First MAF Log

[Harvey PU]

rfinkle2 is gonna rfinkle2. That's what makes MSF great, is to have members like that.

[dead-zone]

mazdaspeed916 sorry for my delayed answer. I am on vacation and don't use the pc at all. As some here already said AFR are off. I think that that is because of the KR(which you should not worry as rfinkle2 said). Did you change all the Fuel tables as per the guides? How about the Knock Tables? Make sure you do these. Otherwise the MAF calb looks ok, maybe slightly off when Mass Airflow is under 18 but it is good.
Just try rfinkle's map For sure he has done pretty much all the basics stuff.

[mazdaspeed916]

rfinkle2 Harvey dead-zone, ok been on vacation myself, back now, I am going to head out tomorrow night to do a few logs and am ready to go to work on this tune.

Also started to read up on phate and his e85 thread, I think I may have found an e85 station nearby, kind of curious to try a mix..... but also scared lol

[dead-zone]

Originally Posted by mazdaspeed916 rfinkle2 Harvey dead-zone, ok been on vacation myself, back now, I am going to head out tomorrow night to do a few logs and am ready to go to work on this tune. Also started to read up on phate and his e85 thread, I think I may have found an e85 station nearby, kind of curious to try a mix..... but also scared lol

Vacations are good, aren't they?

If I were you, first I would build a nice 93 map and then start with e85. Especially, If you tune it yourself you will have more experience(from tuning 93 map) and that way you will understand the whole process better.

The only thing with e85 is that a good tune is a must. Moment that you put that E85 the car will tun lean and like shit.

Soon I will be adding some e85, 50/50 mixture.

[Harvey PU]

yes, i would say get a good 93 map first. then start putting in some E85 and messing with that. E85 is amazing, but not going to be everywhere you go, so you want to have a 93 map in case.

[mazdaspeed916]

Harvey I don't have 93 here in any pumps nearby. Would octane booster get me to the desired 93 and if so any brand suggestions?

[mazdaspeed916]

I did some digging and found that torco and lucas seem to be the better of the bunch but that it only raises octane a total of 30 points which doesn't get me to 93.... stupid CA gas stations ><

[Harvey PU]

Originally Posted by mazdaspeed916 I did some digging and found that torco and lucas seem to be the better of the bunch but that it only raises octane a total of 30 points which doesn't get me to 93.... stupid CA gas stations ><

didnt see you are California. Tune for 91. good to have a reliable map for what you have. Then make an E85 map. use the E85 map for fun! 91 map is there for if you travel and dont have e85 nearby.

[mazdaspeed916]

Ok so first WOT in 3rd from tonight, i'll try to get another tomorrow night.

[dead-zone]

The only difference between the 91 and 93 is that tune won't be as aggressive as on 93, specifically won't be able to push timing a lot.

But as Harvey said just have a good 91 map for back up.

[Harvey PU]

looks like you have room for more boost/timing. those AFR's are just fine for 91. you can either push this map a little bit more, or if you want, you can start working on E85. start with a 3 gallon mix. you would be amazed how much of a difference it makes

[mazdaspeed916]

Harvey anything I should be prepared to tweak after the 3 gallon mix?

[dead-zone]

Most likely will need to do another MAF CALB

[dead-zone]

Harvey I am pretty much done with my map. Just need to change timing after these WOTs. Can you give me a feedback. Any suggestions?
Crazy timing though That on 93. rfinkle2 sorry to put you back to these thread but I would appreciate your opinion as well.

[rfinkle2]

If you guys have a nice clean pump gas maf curve, you can use the injector scalars that Cobb implemented when you start using e85.

*****word of caution guys !!!! ********

DO NOT TUNE FROM KNOCK SENSOR FEEDBACK when using e85.

There is a chance you will never see kr and pass MBT (aka minimum timing for best torque), which is deadly for the rods and engine in general.

