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 Old 07-05-2018, 01:27 PM   #1
 
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Default My 08' rebuild thread

Hey everyone, pretty new to the forum and I just recently bought an 08 speed 3, body is in good shape and the motor just needs to be rebuilt and trans needs to be serviced so here we go! Bought the car for $3000 off of a dealer that didn't know what he had so I got a good deal and the engine isn't blown but it needs enough work to the point where a rebuild is something I can justify. Since I bought it this past weekend I've got the Manifold-> secondary cat delete pipe off. Entire front crash protection including rad and condenser came off and next project will be pulling the accessories, cam cover, oil pan, timing cover and assessing the condition of the chain, cams, crank, rods, and pistons. At that point I'll start buying parts to rebuild and then get underway! Here's a few pics from Saturday to today


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 Old 07-05-2018, 01:53 PM   #2
 
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More than anything else, I wanna know what apartment complex isn't gonna evict you for rebuilding an engine in the parking lot.
Also welcome, and good luck.
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 Old 07-05-2018, 01:59 PM   #3
 
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Originally Posted by Bingo View Post
More than anything else, I wanna know what apartment complex isn't gonna evict you for rebuilding an engine in the parking lot.
Also welcome, and good luck.


I talked with all my neighbors and they're all cool with it and our property manager is very relaxed with it, as long as I keep it covered and not too much of an eye sore


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 Old 07-06-2018, 12:37 PM   #4
 
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Well today was more tear down to get further into the motor, so far got the intake, fuel rail, p/s pump, AC compressor, most hoses, wiring harness and cam cover off to take a look at the top end and it looks pretty good so far, just need to get the crank bolt off, jack the motor up to pull the mount and chain cover off to look at how that looks. Tomorrow will most likely be pull the timing chain, cams, head, and look at the pistons for any damage. Also shot it with some degreaser and found what looks to be a high performance motor mount? Not sure but more to come!



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 Old 07-06-2018, 01:47 PM   #5
 
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yes JBR passenger mount, you probably have the RMM behind the trans too.

You will really rebuild that engine at the parking lot, outside with the engine block in the car ?

being there, check turbo shaft play, with the oil comming off of it, i wouldn't be surprise that it is shot.

And make sure you read the how to VVT thread...
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 Old 07-06-2018, 06:06 PM   #6
 
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Originally Posted by Jeff23spl View Post
yes JBR passenger mount, you probably have the RMM behind the trans too.

You will really rebuild that engine at the parking lot, outside with the engine block in the car ?

being there, check turbo shaft play, with the oil comming off of it, i wouldn't be surprise that it is shot.

And make sure you read the how to VVT thread...


It's more or less going to be putting new gaskets and resealing the motor and then pulling the trans and doing a clutch. I say "rebuild thread" but from the condition it was in, it's basically a "rebuild back to running condition."

Checked the turbo, lots of shaft play, ordered a chinacharger direct replacement so that'll be in soon along with my main seals and soon enough I'll get the head gasket going so I can start cleaning everything up and getting it back together


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 Old 07-06-2018, 09:07 PM   #7
 
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There are a few things I can tell you from looking at those pictures:

1. Unless you made all those paint marks, that motor has been opened up no less than twice before.
2. Original PMM blew up. That's the brown crud all over the passenger side of the heat shield.
3. VVT looks new. Likely one of the times the motor was opened was to replace it.
4. OEM wiring harness was tapped, most likely for a meth controller.
5. Someone at least tried to take care of it, so you might have gotten a pretty good deal there, but that's all assuming they didn't dump it because the bottom end was damaged.

Take a look inside your oil cap hole and see if there's a baffle. If there is, that's a Gen2 upgraded valve cover (good thing). Also, take a look at your valves. If they're clean, it was either running methanol or the valves were replaced, which would explain the paint marks on the cap bolts. If the valves are dirty, it's probably a good idea to clean your valves while you have it apart. Direct Injected engines get super dirty valves quickly. I recommend cleaning them every 50,000 miles if you're not running meth. Good luck!
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 Old 07-07-2018, 08:59 AM   #8
 
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Originally Posted by Solarsurge View Post
There are a few things I can tell you from looking at those pictures:

1. Unless you made all those paint marks, that motor has been opened up no less than twice before.
2. Original PMM blew up. That's the brown crud all over the passenger side of the heat shield.
3. VVT looks new. Likely one of the times the motor was opened was to replace it.
4. OEM wiring harness was tapped, most likely for a meth controller.
5. Someone at least tried to take care of it, so you might have gotten a pretty good deal there, but that's all assuming they didn't dump it because the bottom end was damaged.

