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 Old 01-13-2020, 03:09 PM   #1
 
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Default Need help deciding on Turbo

Hello everyone,
This is my first post so please take it easy on me! I've been reading for quite a while now, trying to educate myself on the various options that exist for our platform. I am now stuck on what turbo to choose. Part of me says to keep it as straight forward as possible so going BNR K04 reman or S1, but the other half says go S3/CST4.

My mods consist of HPFP, CAI+ TIP, Axle-back + res delete, and a RMM. I intend to add a FMIC or TMIC in the future, but am hesitant about adding in a catted DP (or non-catted RP) because of emissions. I haven't even tuned my car yet and am happy as f*** with it which makes me think that a K04/S1 with my current mods and a AP+Freektune would suffice.

My car is my DD and I genuinely enjoy the crap out of it! Since I don't intend to take it much further, do any of you think I could take advantage of the S3/CST4 with my mods? or would it be a waste?

P.S. if i go with the S3/CST4 I would buy the 3port EBCS as recommended.

Any insight is greatly appreciated!
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 Old 01-13-2020, 10:31 PM   #2
 
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I think that the stock K04 is very fun to have in the car. I have been able get 23psi on open boost with only a high pressure fuel pump, Cobb Air intake, and 3" exhaust putting out 280WHP. In my opinion you don't need to upgrade this bad boy til you blow it. I have not looked into the turbos you listed but i was going to get a Corksport CTS6 or a GTX, leaning more towards the CTS6, but i was looking to be in the 350WHP range and my turbo upgrade would not be til I blow my own. I personally still need a real tune as I only have the free ones along with my accessport.
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 Old 01-13-2020, 11:17 PM   #3
 
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Originally Posted by LBC_Shadow View Post
In my opinion you don't need to upgrade this bad boy til you blow it.
Got quite a bit of play and my seals are shot. I'm also losing a crapload of oil. If i do stick to the BNR k04 remanufactured i will get the CPE TMIC.
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 Old 01-14-2020, 02:07 AM   #4
 
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For oil loss I went from the 14mm banjo bolt to a 22mm from Damound sport or something like that. It really really helped a lot. https://damondmotorsports.com/produc...kaAvQSEALw_wcB


I BNR S3 is also a good Turbo i would get.
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 Old 01-14-2020, 07:06 AM   #5
 
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Originally Posted by LBC_Shadow View Post
For oil loss I went from the 14mm banjo bolt to a 22mm from Damound sport...
I BNR S3 is also a good Turbo i would get.
Yea I already got the DM Banjo, replaced the PCV, and run Rotella T6 - no success man. It's time to make the switch.

Yes I have read S3 everywhere, yet some argue CST4, which is about the same price, is closer to the S4 top end but S3 spool.
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 Old 01-14-2020, 09:02 AM   #6
 
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You are probably going to be leaving a good bit of power on the table without at least a catted downpipe if you go CST4 or S3. I just installed my CST4 (with a CS catted downpipe and HPFP, had a CS SRI already) and don't throw any CEL, if that is what you are worried about. Also, getting a freektune, and on the base map with low boost, the 2000-3500 RPM range felt kinda sluggish compared to before the CST4/HPFP/Downpipe install, AND I had done a long overdue intake valve cleaning during the install. If you are set on no downpipe/high flow cat, you might be happier just getting an S1 to just avoid the seal issue.
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 Old 01-14-2020, 09:42 AM   #7
 
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Don't bother with S1/rebuild.
Can't go wrong with S3 or CST4. A conservative tune will put the K04 to shame. Yes, they are slower to spool up but the area gained below the curve and pulling hard to redline makes up for it.
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 Old 01-14-2020, 10:01 AM   #8
 
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Originally Posted by tegxsi View Post
Can't go wrong with S3 or CST4. A conservative tune will put the K04 to shame.
+1
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 Old 01-14-2020, 11:59 AM   #9
 
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Originally Posted by AntimonyER View Post
You are probably going to be leaving a good bit of power on the table without at least a catted downpipe if you go CST4 or S3. I just installed my CST4 (with a CS catted downpipe and HPFP, had a CS SRI already) and don't throw any CEL, if that is what you are worried about..... If you are set on no downpipe/high flow cat, you might be happier just getting an S1 to just avoid the seal issue.
DP is TBD, but if I do purchase it won't be for another couple of months. I have read that we should be able to pass emissions, but the visual inspection may fail (if i got the catless RP). Where I'm at, it's hit or miss. Sometimes they actually look at the camera and other times they don't. I wouldn't want to uninstall the RP just to pass emissions.

