Who DOESN'T run a Garrett turbo

[Alpha]

Originally Posted by Ezekiel81923 So it's more expensive but I don't need to buy an EWG or a BOV. That's good to know. That right there is 500-600$ And they fit back there in the stock location?? That's even better to know. I'm going to watch the tutorials and try that matchbot and see how the 7163 and 7670 would work on my car. Again, not going for crazy power output but in the 400 range and quick spool is what attacts me to these, the GTX's and the Precisions My exhaust manifold is T3 flange so I would need a T3 flanged turbine housing. SFWD 1934 Can you mix n match compressors with turbine housings or is that not an option or a good idea?

Yup, they really are a complete package.

Running an EFR turbo without a Full Race manifold would be an epic sin lol

[Ezekiel81923]

Originally Posted by Alpha Yup, there really are a complete package. Running an EFR turbo without a Full Race manifold would be an epic sin lol

Perhaps, but $1300 for an exhaust manifold is pretty steep for me. The Steedspeed T3 EWG was ~$500 less

[SFWD 1934]

The only option you have is if they make a turbine housing in a different AR. So lets say you are looking at a turbo that comes with an .82 hot side. You say to yourself you know I think I want to have a little bit more top end, so I want to go with a .90 or 1.01 hot side. You cannot just say oh look I want that one. They are all machined with certain clearances for that turbine wheel.

Now with that being said, you need to see what fits you best for your application. Some guys will opt to go larger on the hot side to like I said get more top end. Now this is where it can be a double edged sword. It allows to you to push that power out, but if you do not have the head and/or ability to flow higher in the RPM range is is kind of pointless.

Honestly for the money that you are going to spend, which between the 3 units is very close I would rock the EFR every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

A 5252 with an .82 hot side is going to run you around $700.
A Tial MVS gate will run you about $330
A Tial Q BPV will run you about $225
A total of roughly $1200

A Speed 3 specific GTX3071 will run you about $1800
A 4 bolt T3 .82 GTX3071 will run you about $1700
A Tial MVS gate will run you about $330
A Tial Q BPV will run you about $225

An EFR 6758 will run you about $1400
An EFR 7670 will run you about $1500


Jason

[rfinkle2]

I guess the idea is simply to wait if you want one of these turbos.

Is there an idea of when one will definitely be able to pick up one of these turbos. i.e. assume that you aren't getting the first turbo and that they are widely available?

[Alpha]

Originally Posted by Ezekiel81923 Perhaps, but $1300 for an exhaust manifold is pretty steep for me. The Steedspeed T3 EWG was ~$500 less

Not sure where you got that price, but the MZR manifolds are 1099 MSRP and are sold through Edge Auto for $899 with their infamous lifetime warranty.

You also can't compare a Steedspeed manifold to Full Race's work. It's on a whole other level.

[SFWD 1934]

Originally Posted by rfinkle2 I guess the idea is simply to wait if you want one of these turbos. Is there an idea of when one will definitely be able to pick up one of these turbos. i.e. assume that you aren't getting the first turbo and that they are widely available.

I have some that will be coming in September 19.

Jason

[silvapain]

Originally Posted by SFWD 1934 I have some that will be coming in September 19. Jason

You will have 6758's for sale at $1400 and 7670's for $1500?

You and me need to talk.


Tapadatass

[Ezekiel81923]

Originally Posted by Alpha Not sure where you got that price, but the MZR manifolds are 1099 MSRP and are sold through Edge Auto for $899 with their infamous lifetime warranty. You also can't compare a Steedspeed manifold to Full Race's work. It's on a whole other level.

It's $997 on Edge and that's for the regular ProStock manifold (that's before the famous MSF discount obviously).

The T25 EFR exhaust manifold is $1227 + $95 for coating (which the steedspeed comes with) per the full race website. I assumed this is the one you were talking about since we were talking EFR turbo's

I'm not trying to argue with you, I'm sure its a wonderful manifold but I'm not biting on much of anything at that price. For the setup I originally had planned the SteedSpeed was more than good enough, and should still be regardless of what Turbo I end up going with.

