Blow Through MAF

[ESB Jiu JItsu]

Yes i would want a longer maf pipe in general, more distance away from the TB and a air straightener pre maf about 2 to 3 in away would make for a nice transition. Also clocking the maf to the laminar flow path has been know to help in other setups and also helped mine. Looks like your on the right path!

[JacksonMS30]

The only issue I've been having with blow through is the air flow can get a little rough at WOT. I think a straightener will take care of it though. Other than that very tiny issue, it has been great. Especially when I blew an intercooler coupler on the highway and was able to drive the 5 miles back to the shop to fix it. lol!

[anavrinIV]

Originally Posted by JacksonMS30 The only issue I've been having with blow through is the air flow can get a little rough at WOT. I think a straightener will take care of it though. Other than that very tiny issue, it has been great. Especially when I blew an intercooler coupler on the highway and was able to drive the 5 miles back to the shop to fix it. lol!

what did you do in terms of tuning for air density? Or did you just scale the MAF and go with it? This is the only part I'm fuzzy on right now, for the rest I have a plan

[JacksonMS30]

Originally Posted by anavrinIV what did you do in terms of tuning for air density? Or did you just scale the MAF and go with it? This is the only part I'm fuzzy on right now, for the rest I have a plan

You just scale the MAF. There is no difference really. Air is going past the MAF sensor, its reading it and adjusting fuel accordingly. Blow through just changes the location of the sensor to be placed after the turbo.

[anavrinIV]

Originally Posted by JacksonMS30 You just scale the MAF. There is no difference really. Air is going past the MAF sensor, its reading it and adjusting fuel accordingly. Blow through just changes the location of the sensor to be placed after the turbo.

That's what I thought and hoped. I have a plan for pipe routing that should give me a good length for air straightening and still have good distance to the TB. Now to find a job and actually get things done...

[JacksonMS30]

Originally Posted by anavrinIV That's what I thought and hoped. I have a plan for pipe routing that should give me a good length for air straightening and still have good distance to the TB. Now to find a job and actually get things done...

How are you planning to route the piping?

[anavrinIV]

Originally Posted by JacksonMS30 How are you planning to route the piping?

I'm going to try to go from the turbo to the IC on the driver's side with at BOV on the hotside, then from the passenger's side do a U pipe and go straight in front of the engine (long enough straight for the MAF) then hook back and up to the TB. Not the shortest routing, but seems a bit more "ideal" in terms of spacing for the cold side components.

[Voltwings]

i have been advised against running an air straightener in the positive pressure stream because it is "a restriction" "they dont handle boost / heat very well" yada yada but of couse a lot of people just like to talk out of their ass. I appreciate everyones input very much but forgive me if i dont adhere strictly to it, i am simply on a bit of a time crunch to get things done this weekend so i may just have to wing it and hope for the best ;P

Originally Posted by anavrinIV I'm going to try to go from the turbo to the IC on the driver's side with at BOV on the hotside, then from the passenger's side do a U pipe and go straight in front of the engine (long enough straight for the MAF) then hook back and up to the TB. Not the shortest routing, but seems a bit more "ideal" in terms of spacing for the cold side components.

hmm not a bad idea, but yeah maybe a tad extra pipe. A buddy of mine just ( lol "just") extended his MAF harness and put his MAF in the long section of hot pipe that goes down between the radiator and the block on most IC pipes for our car. Very long straight section, but i was really hoping to keep my MAF out of the hotside if at all possible, apparently its not a big deal but just personal preference.

Originally Posted by JacksonMS30 You just scale the MAF. There is no difference really. Air is going past the MAF sensor, its reading it and adjusting fuel accordingly. Blow through just changes the location of the sensor to be placed after the turbo.

ok people keep saying scale the MAF but i guess im not understanding the logic. At any given point when more air is entering the air stream the MAF simply reads a higher voltage and adds fuel accordingly. With the air stream being denser would the MAF just not be reading a higher voltage at all times so no scaling should be needed?

obviously it is beause everyone keeps saying that but if someone could just explain it for me please.

