

I ve run at Fontana on a 90+ degree weather at 140+ temps on the IC, in contarst when I do my "night testing" I make sure it's always below 105 when launching. (the only thing I look at with the AP when testing for performance is the launch temp, just to make its consistent)

That was with the old firmware, so we'll see how things go tonight.

Going to try some 2nd gear WOT box launches this evening. Clutch dont fail me now!

Im stationed at Ft Lewis but am originally from Kirkland.

Dying to see the results, i believe he trapped 109 on the stock tune on a much colder day

Well, no REAL track times to report but tonight, using the AP, I again tested the "Stg 1 + MSCAI MSF FT" map. My previous best was a 15.1 (first FT map) at barely 98 mph. new best tonight, was 14.81 @ 98.98. that was on my second pass. Again, no timing pull, good a/f's through out and LTFT's are at 2% at idle, 3-4-5 at tip in throttle and 1% at WOT. I didn't get to monitor boost though but it felt like it was pulling. I've never chirpped 4th gear in this car. Hell, even my t3t4 Audi A4 wouldn't chirp 4th (I'm sure w/ quattro it wouldn't even w/ 500 hp). In fact, I don't recall my mustang ever chirpping. Tonight, after 600 or so miles on the MSF FT map, I chirpped 4 without even going all out. I was getting scratch in 4th all night. I haven't installed the WOT box yet. No flat shifting either, just a good gear change. I guess that debunks the "disappearing power on Cabb map" myth. My best 60 ft was a 2.41 so I know my driver skill isn't what has made the difference here. while on the v101 version, I could never get better than a 15.6 and my best mph was maybe a 95. on the v100, my best et was maybe a 15.6 -7 but with a best trap of 94-95. If that isn't proof we're heading in the right direction, I don't know what is. To put it all in perspective, My first time at the track, these were my results w/ MSCAI only (no AP):

r/t .313 1.608 .347
60' 2.349 2.473 2.241
330' 6.444 6.833 6.396
1/8 9.727 10.394 10.033
mph 75.22 71.91 71.36
1000' 12.502 13.278 12.940
1/4 14.857 15.641 15.307
mph 96.60 95.64 96.95

Then I got the AP, and didn't get back to the Track until I had the v101 Stg1 + MSCAI map: best mph was a 97.81, best ET of the night was a 14.889 @ 96.95 with a 2.412 60 ft. That was on a hotter more humid night and I got 5 runs total as opposed to the three the first time. so purely by looking at numbers, one could speculate the v101 maps are worth about 7-10 hp in Stg 1 + MSCAI form. That wasn't the F Beta 101 map either which felt stronger than the final release map that I used that night. i can only speculate now but you know where I'm going with that.

when I ran those REAL track times, I also ran the AP 1/4 mi and that's when I could never muster better than 15.60's at 95 tops. So now with the release of the FT maps, I've gained about 3 mph on the AP consistently. I'm willing to bet the margin on the track will be even greater.

I should reflash back to the v101 release map just to prove the point but I don't want to because I really like the MSF FT map A LOT!!! It's been proven the throttle stay's open all the way until redline. We're making more power now. I think Cobb has been somewhat vindicated here. they certainly don't deserve the hating and bashing they get here. I still want better faster more aggressive maps though. I really hope the Stg 2 + MSCAI + FMIC map is a killer.

I got my best 60 ft time on a 0-60 run tonight, i hit a 2.019. I turned the dsc off and just spun through 1st. I thought that would make it slower and easing into it but apparantly its faster. By the way Im on a different map now.

ahemm...I'm having some serious map envy right now and I don't even know what freaking map you have.

If you are using the DH to log this, and you are spinning through first, how do you think the DH knows how fast you are ACTUALLY going?

Temp. 94 degrees, Did 7 runs first three 1/4 14.6's

4th R/T .170, 60' 2.357, 1/4 14.507 Trap 96.96
5th " .056 " 2.41 " 14.425 " 99.31
6th " .158 " 2.30 " 14.273 " 99.13
7th " .054 " 2.25 " 14.163 " 99.91

I run 1/4 mile to guage improvements, by no means do I consider ms3 a drag car.

Not bad for temps above 90 with just MSCAI, MSCBE and AP w/ aFT msf version.

I love this map especially on highway, speed3 has awesome mid range and top end. Is it time for a downpipe and FMIC or will there be more surprises for stage 1+?

Has anyone run 1/4 mile with Cobb SRI, MSCBE and AP aFT?

