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 Old 11-28-2008, 10:31 PM   #1
 
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Default AP users w/upgraded fuel pumps...

I have read a lot of posts where ppl are stating their fuel pumps are not up to par but I have yet to see the proof that an upgraded pump has been the remedy. I have noticed my fuel pressure has displaayed the same pressures pre and post ap.
Anyone with an upgraded pump have before and after data logs ?
I don't want to spend the coin for a upgraded pump and have the same results.

Thanks
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 Old 11-28-2008, 10:56 PM   #2
 
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does your fuel pressure drop below 1000 during a wot run?
people with bad pumps are seeing 550-600 at times, very low

the fuel pump is cam driven, so the AP should have no effect on the pressure made by the pump itself
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 Old 11-28-2008, 11:07 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by Lymerock View Post
does your fuel pressure drop below 1000 during a wot run?
people with bad pumps are seeing 550-600 at times, very low

the fuel pump is cam driven, so the AP should have no effect on the pressure made by the pump itself
You didnt answer the question!

To answer the question you need to post logs of stock FP losing pressure and then logs under same mods/conditions/AP map with upgraded pump/internals.

Would be interesting seeing diff. between whole pump and different internals too.

I dont wish to be an asshole.

But if you dont answer the question..........
I'll call a BS post count post.
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 Old 11-28-2008, 11:58 PM   #4
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stock internals



upgraded




happy? was it really that hard to believe? PG just sold over 102 internal kits i dont think its not solving the problem.
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 Old 11-29-2008, 07:12 AM   #5
 
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The before and after looks like the exact same screen shot. Did you grab the wrong one?
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 Old 11-29-2008, 07:40 AM   #6
 
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Originally Posted by FreeFlyFreak View Post
You didnt answer the question!

To answer the question you need to post logs of stock FP losing pressure and then logs under same mods/conditions/AP map with upgraded pump/internals.

Would be interesting seeing diff. between whole pump and different internals too.

I dont wish to be an asshole.

But if you dont answer the question..........
I'll call a BS post count post.

I made a comment that the AP wont effect FP which if you read in betwen the lines, he was insinuating. He said, I dont see a difference in FP before the AP and now after the AP, my response was basically, you wont!
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 Old 11-29-2008, 08:23 AM   #7
 
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if you want logs, i'll go out and do them today and prove that my upgraded fuel pump resolved the pressure drop.

if your fuel pressure is the same pre and post AP then apparently you don't need a fuel pump if its staying at high levels.
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 Old 11-29-2008, 08:32 AM   #8
 
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won't the high flow pumps/internals give you a higher PSI anyways regardless if it was dropping in the first place?
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 Old 11-29-2008, 08:33 AM   #9
 
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yeah i think you will notice they are up over the 1700psi level when WOT most of the time. I'll get a log today to show the differences.
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 Old 11-29-2008, 09:06 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by pbblaster View Post
The before and after looks like the exact same screen shot. Did you grab the wrong one?

lol no that was the purpose. all the CDFP upgrade does is flatten out the FP line like i drew in. its not rocket science. and its been tested and approved.
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 Old 11-29-2008, 09:35 AM   #11
 
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if you are only getting 1700 psi in your upgraded pump, i dont think its doing the job. Most upgraded pump logs I've seen are above 1800 psi, and my CPE was hovering bewteen 1900-2050 on every WOT pull.
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 Old 11-29-2008, 11:19 AM   #12
 
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here are pre and post FP logs. i hope you can tell which is which.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg stage2fuel2.JPG (158.0 KB, 77 views)
File Type: jpg 2nd_upgradedFP.JPG (165.9 KB, 78 views)
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 Old 11-29-2008, 12:17 PM   #13
 
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Thanks for the replies. Just to clarify....I was asking to see before and after identical runs to see the differences from and upgraded pump vs the stocker.
In the logs above looks like the stock pump was definitely defective.
Isn't it normal for the pump to be less than 1500-1700 when not at WOT?
I've seen quite a few logs that look no where near the bad one above and ppl are stating the poster needed an upgraded pump.
I also have not read many posts where ppl set ups were failing because their stock pump failed.
I dunno...I just don't see the justification.
Anyone else have before and after logs?
bova80
yeah i think you will notice they are up over the 1700psi level when WOT most of the time.
This is what I am seeing in my set up. I have never dipped below ~ 1400-1700 while WOT.
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 Old 11-29-2008, 12:17 PM   #14
 
