Lower rear ride height after Koni install

[SLOWHATCH]

So I finally got around to installing my Koni shocks and I have to admit I am pretty disapointed with the results. My biggest complaint is the fact that the rear end is at least 1/2" lower now and I am having issues with my rear tires rubbing. To the point where my rear fenders got slightly fucked after hitting a big dip in the road.

Has anyone else had this issue? I'm really regretting having purchased these shocks when I could have bought some Ksport co's and sold my swifts springs and spent about the same without my rear end sitting lower than the fronts. Any help would be appreciated. If I can't get the ride height level somehow I'll likely be parting with this set up.

I'll try to post some pics tomorrow of the difference in height.

Ok, here are a couple pics that I think show the difference well. Didn't take any measurements since it's been raining all day, plus I don't have the measurements from before the install. It wouldn't bother me if I could get the front lower. But this sucks.

[radioflyer]

The only thing you changed was the shocks?

[vrspeed10]

something is not right.. your shocks dont support the cars weight.. on a side not how do you like the swift spring and did you ever run a different spring before it?

[dMuze]

stock tires/rims with koni yellow rears and CS springs = perfect homie. not sure what the issue is.

[SLOWHATCH]

Only thing changed was the shocks. I've only had the Swifts on the car, no other shocks. Same shock mounts in rear since they were in good shape. Got new mounts for the front.
I think the swifts are great. No complaints there. Just feel like I've had a harder time than expected to match the dampers to the springs.

Originally Posted by dMuze stock tires/rims with koni yellow rears and CS springs = perfect homie. not sure what the issue is.

So your ride height stayed the same? I have taken them off a few times now to play around with the setting. Thought maybe I set them too soft at first, even though common sense tells me the shocks do not control ride height, wanted to be sure. Set them almost to full stiff to see if it changed anything and no difference in height.

[Cyclops]

You're right.. shocks do not control ride height. This seems strange. I have a gen1 with yellows and cobb springs and i love the set up. I've had no problems at all and did not experience the problem you're having.

I also have mine set at full soft in the back and about midway up front. Wish I could help you.. Not really sure whats going on here tho..

[Raider]

Regular 3 Konis drop the rear. What model did you get?

[SLOWHATCH]

I ordered the specific 2010+ model ones. I forget the part numbers but I double checked they were correct, at least for the year.

[MATT DAMOND]

For every set of MS3 Koni's I've installed, the front struts had to be modified to get the proper ride height. It seems like more or less of a quality control issue at koni, since the bracket that stops the strut in the knuckle, never seems to be welded in the right spot.

If you didn't already modify your front struts, you'll prob have to remove them and check them compared to the OEM struts. Here's a thread detailing what to do: http://www.mazdaspeedforums.org/foru...install-73387/

[SLOWHATCH]

Originally Posted by MATT DAMOND For every set of MS3 Koni's I've installed, the front struts had to be modified to get the proper ride height. It seems like more or less of a quality control issue at koni, since the bracket that stops the strut in the knuckle, never seems to be welded in the right spot. If you didn't already modify your front struts, you'll prob have to remove them and check them compared to the OEM struts. Here's a thread detailing what to do: http://www.mazdaspeedforums.org/foru...install-73387/

Thanks, I've seen the thread and have considered this as an option to leveling the ride height back to or as close to normal. I don't see this "mod" to the front struts getting me close enough to where I want to be, but I guess it's worth a shot. Just not sure if doing so will void my warranty...?

FWIW this is the part # for the rear shocks I ordered. 8040 1353Sport

[anavrinIV]

is the rear actually lower or is the front higher? there's a different issue in each situation

[MATT DAMOND]

Yeah, I'd maybe check with Koni, letting them know you have to modify the bracket, so the car sits properly.

Can you post some pics of the side of the car, so we can see how it sits? Did you cut the rear bumpstops at all?

[SLOWHATCH]

Originally Posted by anavrinIV is the rear actually lower or is the front higher? there's a different issue in each situation

The front is not noticeably higher, maybe an 1/8", but I went from having a tight two finger gap in the front and back to a slightly loose two finger gap in front and a loose 1 finger gap in the rear if that gives you a perspective. I'll post some pics and measurements tomorrow.

Originally Posted by MATT DAMOND Yeah, I'd maybe check with Koni, letting them know you have to modify the bracket, so the car sits properly. Can you post some pics of the side of the car, so we can see how it sits? Did you cut the rear bumpstops at all?