[anavrinIV]

Originally Posted by Voltwings i have been advised against running an air straightener in the positive pressure stream because it is "a restriction" "they dont handle boost / heat very well" yada yada but of couse a lot of people just like to talk out of their ass. I appreciate everyones input very much but forgive me if i dont adhere strictly to it, i am simply on a bit of a time crunch to get things done this weekend so i may just have to wing it and hope for the best ;P hmm not a bad idea, but yeah maybe a tad extra pipe. A buddy of mine just ( lol "just") extended his MAF harness and put his MAF in the long section of hot pipe that goes down between the radiator and the block on most IC pipes for our car. Very long straight section, but i was really hoping to keep my MAF out of the hotside if at all possible, apparently its not a big deal but just personal preference.

running it in the hotside may allow you to run a smaller MAF housing since the hotter air will cool the MAF less (think maxing the MAF in winter vs. having it work fine in summer), but I'm not sure that it's the best idea.

[Mizzle]

I dunno if it would fit, but I woke up with a thought. Get one of those cores that has the input & output on the same side, then run a really long pipe across the bottom/back/wherever for your maf sensor. Assuming there's room I mean.

[anavrinIV]

Originally Posted by Mizzle I dunno if it would fit, but I woke up with a thought. Get one of those cores that has the input & output on the same side, then run a really long pipe across the bottom/back/wherever for your maf sensor. Assuming there's room I mean.

only problem is IC height. I'm doing mine without cutting the crash bar, but a vertical IC would require me to do it since they're a minimum of 11" total height.

Now, there's an option like the treadstone tr82 if you want to go that route, but again, I want to leave my crash bar in tact since I can

[JacksonMS30]

Originally Posted by anavrinIV I'm going to try to go from the turbo to the IC on the driver's side with at BOV on the hotside, then from the passenger's side do a U pipe and go straight in front of the engine (long enough straight for the MAF) then hook back and up to the TB. Not the shortest routing, but seems a bit more "ideal" in terms of spacing for the cold side components.

That is how mine is setup. Its not really any extra pipeing and allows for the longest straightest MAF location.

Originally Posted by Voltwings ok people keep saying scale the MAF but i guess im not understanding the logic. At any given point when more air is entering the air stream the MAF simply reads a higher voltage and adds fuel accordingly. With the air stream being denser would the MAF just not be reading a higher voltage at all times so no scaling should be needed? obviously it is beause everyone keeps saying that but if someone could just explain it for me please.

I'm sorry, by scale I meant calibrate. As in do a MAF cal as with anytime you change something around the MAF. Our MAF is capable of reading the denser air and accounting for it.

[anavrinIV]

When i say scale the maf i mean account for the difference in diameter (if you're changing it). A calicration will still be necessary afterward, but you have to get the basis down first

[Voltwings]

yes im already scaled for the 3" but yes i do plan on doing a recallibration. i had originally wanted to go with a same sided intercooler, similar to Full-Race because it would be super bad ass but as anavrinIV stated the shortest one i could find was like 12" tall and i would like to keep some sort of Crash bar in tact. Also im not looking to spend any more out of pocket, i was able to sell my ETS and 2nd hand meth kit for enough to cover this intercooler and then some so id like to still come out ahead haha.

[rfinkle2]

I don't want to shit up the thread, but Forge makes an intercooler that sounds exactly like the ticket for this set-up.

Assuming they would sell you the core only:

[Mizzle]

Like these:





Then do this, but obviously on the same side going opposite:

[Voltwings]

Nah its all good, id like this to be a comprehensive blow through MAF thread if thats what it ends up turning into any and all input is appreciated, but where was this two weeks ago when i ordered this shit though Fink haha just kidding.

www.frozenboost.com also sells very comprehensive LTA kits that i had seriously considered but the TR8L was a proven core so i figured it was better to stop before i got too ambitious haha.

[Voltwings]

Just kidding haha, pipes are finished and car is running, trims seem to be ... stable for the most part at idle haha but it looks like it will need a tweak or two. Ill have more comprehensive pics of the pipes and their routes in the AM, as well as the brackets ill be making to hold the core in place. All in all this setup was retarded simple haha, i didnt even use 4 pieces of the Ebay kit, and i only had to make 4 cuts and will only need 2, maybe 3 sections welded together (currently held on with clamps so car is still drivable as is). I guess ill need to get more to Tuning once its running though since this is in the ECU section

[dantes5823]

Very nice. Can't wait for pics and results.