Take a look inside your oil cap hole and see if there's a baffle. If there is, that's a Gen2 upgraded valve cover (good thing). Also, take a look at your valves. If they're clean, it was either running methanol or the valves were replaced, which would explain the paint marks on the cap bolts. If the valves are dirty, it's probably a good idea to clean your valves while you have it apart. Direct Injected engines get super dirty valves quickly. I recommend cleaning them every 50,000 miles if you're not running meth. Good luck!


Pretty observant there! I appreciate your input because I wouldn't have known much of that until I would have gone searching through this forum. Looked at the valves and they're dirty so will most certainly be cleaning them, I'll take a look at the cam cover to see about a baffle. I do know that this motor has been opened twice and the timing chain was done in the last 30k Miles so that's good. Interesting how the head gasket went out unless the motor ran really hot or the gasket was defective. Oh well! At least I know the motor is in good shape


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how do you know the wiring harness was happened, I'm pretty good with cars and I didn't really notice anywhere that the wiring harness was tapped but it may have been one of those things I glossed over


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 Old 07-07-2018, 09:50 AM   #9
 
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Looks like fun! It blows my mind the property manager allows you to do this haha. I also can't tell anywhere the harness has been tapped or hacked... But I've never really tore into my car
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 Old 07-07-2018, 12:26 PM   #10
 
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These motors are extremely prone to detonation if they are beat on under 3k RPM stock or are modded without upgraded HPFP internals. I’ve seen roasted valves, Swiss cheesed pistons, broken rods, etc. That pressure has to go somewhere. The head gasket would be my preferred failure, since it’s probably the cheapest thing to replace if you’re mechanically inclined. Make sure you replace the head bolts though.
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 Old 07-08-2018, 09:06 AM   #11
 
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That is a gen 1 not a gen 2 valve cover. True they have a baffle but you can tell by the oil cap/fill hole. Gen 2 are about 2 inches tall. That 1 is flush. The cap is also different. Gen 2 is a quarter(maybe half?) turn cap and the gen 1 screws in
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 Old 07-09-2018, 06:17 AM   #12
 
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Maybe it started with a blown VVT/timing and some bent valves but the garage just repaired the head and re-used the old head bolts or, it was warped and he didn't get it machined...
When you have the timing tool, you don't need those timing marks. i won't be surprise if it turns out, the old friction washers was re-used too. Maybe it is the reason of opening it again...
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 Old 07-09-2018, 03:39 PM   #13
 
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Made good progress today on the car, turns out it was a failed headgasket on cylinder 2 so it has a spot of oil in it and around it. Cleaned all that up and shot the head with some parts cleaner before I brought it inside and started working on the valves seals, hoping to get that done tomorrow and then I can slowly start putting everything back together. Motor looks to be in great shape, Pistons are somewhat clean and aren't peppered or Swiss cheese like, only concern is the junk in the water jacket but I'll get that sorted out with vinegar once the car is back together and running.

So far so good except this freakin thing is sucking my wallet dry! Good think I got it for cheap or I'd be kinda pissed. Just a quick question for any gurus out there, how difficult is it to set the timing on these motors without the timing tools? I have no problem buying them, just wanted to know if anyone's done it, and maybe if anyone would be willing to lend me theirs? I'll pay for shipping both ways if anyone would be up for that? If so just PM me, if not I'll just buy one

Anyway, I'm pumped that this is as far as I need to tear this motor down, should get the turbo in pretty soon and should be able to get this baby back together and then the transmission and rear main are next on the list! More to come!




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 Old 07-09-2018, 05:08 PM   #14
 
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I think the most critical part of the timing set is the crank pin. It ensures the crank is at the correct spot to locate the CAS. You could get lucky aligning the cams with a straight edge or make your own plate. If the crank and cam angle sensors are off sync by more than a few degrees, it won't start.
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 Old 07-10-2018, 01:10 PM   #15
 
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-You didn't mention anywhere that you got the head resurfaced or at least checked with the block?
-You plan to try the timing without the timing tool.
Are you gonna re-use the old head and crank bolt with old friction washers ?

This would be the perfect recipe to do it one more time soon....
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 Old 07-10-2018, 01:22 PM   #16
 
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Originally Posted by Jeff23spl View Post
-You didn't mention anywhere that you got the head resurfaced or at least checked with the block?
-You plan to try the timing without the timing tool.
Are you gonna re-use the old head and crank bolt with old friction washers ?

This would be the perfect recipe to do it one more time soon....


Got new friction washers, ordered timing tool, checked the block and the head with a straight edge tool I picked up from one of my auto tech classes in high school. This is a do it once job, I was just inquiring if anyone had timed this motor without the timing tools, I have a lot more work to do before I start playing with timing or putting all of this back together


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 Old 07-10-2018, 02:18 PM   #17
 
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glad to hear that you plan to do it right but the way you started may not look like it.