Please see below linked thread, and back off of the dyno proven ignition values by a substantial margin if tuning timing on e85.

scalar here:
E85 Beta, now live on ATR

And a huge thanks to Phate for his proven ignition map thread here:
The E85 and E85 Mix *Ignition Timing* Database

[Harvey PU]

yea just gotta scale the injectors and touch up the maf cal. Then the fun part of power tuning!

[Harvey PU]

Originally Posted by dead-zone Harvey I am pretty much done with my map. Just need to change timing after these WOTs. Can you give me a feedback. Any suggestions? Crazy timing though That on 93. rfinkle2 sorry to put you back to these thread but I would appreciate your opinion as well.

Im sorry im getting confused with the two of you lol. you have a log?

[mazdaspeed916]

Harvey when you ran 3 gallons of e85 what did you set scalar and specific gravity to?


That would put me at 25% so specific gravity 0.75 and scalar of 1.1?

[dead-zone]

Originally Posted by Harvey yea just gotta scale the injectors and touch up the maf cal. Then the fun part of power tuning!

Hohoho ,How stupid can I be. Forgot to post the WOTs. Sorry!
Here they are. I just need feedback and opinion.

datalog30.csv

datalog29.csv

datalog24.csv

Timing table.png

EDIT: I will be adjusting timing where kr occurs.

[Harvey PU]

Originally Posted by mazdaspeed916 Harvey when you ran 3 gallons of e85 what did you set scalar and specific gravity to? That would put me at 25% so specific gravity 0.75 and scalar of 1.1?

i have my injectors scaled at 1.05 and FSG at 0.7430 for 3 gallons

Originally Posted by dead-zone Hohoho ,How stupid can I be. Forgot to post the WOTs. Sorry! Here they are. I just need feedback and opinion. Attachment 70975 Attachment 70976 Attachment 70977 Attachment 70978

are you on E85? i noticed minor KR. Thats a lot of timing for 91-93 gas. is it consistant KR? like every log?

[dead-zone]

are you on E85? i noticed minor KR. Thats a lot of timing for 91-93 gas. is it consistant KR? like every log?

I am on 93, for now

It is consistent and it is in that 5000-5600rpm range. I already pulled some timing. Just have to do some logs and see how it is.

I have another 93 map with boost 19psi and less timing(no KR). I wanted to try lower boost, 17, high timing(the current map). In comparesin, I do make more HP on the low boost high timing map but much less torque, about 30 less torque then the 19psi map.

With both of the maps the car pulls very nice. On the 19psi the power sidenly comes, more like a kick.

The 17psi map the power is more smooth.

I do get more wheel spin on the 17psi map.

[mazdaspeed916]

Sigh, so the only gas station nearby is out of e85 and they aren't sure when they're getting more. So let's work on my 91 map, here's the most recent WOT and the map that is being used.

[mazdaspeed916]

rfinkle2 Harvey dead-zone ok so I read buckers cheat sheet on timing again and made adjustments. Before I mate this to my car here's what I did, I added 1* to the no knock tables and then made sure the knock tables were 2* lower and that the max A&B tables were 2* higher let me know if I did that correctly. Thanks again everyone for your input.

[rfinkle2]

Originally Posted by mazdaspeed916 rfinkle2 Harvey dead-zone ok so I read buckers cheat sheet on timing again and made adjustments. Before I mate this to my car here's what I did, I added 1* to the no knock tables and then made sure the knock tables were 2* lower and that the max A&B tables were 2* higher let me know if I did that correctly. Thanks again everyone for your input.

I can't look @ it @ the moment, but Harvey is a great resource.

I didn't mean to barge in the thread. All of the advice you have gotten so far seems sound to me.

[mazdaspeed916]

Originally Posted by rfinkle2 I can't look @ it @ the moment, but Harvey is a great resource. I didn't mean to barge in the thread. All of the advice you have gotten so far seems sound to me.