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damn, thats extremely noticable Bova, me likey!
I have my pump internals on my desk here, so hopefully I will see similar results when i get off my ass and pop em in tomorrow.
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 Old 11-29-2008, 12:26 PM   #15
 
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Originally Posted by Lymerock View Post
damn, thats extremely noticable Bova, me likey!
I have my pump internals on my desk here, so hopefully I will see similar results when i get off my ass and pop em in tomorrow.
+1...guess I'll go ahead and put this on the list just to be safe.
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 Old 11-29-2008, 02:40 PM   #16
 
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of course while cruising your fuel pressure isn't giong to be pegged. the whole point of upgraded the fuel pump is so it doesn't drop off when you are WOT which is as you can see mine did. i doubt my stock pump was defective cause it provided more than enough fuel before i went downpipe and ets tmic. also cobb has said it has appeared that speed3's cdfp hold up better than the speed6's with modifying, not sure why.
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 Old 11-29-2008, 03:43 PM   #17
 
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Christian had to stop tuning for some of the beta testers until they get upgraded pumps.
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 Old 11-29-2008, 04:40 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by StreetUnitMark View Post
if you are only getting 1700 psi in your upgraded pump, i dont think its doing the job. Most upgraded pump logs I've seen are above 1800 psi, and my CPE was hovering bewteen 1900-2050 on every WOT pull.
well the psi is only going to be as high as the duty cycle commands. if the ECU doesent need 2000PSI then its never going to hit that. it completely Dependant on your vehicles demand. the important thing is that no where in the powerband are you loosing pressure and that the pump can accommodate the boost pressure at peak torque.
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 Old 12-01-2008, 10:40 AM   #19
 
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As soon as I get my pump & get it installed, I will post an "after" log. You can see the "before" log here:

http://www.mazdaspeedforums.org/foru...tml#post109837
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 Old 12-01-2008, 04:08 PM   #20
 
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Originally Posted by MS6 Alan View Post
Christian had to stop tuning for some of the beta testers until they get upgraded pumps.
I was one of these beta testers. my FPDI would drop to 800 psi around 4500 psi. I have a 2008.5 speed. After upgrading with a CPE pump, the lean spot mid rpm-2900 to 3500 is gone (was 1100-1300 and AFR would spike a little lean now its 1500-1600 with no lean spike) and the WOT FPDI does not drop below 1750-1900 from 3500-7000.

As for the duty cycle commands, the pump is mechanical so there is only so much that retarding the intake cam timing can do to reduce fuel pressure. It is controlled via Variable cam timing and phasing AND engine RPM.

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 Old 12-01-2008, 09:53 PM   #21
 
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Just wondering, what are your mods and what beta map were you running?

Originally Posted by wassup61 View Post
I was one of these beta testers. my FPDI would drop to 800 psi around 4500 psi. I have a 2008.5 speed. After upgrading with a CPE pump, the lean spot mid rpm-2900 to 3500 is gone (was 1100-1300 and AFR would spike a little lean now its 1500-1600 with no lean spike) and the WOT FPDI does not drop below 1750-1900 from 3500-7000.

As for the duty cycle commands, the pump is mechanical so there is only so much that retarding the intake cam timing can do to reduce fuel pressure. It is controlled via Variable cam timing and phasing AND engine RPM.

Jeff
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 Old 12-02-2008, 11:56 AM   #22
 
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Originally Posted by YammerR1 View Post
Just wondering, what are your mods and what beta map were you running?
Fully bolted minus exhaust manifold. 103i S2+ MSCAI2 FMIC 91. Best running map yet.
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 Old 12-03-2008, 08:22 AM   #23
 
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Fuel pump is in, but I am still seeing some KR. I am gonna give it some miles, then do more logging.

http://www.mazdaspeedforums.org/foru...tml#post116588
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 Old 12-03-2008, 03:30 PM   #24
 
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Originally Posted by badams118 View Post
Fuel pump is in, but I am still seeing some KR. I am gonna give it some miles, then do more logging.

http://www.mazdaspeedforums.org/foru...tml#post116588

Did you check all of your hoses especially ones connecting to turbo inlet/inlet to turbine housing?
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 Old 12-03-2008, 03:32 PM   #25
 
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Yup, twice already. First, before I bought the pump, then again in the process of installing the pump. If I got it any tighter, I would strip it.

