1/4 mile times on AP or MSF maps

[rodrigo]

What's the deal with not one person showing trap speed changes or 1/4 mile times change on the stage 1 v.101 maps or MSF maps vs their previous times(I realize the MSF havent been out that long but with hundreds of people somebody should have tried something out by now at least on the v.101 maps). I live in southern cal and this year I went twice to Fontana (California Speedway) to do some testing and baselining against the G-tech so I wouldnt need to go back to the track to keep track of performance but in August I am going back again to again validate my findings.

[dread]

hold off for a while I think better maps are coming from what everyone is saying. I haven't gone back to the stock map since I got the AP, so I can't even remember what it feels like.

[rodrigo]

dont get me wrong , I will hold off til the end of time.... not like I have a choice. But I cant imagine that I am the only customer that has verified for himself if these maps have actually made a positive change in the performance of their car. If I heard a bunch of guys saying, yeah went to the track and now I am trapping at 102mph instead of 100mph like I was a month ago or guys saying crap I am trapping 97mph instead of the 99mph like I usually do at least I would have some type of reference to see if I am an isolated case or everyone elses "feel" of the car is just that instead of actual performance gains. Maybe I am too inquisitive but for $700 smackers ..........

[Fobio]

I have lap times available...not exactly what you're looking for but it may help:

AP Stage 1+SF Map Test Lap Times - TorontoMazda3

I might post it in here officially...

[Haltech]

People who seem to own APs dont hit the track. I cant get you track times because i dont own a AP. Otherwise, i would try these myself and show any gains, losses or neutral power gains.

[Lymerock]

not all AP owners have a track remotely close to them too

[rodrigo]

Find it weird that everyone went with the Dashhawk which like Haltech said I myself dont believe is very accurate in acceleration numbers , which is why I went with a device that has no connection to the car other than for power, and I have had great accuracy and success in the past. My decision is basically do I give up on the ms CAI and bite the bullet on the Cobb intake and maybe still I find that the maps have no performance increase (at least for drag racing) or do I wait until....... other guys confirm with my same setup that I am just an isolated incident.

[Haltech]

Originally Posted by lenny127 Find it weird that everyone went with the Dashhawk which like Haltech said I myself dont believe is very accurate in acceleration numbers , which is why I went with a device that has no connection to the car other than for power, and I have had great accuracy and success in the past. My decision is basically do I give up on the ms CAI and bite the bullet on the Cobb intake and maybe still I find that the maps have no performance increase (at least for drag racing) or do I wait until....... other guys confirm with my same setup that I am just an isolated incident.

Well there are probably 20 people around other boards who would buy that mscai from you. The MSCAI has caused its problems with hotter tunes, that isn't a secret. The question is, how far can we push a persons car using one until we realize its too dangerous. The decision is solely yours. If you want to keep the CAI style, you can go with the CPE pipe as it too straightens the incoming air like the SRI does. Or you can swag it out with mscai or dish out the money and go with a SRI. Ultimately, it depends on your patience and what you want out of the car.

[Laloosh]

just curious, what are nuetral gains?

[Haltech]

Originally Posted by Laloosh just curious, what are nuetral gains?

No power gained, no power lost = map didnt work.

[digitaljedi]

Originally Posted by Haltech People who seem to own APs dont hit the track. I cant get you track times because i dont own a AP. Otherwise, i would try these myself and show any gains, losses or neutral power gains.

what track do u go to? we all know it doesnt add power, i dont see the issue. at least the first ap map didnt do anything, "feel" is a placebo thing. i would be interested in trap info though, best judge of a cars power.

[Laloosh]

like stated, ap owners dont go to the track....
the two that i remember off the top of my head were sls and i think he didnt really gain any trap, maybe 1.x mph and the other one lost trap

[Haltech]

Originally Posted by digitaljedi what track do u go to? we all know it doesnt add power, i dont see the issue. at least the first ap map didnt do anything, "feel" is a placebo thing. i would be interested in trap info though, best judge of a cars power.

i try to steer clear of Ca Speedway at all costs. I usually meet up with a large domestic crowd who rents out Bakersfield raceway 7 times a year. For $125, we have about 175 cars with unlimited runs, lines and less "tech" enforcement if you catch my drift. So, i would head up there since they have that beautiful 600 ft concrete launch pad.

For quick testing, i would just goto Irwindales's 1/8th mile on thur nights. Its not the best way to measure gains, but its acceptable since that track is very well prepped and has better temps than fontana any day of the week.

If i get there when they open, i could easily get in 11 runs before it gets really crowded. so from 3-6, 11 slips and start the excel spreadsheet for data acquisition.