[Voltwings]

ok heres the final install pics, i have an 8 page paper to write tomorrow so tuning will commence monday, it seems to be what was mentioned a few posts up by JacksonMS30 when you're daily driving it seems to do ok, but the second i tried to floor it haha it was a cluster fuck haha, we'll see whats up next week though.

Thanks for everyones input on this thread, i highly suggest this intercooler route to anyone because it was incredibly simple. The only thing you really would benefit from having done else where is i had an exhaust shop torch my crash bar, and realistically i should have that pipe welded on the cold side so i can eliminate that middle coupler but ehh one thing at a time. Also, note the little trick with the painters tape to make sure you get a straight cut on the pipe, its a nifty little trick.

[ESB Jiu JItsu]

yeah it will have you hitting some sort of load cut before wot can be reached due to the increased density of air flow the maf is seeing. Thats exactly what happened to me. except i couldnt proceed with tuning but will soon. The ap fund is growing so long as we dont need food to eat with anytime soon Ill have an AP super fast! lol

[uncorked11]

Voltwings did you happen to datalog while driving around? I'm interested to see what the car is doing.

[Voltwings]

Originally Posted by uncorked11 Voltwings did you happen to datalog while driving around? I'm interested to see what the car is doing.

i did not, we finished at 11:30 saturday night and just drove down the road to a bar and i was mainly concerned with AFR and boost. Im going to load up a base map before i go to the gym here in a bit and see what it does, then ill make a revision before i go to school, and make a revision for coming home from school. Having ATR on your laptop really makes this tuning thing convinient haha.

[uncorked11]

Yea it does trying to figure out how to mount a tablet in the car for that purpose. good stuff either way looking forward to some sweet data coming.

[Voltwings]

Originally Posted by uncorked11 Yea it does trying to figure out how to mount a tablet in the car for that purpose. good stuff either way looking forward to some sweet data coming.

Anything in particular you're after so i can make sure its logged?

[ESB Jiu JItsu]

Originally Posted by uncorked11 Voltwings did you happen to datalog while driving around? I'm interested to see what the car is doing.

i have all my datalogs from going blow through untuned if you want to see what happens.

basically the volts aka cfms go up, which makes fuel increase, and makes you hit load cut prior to wot.

[uncorked11]

Originally Posted by Voltwings Anything in particular you're after so i can make sure its logged?

Originally Posted by ESB Jiu JItsu i have all my datalogs from going blow through untuned if you want to see what happens. basically the volts aka cfms go up, which makes fuel increase, and makes you hit load cut prior to wot.

yea ESB that would be good I'm trying to get some more info before I put this together, Voltwings, Im looking to see the Air you are flowing, and the IDC % as well. thank you gentlemen.

[dantes5823]

Looks like it's just some maf cal love

[Voltwings]

ok well apparently i havent driven enough for my LTFT's to settle yet so i dont have an update as far as an MAF cal is concerned, however my STFT's are like -10-15% so apparently im running quite rich, which i believe we've established would happen. Im also targeting a 12.4 AFR at WOT and as you can see it is dipping a bit below that, just gonna need some love and then we're back up and running.

Attached is what i could get of a quick 3rd gear pull, now when i was on stock top mount waiting for this intercooler to ship i was running wastegate spring pressure of 8 psi... odd now that its going up to 10 but the key thing i would like to highlight is the difference between Intake temp (measured at MAF about 8" pre throttle body) and BAT's measure in the intake manifold. Goes to show even in 76* weather and with TIG's the shit heatsoaks haha.

[Voltwings]

Originally Posted by NJSPEED3 Everything you need to know about blow through for our platform can be answered by djuosnteisn. JacksonMS30 is currently running this kit right now, with no issues. Here is the 5th port and blow throw. hope this helps you OP. perm garage webcam

i think this ^^ is something i should have paid a bit more attention to, and i believe even dantes5823 mentioned it but i guess i was just excited to get it all together. For those TL;DR, basically i have a 2.5" pipe step up immediately to my 3" MAF, and the air cannot expand quickly enough to be accurately read. To remedy this i have ordered 1 foot of 3" pipe that i'm going to attach right off that 90* coming into the engine bay, hopefully this saves me a bit of time tuning.

