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 Old 09-10-2012, 03:42 PM   #1
 
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Default Blow Through MAF

Ok so i will say i tried searching a tad but putting anything with "MAF" in the search bar is just asking for a cluster fuck haha.

Well heres the dirty, im currently on a big turbo and i loved my ETS but im thinking with all the perks of 5th ports and such it was starting to become a limiting factor so i bought some ebay pipes and a treadstone core to do a frontmount.

I plan on switching to a blow through style MAF for the several advantages i see but just wanted to chart this here in case anyone knows any other added benefits or snags i have not thought of. Thanks.

So i plan on running 2.5" pipe for the hotside (turbo to intercooler) and 2.5" for the first half of the cold side, which will route straight up through where peoples CAI's typically reside in the driver side fender, then hook a 90 and (more or less) shoot straight across into the throttle body. What i hope this will do is give me a long straight straight for accurate airflow to the MAF sensor, and give me space for the MAF housing and 5th port injector boss.

Now that straight section will be 2.5" up until a point and then the ...hmmm 12-14" before the throttle body will be 3". This should allow me to maintain my MAF housing size for 400+ whp capabilities and have a smooth transition into the throttle body. Im wanting to run 3" from the MAF all the way to the throttle body because i want to avoid a step down, basically 2.5" pipe -> 3" MAF housing -> 2.5" pipe -> 5th port injector. Thats just going to be a mess, so straight 3" pipe from the MAF to throttle body, and i doubt that small bit of pipe will cause any noticeable amount of lag, plus i feel avoiding a step down after the MAF will prevent back-pressure from creating screwy readings in the MAF .

Switching to blow through will also allow me to run straight VTA which makes making custom intercooler pipes much easier because i dont have to worry about flanging the BOV just right for recirculation, i just buy a v-band flanged pipe / bov and stick it on the hot side and bam, problem solved. Also, getting the MAF out of the intake allows me to run a 4" intake, may be overkill for the gt3071r but i figure it sure as hell cant hurt, and pipe is pretty cheap. A 4" intake may not exactly make more power but if it helped with efficiency, maybe spool, or hell just sounded cool or had a little wow factor when you pop the hood id be hard pressed to say im disappointed.

ok well i believe this is my to-do list ladies and gentlemen, i am self tuning with very helpful eyes looking over my shoulder, but i believe this process of tuning this set up should be the same. i still have a 3" housing reading a volume of air and am adding fuel accordingly, so if anyone knows something i don't i am open to advice / suggestions. Thanks.
@mrmonk7663 if anything useful pops up in this thread.
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 Old 09-10-2012, 03:58 PM   #2
 
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I have been trying to figure out a decent pipe route for this purpose I fould that the cooling hose that rests on the CPE cold pipe will need to be re routed. I also think that long pipe is going to be difficult due to the frame rail to throttle body distance is maybe 15.5 to 16 inches. I also am try to run a 3.5 MAf pipe
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 Old 09-10-2012, 04:07 PM   #3
 
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 Old 09-10-2012, 04:08 PM   #4
 
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Originally Posted by uncorked11 View Post
I have been trying to figure out a decent pipe route for this purpose I fould that the cooling hose that rests on the CPE cold pipe will need to be re routed. I also think that long pipe is going to be difficult due to the frame rail to throttle body distance is maybe 15.5 to 16 inches. I also am try to run a 3.5 MAf pipe
yeah its shit like this i was talking about since i havent actually received my pipes yet and this is just from staring at the engine going "...that should work" haha. i may just have to run the IC pipes on the inside of the frame rail instead of the outside where the CAI's go like i originally stated.

Originally Posted by anavrinIV View Post
yeah i imagine he's on blow through since he's LTA right? i remember seeing his thread a while back.
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Last edited by Voltwings; 09-10-2012 at 04:08 PM. Reason: MSF Database - Automerged Doublepost
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 Old 09-10-2012, 04:17 PM   #5
 
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Originally Posted by Voltwings View Post
yeah its shit like this i was talking about since i haven't actually received my pipes yet and this is just from staring at the engine going "...that should work" haha. i may just have to run the IC pipes on the inside of the frame rail instead of the outside where the CAI's go like i originally stated.
I looked at that too, the issue I found is there is roughly a usable 11 inches of pipe, where is was looking for a few more. I plan to also run a 5th port.

