Closed Loop Tables

[SLS MS3]

A couple of months ago Christian had me experiment with some Closed Loop table changes to see how the car responds. After making the changes, it felt like my car became more eager to go fast. Here are the changes for anyone that wants to try them.

Closed Loop - Exit Delay A

15

Closed Loop - Exit Delay B

40

Closed Loop - Exit Delay C

40

Closed Loop - Max Load D

2.00    2.00    2.00    1.20    1.55    1.57    1.57    1.40    1.40    0.40    0.33    0.00    0.00    0.00

Closed Loop - Max Throttle B

75.00    75.00    75.00    75.00    60.00    60.00    60.00    60.00    60.00    60.00    60.00    60.00    60.00    60.00

Closed Loop - Max Throttle C

75.00    75.00    75.00    75.00    60.00    60.00    60.00    60.00    60.00    60.00    60.00    60.00    60.00    60.00

Closed Loop - Max Throttle D

75.00    75.00    75.00    75.00    60.00    60.00    60.00    60.00    60.00    60.00    60.00    60.00    60.00    60.00

[LBV]

On that Max Load D table, are you sure the 2000 rpm # is 1.20? Just doesn't look like it fits .. Thx

[SLS MS3]

Originally Posted by LBV On that Max Load D table, are you sure the 2000 rpm # is 1.20? Just doesn't look like it fits .. Thx

I'm positive. That's the actual the stock value and the changes start at 2500 rpm. Guess I should edit out 1500 and 2000 since no changes are made at those points.

[bova]

speed6 guys better be careful looking at speed3 guys stuff cause its not going to be the same.

[aaronc7]

1.20 @ 2000rpm is same as stock/default... looks fine

btw I found a cool "trick" when you're changing a bunch of values like this that are the same. manually edit (E), the first and last number to 60 (in this case), then select all cells and push (H) for horizontal interpolation, and it will apply a value of 60 to all of them quick and easy.

[dread]

so basically you are letting the ecu stay in closed loop at higher loads.

What does the 15 stand for in exit delay? I know you cut the values in half but does that mean the ecu switches to open loop earlier? If so that is the opposite of what the other tables seem to be doing. My closed loop throttle tables are all maxed out, which probably means they are not being used. You say the car was more responsive, but were there any things you didn't like? Do you still run that map?

[SLS MS3]

Originally Posted by aaronc7 1.20 @ 2000rpm is same as stock/default... looks fine btw I found a cool "trick" when you're changing a bunch of values like this that are the same. manually edit (E), the first and last number to 60 (in this case), then select all cells and push (H) for horizontal interpolation, and it will apply a value of 60 to all of them quick and easy.

You can do the same thing vertically as well. Just select the top and bottom value and push (V). Interpolation isn't just for making values the same, it's great for smoothing out transitions also. If you select the first and last value then interpolate, the middle values will automatically be recalculated to even increments between the high and low value.

Originally Posted by dread so basically you are letting the ecu stay in closed loop at higher loads. What does the 15 stand for in exit delay? I know you cut the values in half but does that mean the ecu switches to open loop earlier? If so that is the opposite of what the other tables seem to be doing. My closed loop throttle tables are all maxed out, which probably means they are not being used. You say the car was more responsive, but were there any things you didn't like? Do you still run that map?

My understanding is that the exact opposite is happening, it's forcing the ECU to open loop sooner. Those load values are for when closed loop switches off. I think the exit delay is for how long the conditions need to be met before the ECU switches to open loop operation.

There was nothing I really didn't like about the change, but it took some adjusting to the way the car drives. I'm still running with these changes and have been for about 3 months.

[evidence]

Awesome.. thx for this. Gunna try it out in a bit.

BTW in Closed Loop - Max Load D the 5000 and 5500 values are stock and the same as the Cobb maps also.

One other trick to changing multiple values is just holding the left mouse button down to select a couple, and you can hit e and change em all quick like.

[itzl0l]

i've been driving with these changes all night....makes a very nice diff. The car feels more eager to go, but not in a jerky throttle way like some maps have. Half throttle to 3/4 throttle acceleration feels much better. On WOT it takes less time for the AFR's to get out of the 13's and into the safe zone.

[dread]

Originally Posted by itzl0l i've been driving with these changes all night....makes a very nice diff. The car feels more eager to go, but not in a jerky throttle way like some maps have. Half throttle to 3/4 throttle acceleration feels much better. On WOT it takes less time for the AFR's to get out of the 13's and into the safe zone.

did you did this in combo with aaron's throttle adjustment?

[aaronc7]

i did and i agree it feels good. I like how AFRs drop quickly when going into WOT also

[Fobio]

Originally Posted by dread did you did this in combo with aaron's throttle adjustment?

