OEM toe issue.

[cshunter]

Bro Spiders.

[dantes5823]

Originally Posted by specvspeedfreak what are the specs of your alignment? Outside wear usually means your car is pushing around corners. Check your tire pressures and adjust according. You might need a alignment

Damn this has been on the rack twice already. Whenever I get my tires put on I'll have them check it. Last time I had them give it more toe out.

[redneck4Christ]

Subbed for future reference.

[Speed3eak]

FWIW, I got my alignment done at 19k miles - I had some slight toe-in, but IIRC it wasn't terrible. My tires should last until 25k but I also do a lot of highway driving.

Had the alignment changed to 0 toe in the front and 1/16 toe-in in the rear. Car follows the crown of the road a little more on the highway now, but it's a subtle difference. Camber was -1* front and -1.5* rear, +/- .1*

Big thank you to Nataphen for the suspension suggestions - I'm really happy with the new alignment settings.

I'd like to get a set of quality shocks (Bilstein B8) and springs (swift), but that's not in the budget right now.

[Todd98SE]

I'll bet you'll like a little more front and a little less rear camber.

[Speed3eak]

Originally Posted by Todd98SE I'll bet you'll like a little more front and a little less rear camber.

I'd like to, but I've heard there isn't enough adjustability in the stock suspension. Ideally, I'd have the setup the same as now, but with -1* of camber, front and rear.

I'm not entirely sure which products allow you to change the camber in the front of the car. I've seen someone post up spc camber bolts for the rear, which fit the C1-chassis ford focus. I have no idea whether they will work for the mazdaspeed 3 however.

I don't plan on getting coilovers, or going slammed, or what have you. When the stock suspension shits the bed I'm probably going to get Bilstein B8's and swift springs. I'd like FSDs, but I've heard bad things about the quality control on those particular struts.

[Todd98SE]

To adjust the fronts you need camber plates or slot the upper mount holes. For the rear you need camber arms, dont mess with camber bolts.

[ThizSpeed3]

Originally Posted by Todd98SE To adjust the fronts you need camber plates or slot the upper mount holes. For the rear you need camber arms, dont mess with camber bolts.

link to where we can purchase these

[Todd98SE]

Corksport for front camber plates. There are a million different makers of rear camber arms. When you donate I'll tell you how to use the search button.

[ibcrusn]

Originally Posted by ThizSpeed3 link to where we can purchase these

Ever heard of Bing or Google?

Bing
Google

Welcome to the interweb.

[Speed3eak]

I'll tell you how to use the search button for free

[Pedal-Force]

Got an alignment today. Front left toe went from -0.08 to 0.08. Front right from 0.21 to 0.09. Caster left/right stayed at -.7, -1.1.

Rear toe from -.09/.08 to 0.00/-0.01. Camber stayed at -2.1 both side.

Total toe from .13 to .17. Thrust angle went to 0.01.

I know fuck all about suspension. I know what toe and camber mean, but not what's good. I gave them the numbers that you guys said, but they said they didn't make much sense and would wear badly. I don't have what I told them, but it was what Nataphen had. 1/16 total front in?, 1/16 total toe out? rear. 1 camber front, -2.5 rear or something? Anyway, hopefully what they did is good.

I just put new tires on yesterday. I ended up getting 25k out of the stock tires. I forgot to look at the inside edge, but they seemed to be wearing relatively evenly all around. Hopefully the ExtremeContact DW I put on will last just as long or longer, while being stickier and better (and quieter?).

Anyway, just adding some data to the pile.

[Nliiitend1]

Are those your front caster values you've listed or are those camber values (I don't see front camber specified anywhere in your post)?

[Pedal-Force]

Sorry, camber. They didn't do anything or measure caster.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

[Nataphen]

If those are the specs you gave them, they're not at all what I recommended. For longest wear, I said:

0 front toe
1/16 rear toe IN

You need rear camber arms so you can set that between negative 1.0-1.5
Front camber needs to be more negative than rear. If you have a way to set front camber, try negative 1.5-2.5 depending on your driving style, but more negative than the rear at least. If you just lower your car and don't have front camber plates, the front camber is usually about -1.5. If that's the case, try setting the rear to -1.0 for starters.