The pic below is a 10 inch cardboard pipe. I don't like the sudden 90* top coupler even with adding a maf honey comb. I think it will create too much turbulence.
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 Old 09-10-2012, 04:44 PM   #6
 
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hmm you're right, thats maybe 5-6" max before the MAF and then the MAF would be right next to the 5th port and i'd hoped to have a little space between them... I know the MAF can go in the hot pipe but id like to keep it in the cold pipe if at all possible. I know that turbo mustangs will put the MAF in the intercooler cold side outlet, maybe an immediate post intercooler MAF housing would work. This however creates the issue i was hoping to avoid which is placing a 2.5" reduction right after the MAF and i just have a feeling that a bottleneck will cause goofy readings in the MAF. Granted i doubt i'm maxing out the 2.5" pipe maybe its not a bottleneck...
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 Old 09-10-2012, 04:50 PM   #7
 
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I have a few other ideas I am looking at trying, I have already moved my bov to the hot side. with a 3 inch or smaller pipe you may be able to between the fender and frame rail and gain about 4 inches. the other options are reverse the traditional hot pipe and cold pipe entry and exit then just run a long striaght back across the front and up to the TB.
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 Old 09-10-2012, 06:09 PM   #8
 
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mmm ok, well my pipes got here today but between work and night school im a bit preoccupied but hopefully i can make some progress on this and we can see whats up.
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 Old 09-10-2012, 07:58 PM   #9
 
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its late at night and im have already taken my melotonin so ill post more tomorrow just in case im dreaming this.... my experience with blow through is 1. its amazing 2. vta is awesome 3. dont have have to worry about not being able to run if you blow off pipes 4. allows you to put a filter on the turbo and 0 intake resistance, and better throttle response. More cfms so long as you can tune for it and add fuel means more power! here is a thread i was working on, but in my case i was trying to accomplish this without a tune. http://www.mazdaspeedforums.org/forum/f11/blow-through-maf-121189/ Basically you will just need a maf pipe to your size preference 2.75in in dia up to even 3.5 i believe, and maf air straightener(search) and read), make sure you have a good 6 to 10 in pre TB and a good 6 to 10 in from the last bend pre maf and a FMIC setup of course. Looks like you have a solid plan I cant wait to hear the rave reviews. As soon as I get my AP ill go back to blow through. It was amazing just wasnt perfect without the tune. Good luck and post pics and vids
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 Old 09-10-2012, 08:14 PM   #10
 
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Originally Posted by ESB Jiu JItsu View Post
its late at night and im have already taken my melotonin so ill post more tomorrow just in case im dreaming this.... my experience with blow through is 1. its amazing 2. vta is awesome 3. dont have have to worry about not being able to run if you blow off pipes 4. allows you to put a filter on the turbo and 0 intake resistance, and better throttle response. More cfms so long as you can tune for it and add fuel means more power! here is a thread i was working on, but in my case i was trying to accomplish this without a tune. http://www.mazdaspeedforums.org/forum/f11/blow-through-maf-121189/ Basically you will just need a maf pipe to your size preference 2.75in in dia up to even 3.5 i believe, and maf air straightener(search) and read), make sure you have a good 6 to 10 in pre TB and a good 6 to 10 in from the last bend pre maf and a FMIC setup of course. Looks like you have a solid plan I cant wait to hear the rave reviews. As soon as I get my AP ill go back to blow through. It was amazing just wasnt perfect without the tune. Good luck and post pics and vids
I watched your progress, i'm glad it worked out. I didn't hear from anyone that put effort into it that it turned out like shit.
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 Old 09-10-2012, 08:15 PM   #11
 
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just found this.

MAF Relocation Kit

also @ESB Jiu JItsu I may have given you some bad info before. the IAT sensor is built into the MAF on this car. fuck me and my bad info. It looks like your shit would have been fine (except for the MAF sizing change...that still needs to be tuned for)
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 Old 09-10-2012, 08:17 PM   #12
 
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@ESB Jiu JItsu Nice Darce!