Quite disapointing results. My best time was 13.7 at 103. RP, Forge, AP, SRI. 2.2 60'. Previous best was 13.4 with SRI and the Forge at 104mph on the stock tune. It was quite a bit warmer tonight.

When switching to my stock tune, I lost 1 mph and 1/10 on average.

Need more fucking boost!

My Subie DP may be sold as of next week, so the CS DP should be purchased before too long.

I had a blown 05+ Mustang blow my doors off on my way to the track, pushing lots of black smoke (forced induction!)... he was a douche, but the car sure was nice. He wanted to race for slips, then money, I threw up the goose egg, he took the exit and hung his hand out like "whats going on?!" Faggot.

I consistantly trapped higher than my cousins STi swapped bugeye, 2-3mph more and would be realing him in towards the end of the 1/4, but never did beat him.

yea....im a hater.
like i said open your eyes. you can take a shit and gain 1mph int he traps

put about 400 miles on the msf stage 1 map the past 2 days and although I want the AP to be a hit, im not sure this latest map did it for me. The car feels sluggish when rolling in a given gear and then punching it but if you are around 5k and then downshift and wot, it feels great and pulls like Id imagine it should. My fuel trims are spot on, all within +/- 2, so at least my car isnt hating me for driving it.
I wouldnt bother dynoing this map, its clear its not a final product, the lag before 4k when rolling on throttle confirms its not quite there yet.
The only benefit I noticed is that it doesnt fall on its face so hard above 5.5k, but considering Ive learned to not drive the car there, it doesnt make my AP measured times any faster.

so, whens the new alpha map release party? :D Im rootin for ya cobb, but i think some people have a point when they say the tunes are not quite ready for showtime. The car needs its wow factor back.

so only intake and a bpv and you ran a 13.4??? I think I'm sold on a bpv. I didn't think the stocker leaked or had issues holding boost but I don't think anyone w/ just an intake has come that close to a 13.4 @ 104+.

yea I agree. but I think the maps will get better. especially w/ higher octane tunes.

^^ I feel the AP will be able to do anything the other tuners can, so im not worried in that regard. we just need someone to get nasty on the maps, maybe christian needs thicker glasses and a pocket protector. :)

it doesn't seem like Cobb will be the one to get us these "hot" tunes. We're probably going to have to wait for a pro tuner to do it for us or for the street tuner software to come out. the more maps I see, the more time passes and the more other people seem to have disappointing results, this is the conclusion I have as well. The CObb AP is a great product and will eventually let us do whatever we want to the car but the OTS maps seem to have that inherent limitation. they're just OTS maps, not a super aggressive tune.

What keeps throwing me for a loop is that my car seems to get better and better w/ every new map but some people are dynoing the same map I run and LOSING HP/TQ. further proof that every car is different?

I have been beta testing the v102b map for the ms cai for a couple of days. So far the map is much more reponsive than other maps I have used. It seems the torque comes on a bit sooner. The exhaust has a completely different note now, does that mean timing has been changed? In 80 degree weather the car was pulling very hard. The good thing is boost is down from other maps I have used. Why is that good you ask, because Christian is adding more boost to this map before the official release. Hopefully there will be quite a bit more power. I am only holding in the high 15's low 16's with boost right now but the car pulls just as hard if not harder than previous maps where I was holding high 16's-low 17's. Wheelspin has not increased so those wanting more wheelspin will probably still be dissappointed. I should be getting the increased boost map soon, so I hope christian pushes it some more on that map.

Have you guys seen ztuners dyno numbers? It shows the that the 101msf maps pull up to 6 degrees of timing. I guess that is why there is no knock retard with the ap maps and why the maps have not produced much in terms of gains. I guess they are safer though.

I did see that but I'm rather disappointed. the aFT MSF map was supposed to be balls out. I don't want knock but there has to be a middle ground. granted it's a "beta" of sorts. as you can see, I'm more than a little perturbed right now. :grumble:

I agree.

link?

You called it exactly right, and I knew as much going in. I only got in 3 runs. Ambient was between 91 and 94 all night. My first run, ic temps were in the high 140's, and they were in the 150's for the other 2. I ran a 13.4 @ 104, 14.1 @ 99, and 14.0 @ 99.

The only reason it wasn't a complete waste of time is thanks to Corvettes of Dallas. They're letting anyone with a timeslip from last night get 3 pulls on their dyno for $39. So sometime next week I'll head over there and get some numbers.