[rodrigo]

yeah I thought about going to Irwindale but these cars blow on the eighth, but Fontana does suck at both prep and temps (my car was super inconsistent when it got to 90 degree temps) that is the main reason I do most of my cough cough ..."testing" out in East Irvine late at night , no altitude and cold!!!!!

[rodrigo]

Originally Posted by digitaljedi what track do u go to? we all know it doesnt add power, i dont see the issue. at least the first ap map didnt do anything, "feel" is a placebo thing. i would be interested in trap info though, best judge of a cars power.

So if we all know it doesnt add power why are there people running any of the maps? I would love to "feel" more power/ driveability but not at the expense of the simple reality that my car is slower now if I run the maps. I cant believe anyone here bought the AP without thinking that priority #1 was for the car to be faster...... I could be wrong though.

[Haltech]

Originally Posted by lenny127 yeah I thought about going to Irwindale but these cars blow on the eighth, but Fontana does suck at both prep and temps (my car was super inconsistent when it got to 90 degree temps) that is the main reason I do most of my cough cough ..."testing" out in East Irvine late at night , no altitude and cold!!!!!

welp we could always hook up and see if we can get down there by the old el toro air base for testing

[SLS MS3]

I went to the track with the 1.00 map, and I had a positive 1-2mph trap speed difference compared to stock ECU. I haven't been lately because I don't like hitting the track when the temp is 100+ outside. IMO, that's just too fucking hot to be sitting in the staging lanes burning up. But "for the good of the community" I'll go tomorrow and see how the MSF FT map does.

[rodrigo]

Originally Posted by Haltech welp we could always hook up and see if we can get down there by the old el toro air base for testing

I got a spot that I have been using (at least 40 times) in the course of a year with no "close calls" . Wont say it over the internet for fear that our friend in white and blue might shut down the "track"

[Haltech]

Originally Posted by lenny127 I got a spot that I have been using (at least 40 times) in the course of a year with no "close calls" . Wont say it over the internet for fear that our friend in white and blue might shut down the "track"

PM me the location...

[rodrigo]

Originally Posted by SLS MS3 I went to the track with the 1.00 map, and I had a positive 1-2mph trap speed difference compared to stock ECU. I haven't been lately because I don't like hitting the track when the temp is 100+ outside. IMO, that's just too fucking hot to be sitting in the staging lanes burning up. But "for the good of the community" I'll go tomorrow and see how the MSF FT map does.

Thats awesome that you would test for the sake of the community, but on my end I have to compare apples to apples and since I am running a ms CAI only I have to compare myself to others in that league , if you know what I mean. (for all I know the Ap is wonderful on stage 2...who knows)

[digitaljedi]

Originally Posted by Haltech i try to steer clear of Ca Speedway at all costs. I usually meet up with a large domestic crowd who rents out Bakersfield raceway 7 times a year. For $125, we have about 175 cars with unlimited runs, lines and less "tech" enforcement if you catch my drift. So, i would head up there since they have that beautiful 600 ft concrete launch pad. For quick testing, i would just goto Irwindales's 1/8th mile on thur nights. Its not the best way to measure gains, but its acceptable since that track is very well prepped and has better temps than fontana any day of the week. If i get there when they open, i could easily get in 11 runs before it gets really crowded. so from 3-6, 11 slips and start the excel spreadsheet for data acquisition.

i was under the impression that fontana is rarely open for the 1/4 mile.

[Haltech]

Originally Posted by digitaljedi i was under the impression that fontana is rarely open for the 1/4 mile.

Pretty much, i posted their schedule in the drag race section. The whole purpose of them having that strip was to relieve the street racing in the IE. They have failed miserably to provide the means to curb it. When they first opened, they were running track days, weekly.

[rodrigo]

July 19th, August 16th,November1st and 2nd, December 6th and 7th..... they do add dates every now and again. I went a month ago on a Saturday that hadnt been officially scheduled until 2 weeks before but by luck I caught it, only about 50 of us showed up and I myself had 27 passes from 9am to 430pm, a guy in a s2000 honda had about 40 (that of course contributed to some inconsistent times)

[Haltech]

i think ill go in nov.. nice and cool.

[rodrigo]

Definitely let me know on that one so we can meet up, last month when I went I met up with a kid running just a cobb sri and catback and while I was killing him on the 330' by the time the 1000' came he was always blowing by me and consistently trapped 2 mph higher than myself (I was running stage 1 v.100 then) that weekend is when I started testing the Stock maps against the v.100 and a week later the stage 1 v.101's vs the stock v.101 and well... the rest is history

[Haltech]

I hear ya, ill let you know and maybe we can get a group of guys to head over there and race.