Originally Posted by ESB Jiu JItsu View Post
its late at night and im have already taken my melotonin so ill post more tomorrow just in case im dreaming this.... my experience with blow through is 1. its amazing 2. vta is awesome 3. dont have have to worry about not being able to run if you blow off pipes 4. allows you to put a filter on the turbo and 0 intake resistance, and better throttle response. More cfms so long as you can tune for it and add fuel means more power! here is a thread i was working on, but in my case i was trying to accomplish this without a tune. http://www.mazdaspeedforums.org/forum/f11/blow-through-maf-121189/ Basically you will just need a maf pipe to your size preference 2.75in in dia up to even 3.5 i believe, and maf air straightener(search) and read), make sure you have a good 6 to 10 in pre TB and a good 6 to 10 in from the last bend pre maf and a FMIC setup of course. Looks like you have a solid plan I cant wait to hear the rave reviews. As soon as I get my AP ill go back to blow through. It was amazing just wasnt perfect without the tune. Good luck and post pics and vids
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 Old 09-10-2012, 08:27 PM   #13
 
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Originally Posted by anavrinIV View Post
just found this.

MAF Relocation Kit

also @ESB Jiu JItsu I may have given you some bad info before. the IAT sensor is built into the MAF on this car. fuck me and my bad info. It looks like your shit would have been fine (except for the MAF sizing change...that still needs to be tuned for)
yeah you will have to adjust your IAT tables i believe because the car will think its heatsoaked since its reading hotter temps at any one time in the charge pipes??
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 Old 09-10-2012, 08:48 PM   #14
 
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Originally Posted by Voltwings View Post
yeah you will have to adjust your IAT tables i believe because the car will think its heatsoaked since its reading hotter temps at any one time in the charge pipes??
something like that I guess. but having the IAT in the MAF makes it all very easy. I was thinking you'd need a different sensor but not so.
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Originally Posted by Todd98SE View Post
@ESB Jiu JItsu Nice Darce!

YOU SIR JUST MADE MY MORNING!!!!!!

Originally Posted by anavrinIV View Post
something like that I guess. but having the IAT in the MAF makes it all very easy. I was thinking you'd need a different sensor but not so.
No need to adjust ait sensor it will just read boost temps now pre TB. what it will show you is how much your BAt sensor heat soaks from the intake manifold. It will make you want a IM Spacer!!!! But you will just need to calibrate for the new location because even if you use the stock size draw through maf size it will still read higher air density in the blow through location which will make the computer think its a larger maf. Without a AP to tune I couldnt really get into that aspect. I was re-sizing the maf using a old school technique that did not apply to this system. There are a lot of people on the forum going blow through...... i know i ran across a few calibration threads where that was mixed in the conversation. If i can find them i will post


Originally Posted by anavrinIV View Post
just found this.

MAF Relocation Kit

also @ESB Jiu JItsu I may have given you some bad info before. the IAT sensor is built into the MAF on this car. fuck me and my bad info. It looks like your shit would have been fine (except for the MAF sizing change...that still needs to be tuned for)

Well either way I was aware the sensor was in the maf. i was able to trick it into reading different temps to allow me to tune the a/f ratios SLIGHTLY but not enough to effect the changes of the blow through. But i only had to approach it this way due to my lack of AP lol But i sure tried! And no boom boom! Learned a lot. LIKE I WANT TO BE BACK BLOW THROUGH ASAP! lol I miss it so. Even not being able to go wot was almost worth it honestly lol. and thats just crazy! But im back draw through.....for now....
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 Old 09-11-2012, 06:12 AM   #16
 
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mods delete
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 Old 09-11-2012, 07:53 AM   #17
 
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Originally Posted by ESB Jiu JItsu View Post
YOU SIR JUST MADE MY MORNING!!!!!!