Also, what seal issues are you referring to?

Lastly, can you provide input on my inquiry below (replied to tegxsi)?

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 Old 01-14-2020, 12:08 PM   #10
 
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Originally Posted by tegxsi View Post
Don't bother with S1/rebuild.
Can't go wrong with S3 or CST4. A conservative tune will put the K04 to shame. Yes, they are slower to spool up but the area gained below the curve and pulling hard to redline makes up for it.
You signature shows you had/have the CS turbo. Is it really as simple as turbo kit & ap+tune? You also recommended the EBCS on another thread, is it a must? When looking into the EBCS I saw that I can't run 3port without a tune, so would that mean I have to complete the install and flash my car before moving it?

Last question, since I do intend to purchase the ETS or CPE TMIC, a new BPV, and knowing myself, I will eventually go for a catted DP, should I just get the AP & Freektune OTS+ until I finish with those last mods?

Right now, $1900 for CST4, JBR EBCS, and AP+Freektune is maxing out my budget.
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 Old 01-14-2020, 02:28 PM   #11
 
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Seals - turbo seals. The S1 is basically a K04 with the possibility of seal failure removed.

With the bigger turbo, you will need a base map from a tuner before firing up for the first time. They will take your full mod list and write you a map that is very conservative, until they can get some datalogs. So you will need to purchase the AP and tune along with the turbo. I believe as far as adding mods later, you can purchase a lower priced update vs. a full price tune.
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 Old 01-14-2020, 02:58 PM   #12
 
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Originally Posted by AntimonyER View Post
Seals - turbo seals. The S1 is basically a K04 with the possibility of seal failure removed.

With the bigger turbo, you will need a base map from a tuner before firing up for the first time. They will take your full mod list and write you a map that is very conservative, until they can get some datalogs. So you will need to purchase the AP and tune along with the turbo. I believe as far as adding mods later, you can purchase a lower priced update vs. a full price tune.
Thanks man, I misread you're comment about the seals. That is exactly why I'm switching out the K04.

Also appreciate the clarification regarding the tune, ofcourse I will work with my tuner to get everything buttoned up accordingly.
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 Old 01-14-2020, 03:07 PM   #13
 
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Originally Posted by 55suarod View Post
You signature shows you had/have the CS turbo. Is it really as simple as turbo kit & ap+tune? You also recommended the EBCS on another thread, is it a must? When looking into the EBCS I saw that I can't run 3port without a tune, so would that mean I have to complete the install and flash my car before moving it?

Last question, since I do intend to purchase the ETS or CPE TMIC, a new BPV, and knowing myself, I will eventually go for a catted DP, should I just get the AP & Freektune OTS+ until I finish with those last mods?

Right now, $1900 for CST4, JBR EBCS, and AP+Freektune is maxing out my budget.
You can use the stock 2-port EBCS but that still requires tuning. CS includes a restrictor pill that allows you to run in 2-port mode. The boost control isn't great and I had trouble tuning out inconsistencies. You might as well go 3-port configuration and have beautiful boost control. lol

I believe Freektune OTS+ is only for stock turbo. You need a custom tune for aftermarket turbos. Tuners will send you a safe base map based on your mods to make the car drive able.

I see your dilemma... You can just install the AP + turbo and drive around on wastegate spring pressure until get your other mods in. It won't be punchy like the K04 but it will pull nicely at higher revs.