[Pedal-Force]

So is 1.7 total front and 0 rear bad? They said what I told them would wear or something. I told them what you have early in thread (unless I messed it up, which is likely).

Originally Posted by Nataphen I've learned a lot about alignments since I've started working in a shop that does them day in and day out. I have since set my car up for 1/16 total toe out in front for turn in response, and 1/8 total toe in rear for rear stability. I need to get KW V3s and camber arms so that I can set up my camber and caster.

Is it worth another $90 to get it fixed? Is what I have decent? I just told them to do whatever they thought was best.

[Nataphen]

1/16 front toe out is for turn in response, 1/8 rear toe in is for hard braking stability. They aren't the best for tire life. The specs that I just mentioned in post #295 are probably the best for tire life.

[silvapain]

I'd go with 1/8" toe out in the rear to get the back end to rotate more, but that's me. I hate understeer, an don't care too much about tire life.


Tapadatass

[Nliiitend1]

Originally Posted by Pedal-Force Is it worth another $90 to get it fixed? Is what I have decent? I just told them to do whatever they thought was best.

There's your problem...

[Nliiitend1]

Originally Posted by silvapain I'd go with 1/8" toe out in the rear to get the back end to rotate more, but that's me. I hate understeer, an don't care too much about tire life. Tapadatass

Remember though that your rear toes IN under compression on the MS3 (even more than most cars), so if you start with rear toe OUT you'll be forcing a transition from toe OUT to toe IN while in the compression stroke (i.e., while you're turning) that can upset the balance of the car if you're not accustomed to it, and make your corner transitions a bit more unnecessarily dramatic than they need to be.

1/8" rear toe out (even if that is TOTAL and not per side) is a LOT on this car, IMO. The only time I think I'd personally go for that much is if I was setting the car up for slow-speed (i.e., conventional autocross) handling. For me, that would be way too much at track speeds.

[silvapain]

Originally Posted by Nliiitend1 Remember though that your rear toes IN under compression on the MS3 (even more than most cars), so if you start with rear toe OUT you'll be forcing a transition from toe OUT to toe IN while in the compression stroke (i.e., while you're turning) that can upset the balance of the car if you're not accustomed to it, and make your corner transitions a bit more unnecessarily dramatic than they need to be. 1/8" rear toe out (even if that is TOTAL and not per side) is a LOT on this car, IMO. The only time I think I'd personally go for that much is if I was setting the car up for slow-speed (i.e., conventional autocross) handling. For me, that would be way too much at track speeds.

I meant total toe out. Good points though.

[Nliiitend1]

Originally Posted by silvapain I meant total toe out. Good points though.

I would also like to clarify that depending on overall setup, one particular parameter (like toe, for instance) may be entirely appropriate under one but not the other, and that a lot of the finer points come down to driver preference and driving style as well with regard to what is "optimal" as far as alignment settings go.

If I were to change my rear toe settings to 1/8" total toe out without changing anything else on my current setup, I'd have a handful of a car, especially under braking and at speed.

[Spec]

Could use some advice. Currently at 6k miles. Inside of both front tires are destroyed.
Took it to dealer.

Recommendation was, alignment and two tires.
I guess they didn't remember my mileage because they wanted to charge me for both.

Here I am, two weeks later with out my car still and got a call denying my claim per " Mazda corporate" and all the sudden I no longer need an alignment as its " in the green"
I've got a lot of reading under my belt for warranty denials and disputes and a guy from mazda of N. America currently trying to figure out what's up. Any insight would be appreciated. What would you do?

[Nliiitend1]

Ask them for your exact current settings.

Do not settle for "in the green."

That would be the first thing I'd do.

[Spec]

When I dropped it off I told him I wanted a print out. When they called me and said I needed the alignment and tires and I argued the fact of mileage the service wasn't performed. I then Left work to talk face to face with the guy and asked for my requested print out of my specs, to no avail it didn't happen.