No need to adjust ait sensor it will just read boost temps now pre TB. what it will show you is how much your BAt sensor heat soaks from the intake manifold. It will make you want a IM Spacer!!!! But you will just need to calibrate for the new location because even if you use the stock size draw through maf size it will still read higher air density in the blow through location which will make the computer think its a larger maf. Without a AP to tune I couldnt really get into that aspect. I was re-sizing the maf using a old school technique that did not apply to this system. There are a lot of people on the forum going blow through...... i know i ran across a few calibration threads where that was mixed in the conversation. If i can find them i will post




Well either way I was aware the sensor was in the maf. i was able to trick it into reading different temps to allow me to tune the a/f ratios SLIGHTLY but not enough to effect the changes of the blow through. But i only had to approach it this way due to my lack of AP lol But i sure tried! And no boom boom! Learned a lot. LIKE I WANT TO BE BACK BLOW THROUGH ASAP! lol I miss it so. Even not being able to go wot was almost worth it honestly lol. and thats just crazy! But im back draw through.....for now....
what exactly did you notice in terms of advantages? if it's just the VTA portion, I have no problem running that with the draw through
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 Old 09-11-2012, 08:19 AM   #18
 
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Originally Posted by ESB Jiu JItsu View Post
YOU SIR JUST MADE MY MORNING!!!!!!
Purple under Jeremy Barden/Saulo Ribeiro. If you are hitting that from top half guard you're going to get swept. I could talk BJJ for hours but I don't want to derail your thread.
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 Old 09-11-2012, 08:54 AM   #19
 
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Maybe i am way off base here but i dont understand why you need to make a special section of the pipe larger for the MAF sensor. I understand before the turbo the larger maf pipe allows for more air to come into the system. But if you already have a 3"+ sized intake before the turbo you are going to get that amount of air into your sytem, and that same amount is going to flow through the 2.5" pipe just at a higher velocity than a 3" pipe, but the same amount of air is there. I guess i dont understand why the MAF needs to be in a larger pipe to register the proper amount of air that is being pushed through the pipe.

Sorry if this is way off just trying to understand
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 Old 09-11-2012, 12:39 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by anavrinIV View Post
just found this.

MAF Relocation Kit

also @ESB Jiu JItsu I may have given you some bad info before. the IAT sensor is built into the MAF on this car. fuck me and my bad info. It looks like your shit would have been fine (except for the MAF sizing change...that still needs to be tuned for)
What exactly is in this kit? it almost sounds like just couplers

EDIT: I think it is just couplers, pretty much cut into your pipes and stick in a maf housing.
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 Old 09-11-2012, 01:18 PM   #21
 
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Originally Posted by Deldran View Post
Maybe i am way off base here but i dont understand why you need to make a special section of the pipe larger for the MAF sensor. I understand before the turbo the larger maf pipe allows for more air to come into the system. But if you already have a 3"+ sized intake before the turbo you are going to get that amount of air into your sytem, and that same amount is going to flow through the 2.5" pipe just at a higher velocity than a 3" pipe, but the same amount of air is there. I guess i dont understand why the MAF needs to be in a larger pipe to register the proper amount of air that is being pushed through the pipe.

Sorry if this is way off just trying to understand
the MAF reads based on voltage, as more air comes through, the voltage increases. Once you hit 5.0 volts in your stock sized MAF what do you do? Get a larger MAF housing, and rescale it, so at any given voltage it can read more airflow and add fuel accordingly. It would be impossible for me to hit 400+ whp with my MAF in 2.5" pipe for that reason.

Originally Posted by dantes5823 View Post
What exactly is in this kit? it almost sounds like just couplers

EDIT: I think it is just couplers, pretty much cut into your pipes and stick in a maf housing.
it is, i went to autozone and bought 2 spectre 2.5" - 3" reducers for $20 lol, no thanks streetunit.
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 Old 09-11-2012, 01:22 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by Voltwings View Post
the MAF reads based on voltage, as more air comes through, the voltage increases. Once you hit 5.0 volts in your stock sized MAF what do you do? Get a larger MAF housing, and rescale it, so at any given voltage it can read more airflow and add fuel accordingly. It would be impossible for me to hit 400+ whp with my MAF in 2.5" pipe for that reason.



it is, i went to autozone and bought 2 spectre 2.5" - 3" reducers for $20 lol, no thanks streetunit.
are you just gonna stick in your maf housing into your pipes?
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 Old 09-11-2012, 01:25 PM   #23
 
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Originally Posted by dantes5823 View Post
are you just gonna stick in your maf housing into your pipes?
read OP... thats what a blow through set up is. I'm not meaning to be a smart ass if you're not sure what that is and ill hapily explain but if you didnt read then i have no sympathy haha.
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 Old 09-11-2012, 01:32 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Voltwings View Post
read OP... thats what a blow through set up is. I'm not meaning to be a smart ass if you're not sure what that is and ill hapily explain but if you didnt read then i have no sympathy haha.
Well i thought you needed a long piece of whatever size pipe you want for you maf and have it in there. not just a small section of it.