You are probably right about the unmetered air suspicion, though. It is the only thing that makes sense right now. As boost rises, KR increases as well. I wish I could find the damn leak.

One thing that bothers me, however. Why isn't it throwing my A/F ratio off?
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 Old 12-04-2008, 10:53 AM   #26
 
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Originally Posted by wassup61 View Post
As for the duty cycle commands, the pump is mechanical so there is only so much that retarding the intake cam timing can do to reduce fuel pressure. It is controlled via Variable cam timing and phasing AND engine RPM.

Jeff
The mechanical pump also has an electronic solenoid that can and does control fuel pressure. This is the same part that Mazda is replacing for the fuel pump TSB as the solenoid can have lazy response resulting in low fuel pressures.

Retarding the can timing does not affect the fuel pressure. Every cam rotation results in 3 pump cycles, it does not matter if the cycles are retarded by 5 deg.
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 Old 12-04-2008, 12:39 PM   #27
 
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Originally Posted by Boother View Post
The mechanical pump also has an electronic solenoid that can and does control fuel pressure. This is the same part that Mazda is replacing for the fuel pump TSB as the solenoid can have lazy response resulting in low fuel pressures.

Retarding the can timing does not affect the fuel pressure. Every cam rotation results in 3 pump cycles, it does not matter if the cycles are retarded by 5 deg.
Hmmm...where exactly is this solenoid located?
This sounds like an issue that's probably suffered by many according the many dh logs I've seen. Looks like it occurs right after a shift.
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 Old 12-04-2008, 12:44 PM   #28
 
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i got the upgraded solenoid and still had fuel pressure drop so don't think that will always be the solution. the solenoid sits on top of the pump.
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 Old 12-06-2008, 02:13 PM   #29
 
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Originally Posted by Speed'n3 View Post
Hmmm...where exactly is this solenoid located?
This sounds like an issue that's probably suffered by many according the many dh logs I've seen. Looks like it occurs right after a shift.
Solenoid is on the top of the CDFP. If you look at the pump itslef the solenoid actuator needle has an electrical connector that interfaces with it.
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 Old 12-08-2008, 10:17 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by Speed'n3 View Post
Thanks for the replies. Just to clarify....I was asking to see before and after identical runs to see the differences from and upgraded pump vs the stocker.
In the logs above looks like the stock pump was definitely defective.
Isn't it normal for the pump to be less than 1500-1700 when not at WOT?
I've seen quite a few logs that look no where near the bad one above and ppl are stating the poster needed an upgraded pump.
I also have not read many posts where ppl set ups were failing because their stock pump failed.
I dunno...I just don't see the justification.
Anyone else have before and after logs?
bova80
This is what I am seeing in my set up. I have never dipped below ~ 1400-1700 while WOT.
If you have never dipped below 1400PSI then you don't need a FP. It's just that simple. A lot of people pushed a LOT of early days issues off on the FP and people just wont let it go. I had the faulty FP and got the TSB from Mazda done and they replaced my FP. Sense then I have added a ton of mods and the Cobb AP and my FP is just fine. I don't get cut or stutter. My pressure is between 1500-1700 on the Mazda FP. I have never had it drop below 1400 after I got it replaced.

If your pressure does not ever drop below 1400, then you are fine. A bad fuel pump will drop to like 900psi and that's what mine use to do on WOT runs and cause stutter big time.
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 Old 12-08-2008, 07:14 PM   #31
 
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Originally Posted by Bravnik View Post
If you have never dipped below 1400PSI then you don't need a FP. It's just that simple. A lot of people pushed a LOT of early days issues off on the FP and people just wont let it go. I had the faulty FP and got the TSB from Mazda done and they replaced my FP. Sense then I have added a ton of mods and the Cobb AP and my FP is just fine. I don't get cut or stutter. My pressure is between 1500-1700 on the Mazda FP. I have never had it drop below 1400 after I got it replaced.

If your pressure does not ever drop below 1400, then you are fine. A bad fuel pump will drop to like 900psi and that's what mine use to do on WOT runs and cause stutter big time.
Thanks for the reply.
And yes..I have seen drops below 900psi.
Got my internals today so hopefully this will be a thing of the past.
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