Yeah I'll give them a call asap and see if I can get any insight from them on this issue. I'll have some before and after pics tomorrow. I cut approximately 1/2" off the rear bumpstops, but that shouldn't affect the height since the car is not resting on the stops.

[Easter Bunny]

The rear has shocks, shocks do not change ride height but struts will. There has to be another issue.

[SLOWHATCH]

Originally Posted by Easter Bunny The rear has shocks, shocks do not change ride height but struts will. There has to be another issue.

If there is an issue it must be with the shocks themselves. Kinda hard to screw up the install of the rear shocks IMO.

[Raider]

I have the FSD's and my car sits fine. I do know the passenger strut mounting tab was 1/8 too low, would not go in all the way. had to Dremel a notch in the tab, pop it off, and it sat flush. The strut had a mark where it was supposed to be, but it was lower. Thankfully, it was all below the weld.

[Big_Burd]

I have koni yellows (sports) on stock springs and they barely dropped the ride height. Try putting your stock springs back on and see how you like it. I have a genwon and idk if there are differences between the konis in genwon and pu.

However like a lot of people said, sounds like you have a different issue, and I"m no suspension guru.

[SLOWHATCH]

Added pics to the OP

[specvspeedfreak]

doesn't look bad. If you want, remove anything in the trunk that is heavy. I removed my spare (now have a fix a flat can) and I think it helped. I had the same problem when I installed bilsteins. Not sure if it was to the same degree but similar. Also, make sure you have the front shock all the way in. You can always do the cutting tab trick to have the fronts go in further. I was actually thinking of doing it with the bilstein but after removing the weight in the hatch and getting fatter tires, it really doesn't bother me much... If the setup feels good to you, don't mess it much.

this is mine:
http://www.mazdaspeedforums.org/foru...s-img_2957.jpg

http://www.mazdaspeedforums.org/foru...s-img_2959.jpg

[MATT DAMOND]

SLOWHATCH Thanks for the pics. When you had the stock dampers in, and just the springs in, did the rear sit at that height?

Swift springs do lower the car quite a bit, and seeing as how the front is lifted, I'm pretty sure some grinding and cutting is needed on the front strut brackets.

[jack_hammer]

what a disappointment to hear about the koni's. for those prices you should expect them to fit. i'm installing sen-sen's right now and am comfortable chopping up things to get them in place. but they are significantly less so it doesn't bother me. plus, they're a stop-gap solution. people buy koni's to be the final solution.

<edit>
i read the link to dano's thread. i had seen that before but forgot. still a bummer, then, to see it continuing.

[Crarrs]

Did the upper spring perches fall out when you had the car jacked up to change the shocks? I know it would be weird for it to happen to both, but double-check that the springs are sitting where they're supposed to. For a sanity check, you can pull the shock out and set the car down to see where the ride height ends up without it in. Take measurements. Also, try to run the suspension through its full travel arc to make sure nothing is binding. I'm looking at your eBay camber arms as a possible culprit, I haven't seen anybody else running those.

[MATT DAMOND]

Originally Posted by Crarrs Did the upper spring perches fall out when you had the car jacked up to change the shocks? I know it would be weird for it to happen to both, but double-check that the springs are sitting where they're supposed to. For a sanity check, you can pull the shock out and set the car down to see where the ride height ends up without it in. Take measurements. Also, try to run the suspension through its full travel arc to make sure nothing is binding. I'm looking at your eBay camber arms as a possible culprit, I haven't seen anybody else running those.

The ebay camber arms the OP is using are re-branded SPC's. I've compared a set of ebay CAs against a set of SPC CAs. SPC CAs have a raised SPC logo in the casting, and on the ebay arms you can see that raised casting grinded down.