EDit: ok i read your idea. Simple enough.
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 Old 09-11-2012, 01:42 PM   #25
 
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Originally Posted by dantes5823 View Post
Well i thought you needed a long piece of whatever size pipe you want for you maf and have it in there. not just a small section of it.

EDit: ok i read your idea. Simple enough.
in theory haha, we'll see how it goes in application when i start trying to fit all this shit in there.
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 Old 09-11-2012, 01:50 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Voltwings View Post
in theory haha, we'll see how it goes in application when i start trying to fit all this shit in there.
and drive ability
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 Old 09-11-2012, 01:52 PM   #27
 
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treadstone has everything you'd need to do this swap as far as I can see...3.5" denso maf housing, silicone reducers, air straightener...would be simple to get stuff through them.

I also looked through ATR and didn't see an IAT correction table so I guess it's safe to assume that the ecu will just go with what it's given. I think that the IAT is some kind of RTD sensor so it should be pretty good to go.
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 Old 09-11-2012, 02:04 PM   #28
 
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going to a blow through set up is a fairly common occurrence on turbocharged applications, drivability should not be impacted negatively. If anything, it will be improved because the airflow sensor is right before the throttle body so its a precise reading.
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 Old 09-11-2012, 02:43 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by Voltwings View Post
going to a blow through set up is a fairly common occurrence on turbocharged applications, drivability should not be impacted negatively. If anything, it will be improved because the airflow sensor is right before the throttle body so its a precise reading.
well hurry up and do it lol
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 Old 09-11-2012, 03:15 PM   #30
 
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Originally Posted by dantes5823 View Post
well hurry up and do it lol
we're using the guy with the welders garage this weekend for a BT instal so im next in line, either this weekend if we can squeeze it in, or next weekend.
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 Old 09-11-2012, 03:33 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by Voltwings View Post
we're using the guy with the welders garage this weekend for a BT instal so im next in line, either this weekend if we can squeeze it in, or next weekend.
so next week lol
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 Old 09-13-2012, 09:55 PM   #32
 
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i appologize my iphone is old and the lens is scratched but heres some updates for yall, so far so good, but this was as far as i could go without cutting anything so i decided that was a good place to stop for the night.

First off, as with all FMIC installs, the coolant line will have to be re routed some how on the cold side, its pushed out of the way pretty hard core right now.

Also, i think i can safely say my original game plan of going through the drivers side fender is working quite well, and ive ended up with what i will call a comfortable 12" before the MAF with room for a 5th port injector boss afterwards.

This ebay kit has WAY more than enough pipe to do an instal so id say go for it, hopefully will have the rest cut and mocked and/or welded by the end of this weekend, if not early next week.
@rfinkle2 you were asking about pics...
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 Old 09-13-2012, 10:11 PM   #33
 
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Originally Posted by Voltwings View Post
i appologize my iphone is old and the lens is scratched but heres some updates for yall, so far so good, but this was as far as i could go without cutting anything so i decided that was a good place to stop for the night.

First off, as with all FMIC installs, the coolant line will have to be re routed some how on the cold side, its pushed out of the way pretty hard core right now.

Also, i think i can safely say my original game plan of going through the drivers side fender is working quite well, and ive ended up with what i will call a comfortable 12" before the MAF with room for a 5th port injector boss afterwards.

This ebay kit has WAY more than enough pipe to do an instal so id say go for it, hopefully will have the rest cut and mocked and/or welded by the end of this weekend, if not early next week.