Usually when you blow a head gasket it is rare that the head is still straight but it isn't very common either that this happen with a speed engine. Good chances that this have something to do with with the previous job done...

For the timing, unless you mark it and believe the last job was done perfectly and you put it back at the exact place, there is no oem marks or reference to align everything without the tool. In your case, i would get the tool.

Looking at your piston, i would google the part number stamped on them, it may look like wiseco but i may be wrong. You may also learn if it is std or oversize.
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 Old 07-10-2018, 03:15 PM   #18
 
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Originally Posted by Jeff23spl View Post
glad to hear that you plan to do it right but the way you started may not look like it.

Usually when you blow a head gasket it is rare that the head is still straight but it isn't very common either that this happen with a speed engine. Good chances that this have something to do with with the previous job done...

For the timing, unless you mark it and believe the last job was done perfectly and you put it back at the exact place, there is no oem marks or reference to align everything without the tool. In your case, i would get the tool.

Looking at your piston, i would google the part number stamped on them, it may look like wiseco but i may be wrong. You may also learn if it is std or oversize.


The more I look into things and the further I've gotten on the head, it looks as though the head gasket wasn't blown. One of the intake valve seals was pretty bad and looks as though that's where the leak was coming from, not certain but it seems that way. As far as everything else goes I never thought to look into the part numbers on the Pistons, are they not the factory set? I wouldn't be surprised seeing how clean this motor is other than it being a bit oily and greasy. It's incredibly interesting to pull this motor apart and see all of these weird things as if it had been recently rebuilt, yet have weird problems like a valve seal go bad. Oh well. Probably will just bite the bullet and continue draining my wallet to make sure I get this thing done correctly


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 Old 07-11-2018, 06:40 AM   #19
 
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The pistons are very clean and the block have been paint black without the head, we can think it has been done outside of the car in a motor rack and the reason of doing this is usually to rebuild or install forged internals. So it could be interesting to figure out what you got.
The picture isn't close enough to clearly see pistons but i don't think my first gen oem pistons was marked. I brushed the top to clean them so maybe i brushed the numbers away too? Second gen and many replacement piston got a dish to help direct injection but not the wiseco so i checked web pictures and it seem to have printed number on them like this.....

At this point, it is'n hard to remove the pan to clean it and check if the rods are oem and the oil jet are fine
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 Old 07-11-2018, 08:29 AM   #20
 
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Ha, wow. I didn't catch that the block was black.
I assumed OEM Gen1 pistons, but you're right. Wiseco pistons look like that too, BUT that doesn't appear to be the correct Wiseco part number. And I'm guessing the last digits of -75 indicate the stock size of 87.5mm
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 Old 07-11-2018, 09:41 AM   #21
 
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I'll take my calipers today and measure to see if its stock sized pistons, hopefully with any luck I'll pull the pan off this thing and it'll have forged rods and I'll have solidarity in that this car was someone's labor of love that I got for a song and a dance


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 Old 07-11-2018, 06:18 PM   #22
 
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Those are not the original OEM pistons. Pretty sure I was able to track down who makes them. Looks like an OEM replacement hyperutectic cast piston.

Also, worth mentioning that it appears there is a separate part number for "Turbo" applications. They might actually be 2.3L Mazda 3 pistons. That'd be a pretty good reason to ditch the car.
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 Old 07-11-2018, 09:19 PM   #23
 
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Good find detective Surge.
According to your attachment, they are Turbo pistons. But 0.75mm overbore...ugh!
Edit: nevermind. I see the different part number now.

OP, looks like your next option is to go full racecar 90mm pistons.
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 Old 07-11-2018, 09:20 PM   #24
 
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Originally Posted by Fstrnyou View Post
Good find detective Surge.
According to your attachment, they are Turbo pistons. But 0.75mm overbore...ugh!

OP, looks like your next option is to go full racecar 90mm pistons.

I’m not so sure about that. There are two different pistons in two different images and the one that is NOT the 5299 is the one labeled Turbo.


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 Old 07-12-2018, 06:47 AM   #25
 
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Well.....Asia Metal engineering....humm

But curiously, the 5299 looks stronger...

And can we really bore the stock sleeve up to 90mm ? I though we need larger insert ?
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 Old 07-12-2018, 06:55 AM   #26
 
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IDK squat about 90mm other than they are available.
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 Old 07-12-2018, 06:57 AM   #27
 
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Likely some sort of eBay rebuild package.