[SLOWHATCH]

Originally Posted by specvspeedfreak doesn't look bad. If you want, remove anything in the trunk that is heavy. I removed my spare (now have a fix a flat can) and I think it helped. I had the same problem when I installed bilsteins. Not sure if it was to the same degree but similar. Also, make sure you have the front shock all the way in. You can always do the cutting tab trick to have the fronts go in further. I was actually thinking of doing it with the bilstein but after removing the weight in the hatch and getting fatter tires, it really doesn't bother me much... If the setup feels good to you, don't mess it much. this is mine: http://www.mazdaspeedforums.org/foru...s-img_2957.jpg http://www.mazdaspeedforums.org/foru...s-img_2959.jpg

Yeah, I already run around with no spare, jack etc. I never keep anything in my car haha. I made absolutely sure twice now that the shock is in as far as it can go. The tab is resting flat on the knuckle. Looks like I'll have to cut the tab down. I even set the rear super stiff just to be sure and made no difference. If I get the chance I'll have to grind down the front tabs. I need to put in my new bumpstops in the front anyways. Any idea how much more it can lower the front? If I can get mine to look like yours I'll be very happy.

Originally Posted by MATT DAMOND SLOWHATCH Thanks for the pics. When you had the stock dampers in, and just the springs in, did the rear sit at that height? Swift springs do lower the car quite a bit, and seeing as how the front is lifted, I'm pretty sure some grinding and cutting is needed on the front strut brackets.

The pic of the front angle is with Swift Springs only. I loved how even the ride height was. I wanted it to stay just like that. I can deal with it being lower, if I can get the front a bit closer to the same amount of drop.

Originally Posted by Crarrs Did the upper spring perches fall out when you had the car jacked up to change the shocks? I know it would be weird for it to happen to both, but double-check that the springs are sitting where they're supposed to. For a sanity check, you can pull the shock out and set the car down to see where the ride height ends up without it in. Take measurements. Also, try to run the suspension through its full travel arc to make sure nothing is binding. I'm looking at your eBay camber arms as a possible culprit, I haven't seen anybody else running those.

I didn't remove the springs at all to remove or install the rear shocks and everything looked normal after install as far as the springs are concerned. But I guess it's worth a shot. I'm thinking the overall length of the oem vs koni shocks are different.

Originally Posted by MATT DAMOND The ebay camber arms the OP is using are re-branded SPC's. I've compared a set of ebay CAs against a set of SPC CAs. SPC CAs have a raised SPC logo in the casting, and on the ebay arms you can see that raised casting grinded down.

I haven't had any issues with them so far. Didn't know they were rebranded but good to know. Thanks for everyones input. I'll make sure to post up if I find out anything.

[iammike]

SLOWHATCH, if it makes you feel any better, I'm having the EXACT same issue since installing the Koni Yellow's today.

FWIW, I can backup your assessment that it's not the front that's all jacked up higher than it was. My front has virtually the same wheel gap now as it had with just the CS springs and OEM struts.

The rear, on the other hand, I noticed immediately after pulling out of the garage. I went from having the same wheel gap as the front to significantly less.

Here's my one and only theory. If the OEM shock body was sitting on the bump stop after putting the springs on but the Koni shock body is shorter...then the rear would sit down lower after the install.

The car rides fine and the Koni's were a large improvement over OEM though. Just have a weird tiny squeak in the front left that I'm hoping will work it's way out.

[Nliiitend1]

Lee

Any thoughts?

I have some of my own, but I'm wondering what the guy who works for Koni has to say...

[iammike]

Well before making any more permanent attempts to get things leveled out, I've ordered some shorter front bump stops. Figure if the front is riding on the bump stop with the lowering springs, replacing with shorter stops (which I should have done right off the bat anyway) will help bring the front down.

[Kawiralph]

I had the same issue after installing koni yellows with eibach springs and OEM bumpstops front and rear. I modified the alignement tabs on the front struts resulting in an additional 8mm in lowering the front. This setup rides with no issues so far and the overall stance looks perfect for me. pics of your gen2 thread post 2860

After installation of the Koni yellows, the front actually had the same height as with the OEM struts and the eibach springs. Only the rear sat about 10 mm lower than with the OEM shocks.

The same issue is also reported by some guys in the german forum using Bilstein shocks.
I don't have an explanation, but it does seem to be related to the design of the OEM rear shocks.

Originally Posted by iammike Well before making any more permanent attempts to get things leveled out, I've ordered some shorter front bump stops. Figure if the front is riding on the bump stop with the lowering springs, replacing with shorter stops (which I should have done right off the bat anyway) will help bring the front down.

Initially I used the OEM bumpstops on both ends with the Koni yellow/Eibach combination. After a while I changed the bumpstops from OEM to FatCat bumpstops. In my case, this didn't have any effect on ride height.