It looks good but the pipe just looks so small. The extra length in the pipe dantes was talk about is to allow the air to settle. When it comes off the corners before the MAF it can be turblant, after the maf you want it far enough away from the TB plate that when said plate closes abruptly it does backdraft across the MAF skewing the reading according to what I read on here and elsewhere. Any way kept up the good work I'm interested to hear your impressions. Are you running an air straightener?
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 Old 09-13-2012, 10:25 PM   #34
 
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Originally Posted by uncorked11 View Post
It looks good but the pipe just looks so small. The extra length in the pipe dantes was talk about is to allow the air to settle. When it comes off the corners before the MAF it can be turblant, after the maf you want it far enough away from the TB plate that when said plate closes abruptly it does backdraft across the MAF skewing the reading according to what I read on here and elsewhere. Any way kept up the good work I'm interested to hear your impressions. Are you running an air straightener?
Thats 2.5" pipe, its probably just the angle of the picture and i'm aware that the air needs to settle pre MAF but i didn't think about the throttle body... I didn't have to cut the pipes to have the MAF sitting where it is but if i move it any further from the TB its going to be a lot closer to that 90* which will more than likely lead to some turbulence. When i was running in draw through ( stock location ) MAF i had a honey comb in place but i was trying to see if i could get around using it in this set up, if i need to throw it on its not a terribly big deal but i'd like to call it plan B as i'm not sure how well it would respond to heat / boost. Who knows, but ill take these things into consideration, thanks.

Edit: well hang on now i've just had a thought, with the BOV being like 1 ft from the turbo, when i let off the throttle, the pipes are going to be almost emptied of pressure, so i don't know that a super huge "back draft" will be an issue. This is all speculation until it gets down too it but i'm certainly open for discussion, someone has to know more about this than i seem to think i do haha.
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 Old 09-13-2012, 10:31 PM   #35
 
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Originally Posted by Voltwings View Post
Thats 2.5" pipe, its probably just the angle of the picture and i'm aware that the air needs to settle pre MAF but i didn't think about the throttle body... I didn't have to cut the pipes to have the MAF sitting where it is but if i move it any further from the TB its going to be a lot closer to that 90* which will more than likely lead to some turbulence. When i was running in draw through ( stock location ) MAF i had a honey comb in place but i was trying to see if i could get around using it in this set up, if i need to throw it on its not a terribly big deal but i'd like to call it plan B as i'm not sure how well it would respond to heat / boost. Who knows, but ill take these things into consideration, thanks.
No worries, I was just thinking pipe size wise you may want a bigger MAF portion Pipe, ESP. since you will be able to add the 5th port fuel.
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 Old 09-13-2012, 10:40 PM   #36
 
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Originally Posted by uncorked11 View Post
No worries, I was just thinking pipe size wise you may want a bigger MAF portion Pipe, ESP. since you will be able to add the 5th port fuel.
Ooooh yes, that black coupler is a 2.5 - 3 step up, it's 3" from MAF housing to throttle body.
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 Old 09-13-2012, 10:47 PM   #37
 
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Originally Posted by Voltwings View Post
Ooooh yes, that black coupler is a 2.5 - 3 step up, it's 3" from MAF housing to throttle body.
Oh cool, the pic is deceiving then.
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 Old 09-13-2012, 11:29 PM   #38
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Everything you need to know about blow through for our platform can be answered by djuosnteisn. @JacksonMS30 is currently running this kit right now, with no issues.


Here is the 5th port and blow throw. hope this helps you OP.

http://www.mazdaspeedforums.org/foru...4/#post1446042
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 Old 09-13-2012, 11:59 PM   #39
 
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FWIW, I seem to recall reading somewhere that your concern over the MAF's proximity to the throttle plate is valid.

It said something like TB, small section of pipe to BOV, long section of pipe, sensor, long section of pipe, other shit. If you're doing 5th port, the boss would be between the TB and BOV obviously but anyways that's supposed to be for the best readings.

I'm going to bed now.
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 Old 09-14-2012, 03:45 AM   #40
 
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An option for rerouting that coolant line away from the cold pipe here:

(Thanks for the pics btw)

Gates Unicoil - when curved/molded hose isn't available. - Hose - Products | Gates Corporation
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