So... I also have to deal with emissions in the future. I have a early revision of the CS turbo that CREEPS. I believe CS has made improvements in their current turbos. For this reason, kept the stock DP + test pipe setup to control the creep and keep it looking stockish. I'm content with this exhaust setup.
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 Old 01-15-2020, 11:03 AM   #14
 
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There is some stuff said here that may need attention: LBC_Shadow Stock k04 at 23 psi is a peak midrange rpm results. it won't hold it to redline Your car is making a huge amount of torque above oem but a lot less added hp. This amount of mid range torque is fun but it is also a nice way to be looking for a new engine in a near futur if there is nothing to control knock and BAT...
A slightly larger turbo will hold pressure to redline and even if it is set below your 23, it will make a more powerfull setup with less stress on the internals. The k04 is already near it's flow limits with stock tune, this is why you get more gain on torque than hp...

The risks of a bnr s3 or cst4 is the temptation to add too much boost on the stock engine. It need to be dialed down for longevity (raison for creep) and stuff will last. But some peoples like me, cannot resist to the temptation to raise boost...So if you cannot afford a new engine and lose your DD for a while, you need to remain careful.
My stock bloc handled a gt2871 abuse for a very long time until i pushed it too far...And it is about the same range of size of the bnrs3-4 and cst4...
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 Old 01-15-2020, 11:56 AM   #15
 
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hmm...LBC_Shadow AP reads 23psi?? The stock 2.5bar maxes out at 22. You really don't know the actual amount of boost beyond that. How do you not hit boost cut on OTS maps?
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 Old 01-15-2020, 12:00 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by LBC_Shadow View Post
I think that the stock K04 is very fun to have in the car. I have been able get 23psi on open boost with only a high pressure fuel pump, Cobb Air intake, and 3" exhaust putting out 280WHP. In my opinion you don't need to upgrade this bad boy til you blow it. I have not looked into the turbos you listed but i was going to get a Corksport CTS6 or a GTX, leaning more towards the CTS6, but i was looking to be in the 350WHP range and my turbo upgrade would not be til I blow my own. I personally still need a real tune as I only have the free ones along with my accessport.
I really hope that you've got an aftermarket 3.0 - 4.0Bar MAP sensor. The OEM sensor can only read up to 2.5Bar (about 21.5psi at STP). If your AP is reading 23psi and you have the OEM sensor, then you actually have no idea what amount of boost your turbo is generating, you have an unsafe tune, and it's just a matter of time before you pop your motor.
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 Old 01-15-2020, 06:04 PM   #17
 
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Originally Posted by Vansquish View Post
I really hope that you've got an aftermarket 3.0 - 4.0Bar MAP sensor. The OEM sensor can only read up to 2.5Bar (about 21.5psi at STP). If your AP is reading 23psi and you have the OEM sensor, then you actually have no idea what amount of boost your turbo is generating, you have an unsafe tune, and it's just a matter of time before you pop your motor.
I rolled the car and it blew up... Have pics if you wanna see
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 Old 01-16-2020, 06:42 AM   #18
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If you rolled your car and blew it up, how are you still asking questions about it and complaining about the car's stuttering performance?

Post datalogs.
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 Old 01-17-2020, 06:16 PM   #19
 
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Originally Posted by Jeff23spl View Post
The risks of a bnr s3 or cst4 is the temptation to add too much boost on the stock engine. It need to be dialed down for longevity (raison for creep) and stuff will last. But some peoples like me, cannot resist to the temptation to raise boost...So if you cannot afford a new engine and lose your DD for a while, you need to remain careful.
My stock bloc handled a gt2871 abuse for a very long time until i pushed it too far...And it is about the same range of size of the bnrs3-4 and cst4...
Thanks for the input! Knowing myself, i too would want to add more boost after some time. But as previously mentioned, if I think my speed 3 is fast on the K04 with minimal mods and no tune, I think I'm going to be blown out the water with a new turbo and a proper tune!

Regardless, i just have to survive a few months before being able to drop more money into my car. Right now I'm limited to 2 Gs because I had some work done in my newly purchased home.
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