As we were talking the mechanic shop foreman walked over and the advisor said" I told him I could cover the alignment under warranty" and my reply was " why would I want my car aligned with the tires fucked off like that"
He said it didn't matter and the shop foreman and I both looked at him like he just had just farted. The foreman replied " uh.... Yes it does" and then the resolution for that day was they'd call corporate to get an approval for tires.

Now as I said before, after having had an alignment recommended when I was to pay for it, now I don't need one and the tire wear is from my driving habits.

[mizboo102]

I agree with Nliiitend1. Ask them what your exact specs are and then post them here.

Are you the first owner? How long have you had the car?

IIRC, my car came with some sort of tire warranty, check that out. Although, I think it might just cover bubbling and manufacturer defects.

Did your car pull to one side or was your steering wheel offset when driving straight?

[Spec]

Yea, I tried to get the exact specs from the get go. They're basically fucking me around. I'm the first owner. Car has 6k miles total.

Car drifted left-right at highway speeds.

Tech stated tires have a warranty, granted its prorated. I don't want to have to come out of pocket 1 cent for tires after owning it for 4 months.

[Spec]

Originally Posted by Nliiitend1 Ask them for your exact current settings. Do not settle for "in the green." That would be the first thing I'd do.

Once I have the exact measurements, and even if they're in the "green" wouldn't Mazda claim that their end is good or within spec or would I have a leg to stand on?

Also, I'm no alignment expert but, wouldn't the actual alignment be off anyhow due to the tires being fubar?

[Ten2Four]

This was my inside wear @ 25K. Thought I had another 5K left in the tires but I went ahead and replaced them. Going in for an alignment shortly as the car is pulling hard left now

[qweedqwag]

Inside tire wear could also be from to much negetive camber.

[edspeed3]

Originally Posted by Ten2Four This was my inside wear @ 25K. Thought I had another 5K left in the tires but I went ahead and replaced them. Going in for an alignment shortly as the car is pulling hard left now

That is pretty much from toe in. I had that problem on my car too after 25k miles. These cars stock come with quite a bit toe to have nice sharp turn in rates. There's not much you can do except correct the toe in at an alignment place to 0 or as near 0 as possible leaning toward the negative end.

Sent from cmx evo4gLTE

[2k4_8]

Originally Posted by qweedqwag Inside tire wear could also be from to much negetive camber.

Which we know isn't the issue when lowering only puts you at 1.5 degrees and stock is less than 1.

[Spec]

Going to check into some things.

[greatdane68]

Originally Posted by 2k4_8 Which we know isn't the issue when lowering only puts you at 1.5 degrees and stock is less than 1.

My rear camber was sitting at -2.4 after I lowered my car. Fixed that though.

[Hokie D]

I know most of you have your cars lowered, but what's the max camber adjustment you can get out of the stock suspension? From reading this thread I'm shooting for these settings on stock suspension:

Front
0" to 1/16" total toe "out" (turn-in)
0* steer ahead
-1.5 to -2.5* (should be more than rear, need front camber plates??)

Rear
1/16" to 1/8" total toe "in" (braking stability)
0* thrust angle
-1.0 to -1.5* (rear camber arms??)

Do I need camber arms/front camber plates on stock suspension? And would I even be able to get close to these settings without lowering the car?

[greatdane68]

You'll definitely need camber arms for the rear. Don't know about the front though. I think mine was 1.6 without camber plates.

[Nliiitend1]

Originally Posted by Hokie D Front 0" to 1/16" total toe "out" (turn-in) 0* steer ahead -1.5 to -2.5* (should be more than rear, need front camber plates??) Rear 1/16" to 1/8" total toe "in" (braking stability) 0* thrust angle -1.0 to -1.5* (rear camber arms??) Do I need camber arms/front camber plates on stock suspension? And would I even be able to get close to these settings without lowering the car?

Arguably, "yes" to the first question and "not likely" to the second (at least regarding front camber)...

[moonrider_99]

this should be a sticky.

Question, why toe OUT in the front? I thought on a FWD drive car, it's best to have some toe IN since the car pulls the suspension as opposed to a RWD where it pushes the car... TOE should correct this flex in the suspension due to the drivetrain layout.