[rodrigo]

perfect! anyone else live in so-cal on this forum?

[4thStroke]

I went to the track with the 1.00 map, and I had a positive 1-2mph trap speed difference compared to stock ECU.

Strange, with the V100 map, I was .4 slower and lost 4mph.

Im going to try to make it to the track tomorrow night. I was going to go last weekend, but they had a different event going on.

[Death-From-A-Mile]

I will be going on August 9th at PIR. I believe there will be a Unichip car running that day also.

[dread]

I have been waiting for someone to swith to the sri to see if it made a difference. However, the power increase for the ms cai and sri maps (as per the map notes on cobb's website) is the same. I wonder if those numbers are arcurate. Looking forward to seeing some trap times.

[rodrigo]

I think what Haltech hinted at is right, the MS CAI when pushed to higher limits (at least in the direction Cobb is going) might end up proving to be the thing that keeps us from seeing results. Christian told me that he believed the MS CAI was a less than optimal piece of hardware for tuning this ECU. Now if that is because from a business point of view they will put more effort on their (COBB INTAKE) hardware/software tunes or because maybe the MS CAI really is a piece of crap who knows? I would just hate to get the Cobb intake and realize that it gives me no advantage over the ms CAI , whether its running stock v.101 or stage 1 or MSF or whatever. Thats why I want others to get involved and give REAL feedback not just butt impressions.

[94jedi]

I'm not liking what I'm reading about the MSCAI. I'm more of a drag guy than anything else so I'm looking for more aggressive tunes. If the MSCAI is going to be a hindrance, I'll pack it up and ship it to someone on 247. It makes sense though. Mazda never intended it to be a foundation piece. It's the MSCAI and the MScatback and that's it in terms of mods.

for the record, I gained about ~1-2 mph in the qm and that was without shifting into 5th. I think I would have gained another 1 or 2 mph. This was on the v101 stg 1+ MSCAI map.

[dread]

I would like to know exactly what about the ms cai prevents more agressive tunes.

[94jedi]

seems to be the lack of air straightener. I guess the ill effects of that get amplified with hotter tunes where what the maf sees becomes even more important. I'm just speculating but it seems like that's the case.

[brecker]

Originally Posted by dread I would like to know exactly what about the ms cai prevents more agressive tunes.

The whole idea of turbulent air flow across the MAF. That why Mazda, COBB, and CP-E put in air flow straighteners. I remember when someone brought this up way back, when the CP-E CAI was released - big controversy! But it was enough to make me sell mine.

[ztuner]

I can tell you this - with the new map i am running higher boost for a longer duration in the rpm range, vitually zero knock retard and it pulls stronger than stock. I forgot to log timing. Will do that today .

Harry

[shucky]

Harry, so your now using the stage 1+ SRI full throttle map from this site? Cause if I remember, you said the standard stage 1 yielded better results than the standard stage1+SRI map (non full throttle). Have you had a chance to dyno the full throttle map? thanks

[94jedi]

Originally Posted by ztuner I can tell you this - with the new map i am running higher boost for a longer duration in the rpm range, vitually zero knock retard and it pulls stronger than stock. I forgot to log timing. Will do that today . Harry

well, after clicking the links in your sig, I must say that I respect your opinion lol. That said, it seems to fall in line with what other have said. The MSF map holds boost longer, boosts a hair higher and on my car has ZERO knock. I get no timing pull whatsoever.

Also, using the AP's 1/4 timer, I was able to get a 15.1 with the MSF FT map where as my previous best, even on the v101 maps was a 15.6. My previous best et was never better than 96 mph with the v101 Stg1 + MSCAI map but with the MSF FT version, i got a high 98. If you ask me, that's an HP gain attributable to a more powerful map.

I'll be hitting the strip on the 23rd of july and this time I'll shift into 5th. Hopefully I can shut the pundits up.

[dread]

I know the ms cai lacks an air straightener, but why does that prevent hot tunes. Is boost inconsistent does it get to lean. All christian needs to do is add more fuel to compensate. I am guessing it is too inconsistent or the fuel pump gets maxed out when he asked for more power.

[SLS MS3]

Without the air straighteners, the airflow is more turbulent and the MAF doesn't neccessarily read the correct amount of air coming through the intake. Since the stock tune is so rich to begin with, there's enough leeway to get away with it. With a hotter tune, the margin for error goes down and it's more important that the MAF is reading correctly.