[dantes5823]

Originally Posted by Voltwings i think this ^^ is something i should have paid a bit more attention to, and i believe even dantes5823 mentioned it but i guess i was just excited to get it all together. For those TL;DR, basically i have a 2.5" pipe step up immediately to my 3" MAF, and the air cannot expand quickly enough to be accurately read. To remedy this i have ordered 1 foot of 3" pipe that i'm going to attach right off that 90* coming into the engine bay, hopefully this saves me a bit of time tuning.

Tried telling you lol. I would get a honey comb right at the start of that three inch btw.

[Voltwings]

Originally Posted by dantes5823 Tried telling you lol. I would get a honey comb right at the start of that three inch btw.

you did haha, guess i was being a bit thick, yeah i have my draw through honey comb sitting on the work bench, and hopefully it stays there but even if it doesnt im not going to tell you. Not going to give you two "I told you so's" in the same thread haha.

[dantes5823]

Originally Posted by Voltwings you did haha, guess i was being a bit thick, yeah i have my draw through honey comb sitting on the work bench, and hopefully it stays there but even if it doesnt im not going to tell you. Not going to give you two "I told you so's" in the same thread haha.

I would make sure you find a way to secure it in the pipe as well.

[Voltwings]

Originally Posted by dantes5823 I would make sure you find a way to secure it in the pipe as well.

i ordered one that is exactly 3" so it matches the outside diameter of the pipe, a few strips of aluminum tape to keep it steady, then slide the coupler over and clamp the coupler on the connection of the two.

[ESB Jiu JItsu]

check my blow through thread. I ended up using a air straightener aka honeycomb and it helped a lot even in my untuned setup. Also no matter what weather you go with a larger maf housing when going blow through or not i can confirm you will have to do maf cal and scale for it to work properly. Without a maf cal / scale your maf will still read higher values in the blow through position. As shown in his logs and his issue with going wot. But once a cal is done it should be smooth sailing! cant wait to get an AP and go back to blow through!!!!

[Voltwings]

arent LTFT's supposed to settle after like 50mi? ive done like 80 since going blow through and they're still zerod out o_O ???

[anavrinIV]

I was thinking about my setup and I plan on using the longest straight pipe of whatever diameter maf housing I go with as I can, hence my routing plan. It was my thought that the 2-3" of space after the coupler and before the MAF wasn't enough space for the air to expand properly into the pipe, giving you off readings.

another thought, I wouldn't run the straightener that far ahead of the MAF, but more like a couple inches to make sure that you're getting a good reading.

[Voltwings]

well this is currently at a standstill for anyone following this thread, heres the skinny: LTFTs are at 0, constantly. WTH

[Voltwings]

Ok heres an update, after trying several different set ups:

2.5" - 3" directly at MAF X
6" of 3" pipe Pre MAF X
6" pipe pre MAF + Air straightener directly before MAF X
Air straightener at 2.5" - 3" connection = success

having the straightener right after the 90* 2.5" that goes into the 3" section i am having good consistent AFR readings and the MAF is mmmuuuccchhhhh easier to dial in now. Thanks everyone for their input and i hope this is helpful to others. Oh and dantes5823 ... not a word about that damn air straightener haha

[dantes5823]

Originally Posted by Voltwings Ok heres an update, after trying several different set ups: 2.5" - 3" directly at MAF X 6" of 3" pipe Pre MAF X 6" pipe pre MAF + Air straightener directly before MAF X Air straightener at 2.5" - 3" connection = success having the straightener right after the 90* 2.5" that goes into the 3" section i am having good consistent AFR readings and the MAF is mmmuuuccchhhhh easier to dial in now. Thanks everyone for their input and i hope this is helpful to others. Oh and dantes5823 ... not a word about that damn air straightener haha

i hate to say it but




















I told you so lol