Originally Posted by SFWD 1934 A 5252 with an .82 hot side is going to run you around $700. A Tial MVS gate will run you about $330 A Tial Q BPV will run you about $225 A total of roughly $1200 A Speed 3 specific GTX3071 will run you about $1800 A 4 bolt T3 .82 GTX3071 will run you about $1700 A Tial MVS gate will run you about $330 A Tial Q BPV will run you about $225 An EFR 6758 will run you about $1400 An EFR 7670 will run you about $1500 Jason

That's more or less it right there. I was actually looking at the S252 with .55 A/R or Precision 5557 with .63 A/R just to ensure I get quicker spool. I've read plenty of drivers on other platforms (SRT's, Cobalts, Evo's mainly) running 400whp-500whp on those turbos/housings no problem so it'd suit my needs perfectly fine.

The larger turbine housings that the EFR's come with made me nervous at first but if the word is even with a .82 A/R housing it'll still spool lightning fast then I guess I won't argue with the numbers.

[SFWD 1934]

Originally Posted by silvapain You will have 6758's for sale at $1400 and 7670's for $1500? You and me need to talk. Tapadatass

My number is at the bottom. You can give me a call whenever.

Jason

[Ezekiel81923]

Alright...

I dunno if this is really considered "narrowing it down" but I think I've got it down to 3.

Bullseye S252 Batmowheel w/ T3 .55 A/R 4-bolt housing (w/ 4-bolt to V-band apapter) ~$1500

Precision Billet BB 5557 (4" ported inlet) w/ T3 .63 A/R V-band housing ...$1439

BorgWarner EFR 6758 / 7163 with T25 V-band housing ...$ ??

All are pretty close in price and ALL are much less expensive than the GTX's. If I went EFR I'd probably sell the Steedspeed and use the money saved on not needing an EWG and BOV to buy the T25 EFR manifold.

That of course assumes I can even get a BW in the next couple months. If I knew I could put money down now to guarantee myself one by fall then I'd do it.

Here's looking at you SFWD 1934

[SFWD 1934]

Ezekiel81923

You get the money set up, and you can have yourself and EFR this fall.

Jason

[phate]

[8374]

[SFWD 1934]

I know the graph that I am about to show is not the best, but it will give you some idea of what to expect once you go EFR. The two cars are both on a Full-Race manifold. The Gen 1 car has the Pro Stock with a GTX3071, the Gen 2 car has the T25 with the 7163. The 7163 was running just off the gate preload, which was set to 12 PSI. The GTX3071 was running about 20 PSI. There will be more graphs from the 7163, I am waiting for the Sure Halos to get here, so I can put them through the paces as well.

Jason

[rfinkle2]

SFWD 1934...

I'd be all over that 7163 as well, but I am afraid in the fall, Borg Warner will not be able to produce the turbos, or the amount of turbos needed.

Is there any way of us knowing they will definitely be available by a particular date? If so, I would put a deposit on one.

[Ezekiel81923]

Originally Posted by rfinkle2 SFWD 1934... I'd be all over that 7163 as well, but I am afraid in the fall, Borg Warner will not be able to produce the turbos, or the amount of turbos needed. Is there any way of us knowing they will definitely be available by a particular date? If so, I would put a deposit on one.

Haha that's essentially the exact same thing I message him about. We might have Full-Race sold out of EFR's before long!

[86azms3]

Originally Posted by SFWD 1934 I know the graph that I am about to show is not the best, but it will give you some idea of what to expect once you go EFR. The two cars are both on a Full-Race manifold. The Gen 1 car has the Pro Stock with a GTX3071, the Gen 2 car has the T25 with the 7163. The 7163 was running just off the gate preload, which was set to 12 PSI. The GTX3071 was running about 20 PSI. There will be more graphs from the 7163, I am waiting for the Sure Halos to get here, so I can put them through the paces as well. Jason

So what's this compare?


Either way...my best advice is to ditch the k04...whatever it is you'll be happy. Just don't go overboard with sizing.

[Ziggo]

I am glad I dropped in here. I have been futzing around getting the other pieces in place to support a 7163. So mid- September is the word? I would be picking up a package, manifold, turbo and downpipe.

I am very interested in the prospect of an IWG T4 divided housing, particularly if someone can supply a manifold to go with it. I'd wait longer for that.

[Alpha]

Originally Posted by Ziggo I am glad I dropped in here. I have been futzing around getting the other pieces in place to support a 7163. So mid- September is the word? I would be picking up a package, manifold, turbo and downpipe. I am very interested in the prospect of an IWG T4 divided housing, particularly if someone can supply a manifold to go with it. I'd wait longer for that.

6258 and 6758 turbos in august/sept time then 7163 in nov/dec.