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 Old 07-12-2018, 09:44 AM   #28
 
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Originally Posted by Fstrnyou View Post
IDK squat about 90mm other than they are available.
I know the Darton sleeve allow 90mm but for oem sleeve...the remaining wall may get thin and weak...
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 Old 07-12-2018, 12:41 PM   #29
 
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So I broke down today and bought and engine hoist. Looks like the motor is coming out. More to come!


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 Old 07-13-2018, 08:22 PM   #30
 
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Okay updates today! Found a cheap Chinese valve spring compressor and got to work, except oops! I was carrying around two of my exhaust valves and I dropped both of them and one fell Into a storm drain.........

Sooooo I went to my favorite store, autozone, for some help, ordered two new valves since the one I saved got a little burred up. Oh well, what's another $16 right?

Anyways, got all but two of the valve seals done, will get that done tomorrow afternoon after work and hopefully get the head back on the car tomorrow and then get the studs locked down with thread locker. Then the motor comes out! Oh yeah, I also built myself a work bench for my apartment so I dont destroy my kitchen table with car parts. More to come!



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 Old 07-19-2018, 11:36 AM   #31
 
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And engine hoist. Tomorrow the engine and transmission come out!


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 Old 07-19-2018, 11:53 AM   #32
 
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Might be too late now, but I wouldn't lock in the head studs until you have a chance to evaluate the block for possible machine work.
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CS Turbo/DP/RP/HPFP/BPV/R-DiffMount
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1988 RX-7 TII - Sold (Megasquirt, streetport, filter-on-turbo SRI, custom TBE, 20psi boost creep on OE turbo, OE TMIC on ice, 13.467 @ 105.44)
1985 Camaro - Sold (est. 265bhp 5.7 swap, Edelbrock intake & Hooker headers)
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 Old 07-19-2018, 01:29 PM   #33
 
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It's not too late, I didn't have time to get the head on the block, I'm going to pull the motor and separate the trans from the block and then do the rear main and clutch. Once I've done that I'll get the motor timed and back together and then mate the engine and the trans and then back in the car! So plenty of time to look at the engine for any possible machine work. Just from using some tools I've acquired over the few years I've been in shops, everything looks to be good. And because I found out that it was a leaky valve seal and not the head gasket I'm not as worried about a warped block or Head. So we'll see. Have a few buddies coming over to help with the pull tomorrow afternoon so I'll take more pictures then


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 Old 07-20-2018, 04:23 PM   #34
 
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Okay well I took the engine out of my car early this morning, took it to a machine shop and had it inspected, as well as the head, for any damage or warping, guy said it checked out so that basically is all I did today. But man, I've pull LS motors, I've pulled big v6's, in-line 6's. By far was the biggest ball buster. Thank the lord that I had 3 friends here to help. More pics to come as I keep going.


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 Old 07-20-2018, 04:29 PM   #35
 
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The A/C pump hoses, alternator and wiring harness are a real pain on the Gen1. Mazda also likes to incorporate origami into the engine bay, so you’ll frequently have to loosen one part to get to another part that somehow holds on the first part you loosened lol. Stuff like that.


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 Old 07-20-2018, 04:54 PM   #36
 
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Apartment garage! Keep on tearing it up. I've helped friends do shit in their apt parking spots with and without shade. Brutal
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 Old 07-20-2018, 04:57 PM   #37
 
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Originally Posted by Db09ms3 View Post
Apartment garage! Keep on tearing it up. I've helped friends do shit in their apt parking spots with and without shade. Brutal

I will never again do a stock suspension upgrade without a garage. That shit was grueling and I got so sunburned. It’s like they super glue the struts into the knuckles and LOL@instructions that call for “spreading” the knuckle. Good luck!


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 Old 07-20-2018, 05:00 PM   #38
 
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BFH took care of that with a few gentle whacks. Slather new strut bottom in anti-seize, rinse and repeat.
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 Old 07-26-2018, 08:32 AM   #39
 
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So I had some time to try and get some stuff together with my motor so I've got the exhaust and turbo on, oil lines one, cams in and torqued and set with a timing tool, pulled the clutch and flywheel to do the rear main, got the timing chain on and set the proper tension, timing cover is on, just have to get the crank pulley on and torqued then make sure it's in proper timing. After that the accessories and pulleys go back on, cam cover, intake mani, fuel pump, and some nit picky stuff. The fun part begins when the trans and the motor go back together and back in the car, then wiring harness stuff and the wet systems one by one. More to come!


Didn't get any pics of the motor further together than this becuase I didn't think about it


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 Old 07-26-2018, 10:21 AM   #40
 
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I very much enjoy seeing this happen in an apartment parking lot.

Looking good so far.
Db09ms3 and Speed.mazda.3 like this.
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