Yes.

Originally Posted by aaronc7 i did and i agree it feels good. I like how AFRs drop quickly when going into WOT also

+1

[dread]

I made this change last night and I honostly don't notice a difference. If anything I like it better in stock configuration. The car doesn't really feel any peppier to me. Its definately not a night and day difference like the throttle change.

[fostersafb]

Should max throttle stay at 75% under 2500 rpms or do all of the max throttle values need to be changed to 60% to run this change?

[itzl0l]

Originally Posted by dread I made this change last night and I honostly don't notice a difference. If anything I like it better in stock configuration. The car doesn't really feel any peppier to me. Its definately not a night and day difference like the throttle change.

yea the biggest thing is the throttle fix. This fixonly made a little bit of difference in driving, but under WOT the afr's get down into the safe zone much quicker.

[jahman]

I noticed zero difference, open loop doesnt even seem to happen earlier on my car...dunno.

And the linear throttle thing is not for me, way too smooth, way too boring, way too toyotaish. I love the hard hitting power of the "jerky" maps. Guess I'm different...

[SLS MS3]

Last Friday at the local dragstrip, I worked with MS6 Alan to figure out which tables to change on Speed6's. He was very pleased with the changes and we'll make a seperate post for anyone that wants to try them out.

[MS6 Alan]

Here are the changes we made to my MS6 map at the track last week. The stock tables and values are different for the MS6, some of the table names are different too, but we figured all that out. It definitely changed the way the car drives, and its for the better, IMO. I've been running it for a few hundred miles now, seems to smooth my 2-3 stutter a bit more.

2006 US Federal Mazdaspeed6

Exit Delay A

15

Exit Delay B

40

Exit Delay C

40

Closed Loop - Max Load C

2.00	2.00	2.00	1.20	1.55	1.57	1.57	1.40	1.30	0.40	0.33	0.00	0.00	0.00

Closed Loop - Max Throttle B

75.00	75.00	75.00	75.00	60.00	60.00	60.00	60.00	60.00	60.00	60.00	60.00	60.00	60.00

Closed Loop - Max Throttle C

75.00	75.00	75.00	75.00	60.00	60.00	60.00	60.00	60.00	60.00	60.00	60.00	60.00	60.00

Closed Loop - Max Throttle E

75.00	75.00	75.00	75.00	60.00	60.00	60.00	60.00	60.00	60.00	60.00	60.00	60.00	60.00

[LBV]

So you made Closed Loop changes at the track? Aren't you going WOT at the track? That's open loop. Just clarifying.

[evidence]

Originally Posted by LBV So you made Closed Loop changes at the track? Aren't you going WOT at the track? That's open loop. Just clarifying.

Actually the ms3 and probably the ms6 is just about the same stays in CL until 4500+ RPMs at WOT under normal circumstances. If you bump the load down in those closed loop tables it lets WOT load pass over that threshold and you should then be OL from 2500+ RPMs. Lets your AFRs come down earlier, and theoretically make more power if all goes well.

[anubis-mzd6]

Is there any way someone that is making changes to Speed6 CL tables to start a new thread. I'm in Iraq and I'm trying to understand all this before I get home sometime next month. I would like to get the PT knock fixed while i am home and I dont want to input changes for the Speed3.

[SLS MS3]

Sure, I'll make a separate thread

http://www.mazdaspeedforums.org/foru...p-changes.html

[dkswim]

going to do this tonight. any reason this would not work with any stage from stage 1 all the way up to stage2+++

[senor blanco ms3]

Originally Posted by dkswim going to do this tonight. any reason this would not work with any stage from stage 1 all the way up to stage2+++

no

[DaleNixon]

So, does everyone agree that making these adjustments makes the car run quicker AND safer?

[evidence]

Well, you have to wonder why Mazda set things up to stay in closed in all but the more extreme situations. Was this for safety and emissions? Did they then add the sharp jerk in the throttle tables to combat the high AFRs that are produced in closed loop at high throttle before 4500k?

My feeling is at the sacrifice of tight control/safety (which we don't seem to like anyway) and maybe a little bit of gas mileage the early and often open loop changes here are for the best.

[DaleNixon]

When I said "safety", I meant safety for the engine, not the occupants I'm sure you knew what I meant.

I'm assuming doing this is theoretically safer for the motor because it drops the AFR's quicker when you're getting on it.

[Broxer]

Made this change using the Genpu ATR beta and holy cow it made a HUGE difference!

Increased the fun driving factor by atleast 10.

I'll get some logs after work.

[SPEEDRAC3R]

sub for reference...

[thatsmrgimp2u]

Did this the other night, subtle but noticeable I know what you mean when you say more "eager".