The T4 TS housings are a strong possibility and if we do get them, Full Race will have us covered manifold wise.

Once I get built I'm definitely going to be waiting to do a T4 TS hotside/manifold swap if it comes out.

[Ezekiel81923]

Originally Posted by Alpha 6258 and 6758 turbos in august/sept time then 7163 in nov/dec. The T4 TS housings are a strong possibility and if we do get them, Full Race will have us covered manifold wise. Once I get built I'm definitely going to be waiting to do a T4 TS hotside/manifold swap if it comes out.

As of now through the 7163's will be T25 flanged right?

This is hard work hahah. Getting one of these when they first come out won't be easy and then being prepared for any turbine housing changes (and subsequently waiting for manifolds to be adapted for those) is going to be a process.

[Alpha]

Originally Posted by Ezekiel81923 As of now through the 7163's will be T25 flanged right? This is hard work hahah. Getting one of these when they first come out won't be easy and then being prepared for any turbine housing changes (and subsequently waiting for manifolds to be adapted for those) is going to be a process.

The 7163s, as of now are T25 flanged and Full Race has a manifold available for them.

If and when the T4 housing is released, I'm sure their T4 manifold will be as well.

[SFWD 1934]

The 7163 was designed to be a "drop in" replacement that is interchangeable with the 6258/6758 turbo. It has almost identical spool as the 6758, but will flow more on the top end and allow for a higher peak HP. There are supposed to be new turbine housing options for the 7163, but I am not sure what those are at this point. Honestly we will probably find out at SEMA this year what exactly those options are. I know that there is a T4 twin scroll that is coming out for the 6758. The 7163 has the new lighter aluminum center bearing housing.

My plan now is I am going to bring some of the 6758 units with me to the Mazfest in September this year.

Jason

[Ezekiel81923]

Alright well for me personally I think it's between the EFR 6758 and the Batmowheel S252.

The nice thing about the Batmowheel is I can have it now, and all I need is an adapter to convert the turbine housing to V-band. The EFR would require an all new manifold and a "more custom" DP than I had already planned.

Time to watch some dyno vids and check out some maps.

[Alpha]

Once my new motor and clutch go in I'll have a mess of high boost videos up to show you guys what these EFRs can do.

[Deldran]

Just out of curiosity why doesnt anyone ever look at turbonetics turbos?

rfinkle2 why you no use gtx2867, or whatever number it was. it turn out to be a crappy turbo or something?

[rfinkle2]

Originally Posted by Deldran Just out of curiosity why doesnt anyone ever look at turbonetics turbos? rfinkle2 why you no use gtx2867, or whatever number it was. it turn out to be a crappy turbo or something?

No, not @ all (crappy turbo). I wish it had a longer outlet on the hotside, but I can have that addressed.

I also wish it had an integrated high pressure boost source, but that can be addressed as well.

Also wondering about any creep, considering ATP seems to have dropped the ball on the IWG on there Mazda offerings.

Little things that wouldn't bother some people make me antsy about ATP as a turbo choice, but they are one of the only companies with a so-called drop in solution @ this time.

I'm worse than any woman when it comes to parts choice.

It is a good turbo for certain power goals, no doubt.

[Voltwings]

Originally Posted by rfinkle2 I also wish it had an integrated high pressure boost source, but that can be addressed as well.

i just installed my 3071 and felt tapping the silicone was slightly sketchy so what i did was just run my boost controller to my vacuum block. That block is fed by the manifold nipple that would normally go to the BPV, and then it disperses the boost/vacuum equally through up to 6 ports. I have my BPV, Meth, Boost gauge and now this, going off that block, its MUCH cleaner than just having T's everywhere, going to start tuning in about an hour so we'll see if this works.


Sorry for the janky pic, its bright and i scratched the lens on my phones camera.

[Ziggo]

I don't know specifically about the ATP wastegates, but I know damage has occurred in the past from applying vacuum to the actuator so I don't think that's a great idea. They are not meant to be "sucked" on


Zigatapatalka

[Ezekiel81923]

Originally Posted by Deldran Just out of curiosity why doesnt anyone ever look at turbonetics turbos? rfinkle2 why you no use gtx2867, or whatever number it was. it turn out to be a crappy turbo or something?

I have looked at them but honestly don't know shit about them.