[pwned]

In the Legacy Gt wagon world when owners would lower their car the ass would be lower than the front. The fix was to add a saggy butt spacer(went on top of the rear shock). Maybe someone could make one for us??

[iammike]

Originally Posted by pwned In the Legacy Gt wagon world when owners would lower their car the ass would be lower than the front. The fix was to add a saggy butt spacer(went on top of the rear shock). Maybe someone could make one for us??

Unfortunately, because of the way our rear coils are mounted, I don't see how this solution would help us. Wish it would though. Would be a perfect solution for me since I'd rather raise the rear than lower the front.

[pwned]

Originally Posted by iammike Unfortunately, because of the way our rear coils are mounted, I don't see how this solution would help us. Wish it would though. Would be a perfect solution for me since I'd rather raise the rear than lower the front.

The OP stated it was lower after the shock install. Maybe creating a 1/4 spacer to slide up where the studs come down would do the trick? Im not talking about washers. But some kind of hard treated plastic cut to fit by a dremel.

[iammike]

Originally Posted by pwned The OP stated it was lower after the shock install. Maybe creating a 1/4 spacer to slide up where the studs come down would do the trick? Im not talking about washers. But some kind of hard treated plastic cut to fit by a dremel.

I have no idea honestly. It might make a difference. From everything I knew before this situation I would never have expected shocks to change ride height unless maybe the old ones were completely busted.

The most solid piece of info I ran across that might have to do with this was something I found in the Gen1 section.

Apparently the OEM setup has low gas pressure tubes in the front struts but high pressure tubes in the rear shocks. Most OEM setups and aftermarket setups have the same front and rear.

As a result of the lower pressure in the shock, that could let it sit a little lower.

Makes sense I guess. Best way I personally see to fix it would be to come up with some kind of plate that sits in the lower or upper coil spring cups in the rear.

[pwned]

I saw a picture in a thread somewhere of stock vs koni side by side. The koni was definately shorter plain as day.

[iammike]

Originally Posted by pwned I saw a picture in a thread somewhere of stock vs koni side by side. The koni was definately shorter plain as day.

Shorter should only be able to make the car lower in one of two cases that I can think of.

A: The shock is fully extended before the car can reach the ride height it's supposed to be at. This is not the case.

B: The OEM shock body being longer had it riding harder on the bump stop which would effectively increase spring rate and cause the car to ride higher. If the Koni shock body was not making contact or making less contact, this could let the car sit lower.

If it has anything at all to do with the length of the shock, it has to be B. The gas pressure I read about also sounds like a legitimate possibility.

Either way, I'm looking into ways to raise the rear of my car. While lowering the front some is doable with some permanent modification to the front struts, I really didn't want to be that low.

I've considered air bags and coil inserts but both of those would alter the spring rate in the rear. Only way I can think to not change spring rate but raise the rear is to come up with some kind of inserts that would go above or below the coil in the cups. Upper would probably be easier since you don't have to worry about the coil stop.

[Kawiralph]

In my case, the bodies of both the OEM and the Koni yellow shocks were identical in length.
However, with fully extended rods, the koni Yellow was longer than the OEM shock.

[pwned]

1/4", 1/2", 3/4" & 1" Saggy Butt Spacers --> SUBTLE SOLUTIONS - Subaru Impreza WRX STI Forums: IWSTI.com

[iammike]

Originally Posted by pwned 1/4", 1/2", 3/4" & 1" Saggy Butt Spacers --> SUBTLE SOLUTIONS - Subaru Impreza WRX STI Forums: IWSTI.com

While I can see how these would work on Subbie rear struts, I don't think it will work on our rear shocks.

[Kawiralph]

As long as they have the correct dimensions they should do the job. The bolts for attaching the top shock mounts are plenty long.

Gesendet von meinem HTC One X mit Tapatalk 2

[iammike]

Originally Posted by Kawiralph As long as they have the correct dimensions they should do the job. The bolts for attaching the top shock mounts are plenty long. Gesendet von meinem HTC One X mit Tapatalk 2

That's not the problem. Problem is that the shock does not exert more pressure because it is depressed more. In other words, all putting this on top the shock would do is remove suspension travel.

What needs to be done is something like the saggy butt things but made to go above or below the coil which is separate from the shock.

[pwned]

If the all the koni shocks do this then maybe we need to look somewhere else. Like the top of the line napa/sears/midas shocks or something like that. Since bilsteins do the same as well.