I can't identify an offering with a T3 hotside that compares to any of the other Billet compressor wheel turbo's (S252 Batmowheel / Precision 5557 / GTX3071R / BW EFR 6758)

I'd like to know more though, a few people run 50trim Turbonetics and make a lot of power with them.

[Deldran]

They have alot of options for turbos if you look at there site. I am not yet very well versed in what all the differnt trims mean but here is a link

T3/TO4B Turbochargers | www.TurboneticsInc.com - Boosting Since 1978 | turbochargers, intercoolers, wastegates, blow-off valves, controls, boosting systems, turbo kits, forced induction parts & accessories

Those seem to be comparable to a GT or GTX30R. t3 turbine housing, with a t4 compressor housing.

[covelife1016]

I have a holset hx35 with aT3 .70ar hotside from back in my dsm days. Anyone thoughtabout running one?

[Ezekiel81923]

I think I'm pretty set on the S252 BatMoWheel. I've only seen a few maps / dyno charts of it, can't find any videos of it, but it looks like it spools really fast on the Cobalt and SRT platforms so I'd think it'd spool just as well if not better on ours given the correct supporting mods. Also a lot of Cobalts hitting 500whp+ on this turbo, way more than I'd ever need.

Can't find many places that still sell it. Curious if the options available on other BEP BatMo's are available on this little guy. Like a V-band turbine housing or a double BatMo set up.

I'd be afraid to jump to the 256 or 259, don't want to lose the fun on the bottom end.

Waiting to hear back from some folks on their impressions. We. Will. See.

[Realgib3]

I'll just never understand all you guys wanting to run these little turbos that make huge tq numbers... on FWD cars... I've never seen such a premium put on "Spool time" from ANY other platform. It's just mind boggling to me.

On a speed 6, were the tq can be utilized, yes, by all means go with a smaller efficient BT so you can have near identical HP/TQ number, but on a 3 that logic just doesn't make sense.

Anyway, good luck but you (and everyone else that can't get off the "initial spool" train) would be much better off with a car with a flat 350-375 tq from 5k-RL, making 450+ hp, than a car making 400hp but even more tq.

[SFWD 1934]

Bullseye turbos are worked Holset units with the nice compressor wheel. Real Holset units are not the cheapest and you want to be very careful of those nice China replicas that are sold.

Jason

[covelife1016]

got mine off a cummins and got the hotside from a fellow dsmer.

[Ezekiel81923]

Originally Posted by SFWD 1934 Bullseye turbos are worked Holset units with the nice compressor wheel. Real Holset units are not the cheapest and you want to be very careful of those nice China replicas that are sold. Jason

Are you implying the Bullseye's are one of the nice China replicas? Wasn't sure if those were separate thoughts.

At least from pictures It looked like the Bullseyes still used a BW compressor with an extended top (Batmowheel) compressor wheel. Every compressor I've seen still says BorgWarner (at least it does on the S252)

[SFWD 1934]

No there are a bunch of people who try to pass off $300 China turbos as Holset units.

Jason

[SpdDemon89]

I run a k04 because its what was on the car when i bought it :cry:

[covelife1016]

Originally Posted by SFWD 1934 No there are a bunch of people who try to pass off $300 China turbos as Holset units. Jason

Best place to get a used holset would definitely be on a cummins forum in the classifieds. Not that your in the market for one, just for anyone that is.

[theschrum]

I started with the ATP GT2872,
Switched to a T3 housing,
I am currently installing a Billet 6262.

[Ezekiel81923]

Originally Posted by Realgib3 I'll just never understand all you guys wanting to run these little turbos that make huge tq numbers... on FWD cars... I've never seen such a premium put on "Spool time" from ANY other platform. It's just mind boggling to me. On a speed 6, were the tq can be utilized, yes, by all means go with a smaller efficient BT so you can have near identical HP/TQ number, but on a 3 that logic just doesn't make sense. Anyway, good luck but you (and everyone else that can't get off the "initial spool" train) would be much better off with a car with a flat 350-375 tq from 5k-RL, making 450+ hp, than a car making 400hp but even more tq.

I can't disagree with you here. I'm looking for a middle ground I think, not something that seems non-existent until it hits like a ton of bricks at 4200rpm but rather something that feels like it's always there, gradually building. Though I suppose if 390wtq feels like it's always there it's probably because it is.

I just don't want to have to keep switching out hot sides until I feel the response I'm looking for, that's why I put so much emphasis on it now. I want it to be right the first time.