Any input is much appreciated =)

[Harvey PU]

mazdaspeed916 i cant look at the map. i dont have ATR for a 2010. but what you said you did sounds right.

the general rule with timing, is to raise a degree at a time, until you start to see KR. Then back off 1-2 degrees. If you're getting on E85, i would say back off 2 degrees from that point to make your 91 map safe

[dead-zone]

That the way you need to go. It sounds right. Post the logs though and pic of your ignition table.

[mazdaspeed916]

Originally Posted by dead-zone That the way you need to go. It sounds right. Post the logs though and pic of your ignition table.

Here are the tables

[Harvey PU]

timing curve is fine. thats not very much timing though. You can bump it up a degree at a time until you see KR, then back off a degree or two

[dead-zone]

You can do way more timing! Just do it as Harvey said, slowly. And be patient. It does take some time to adjust it.

[ms3blackmica]

Originally Posted by mazdaspeed916 Here are the tables

those .doc files were hard to see lol i had to zoom in to about 300% to see the table properly. If you can post up screenshots as regular picture files it would help a lot. Your timing is very low, but thats perfectly okay...

Best way to tackle this adjustment is start low and work your way up. Not only is the best way to do it, but also the smartest. Add in small increments also! Try increments of 0.5 at at time. You will feel the difference when you get the timing dialed in.

Something funny that i did once was i saved my map with the low timing in a seperate folder, and after i was done with timing, i flashed back the same map but with the low timing values, and wow is all...It may be hard to feel the difference when your doing pulls all the time to tweak ignition advance, but when you see the final difference between OTS and your final product, its a sweet feeling..

[rfinkle2]

When I set the base map up, I blended the max tables with the high and low throttle tables in order for you to be able to edit 1 table, and copy and paste it to the remaining tables.

Bucker's method is perfectly sound, but I find it easiest to use the same timing in all of the maps. The ecu still pulls timing when it detects knock @ a set rate, regardless of the knocking tables.

-note: There are values in the ots max tables that are keeping your car from running higher advance than as seen in the high and low throttle tables.

In the tables I put into your map, those values are seen in all of the ignition tables, meaning you may now edit one table, and copy and paste those values into all of the tables to avoid confusion.

(I find it best to work this way, but other methods certainly work as well).

[ms3blackmica]

Originally Posted by rfinkle2 When I set the base map up, I blended the max tables with the high and low throttle tables in order for you to be able to edit 1 table, and copy and paste it to the remaining tables. Bucker's method is perfectly sound, but I find it easiest to use the same timing in all of the maps. The ecu still pulls timing when it detects knock @ a set rate, regardless of the knocking tables. -note: There are values in the ots max tables that are keeping your car from running higher advance than as seen in the high and low throttle tables. In the tables I put into your map, those values are seen in all of the ignition tables, meaning you may now edit one table, and copy and paste those values into all of the tables to avoid confusion. (I find it best to work this way, but other methods certainly work as well).

Listen to what rfinkle2 said.

The most consistent way (and this is the way i do it too). The ecu DOES in fact still pull timing accordingly when it detects knock regardless of the knocking table's values. I would set the Max Tables to the same as your primary ignition tables so that you do not have any issue with not hitting your set timing at some point if you go beyond the OTS values in the max tables.

This method becomes easy because you can edit one table, and then copy and paste the entire table into all of the tables and no be confused just as finkle said.

[TiGraySpeed6]

With all this talk of "just copy one table & paste it to the others" going on, it's important to remember that the Max A & B tables have 3 extra lines at the top of the table, and if you just quickly go to the top left corner then ctrl+v you'll be screwing up.

Be sure to select 0.31/500 and paste from there.

The other tables have a lowest value of 0.31, but the max tables add 0.13, 0.19 & 0.25.

[rfinkle2]

Originally Posted by TiGraySpeed6 With all this talk of "just copy one table & paste it to the others" going on, it's important to remember that the Max A & B tables have 3 extra lines at the top of the table, and if you just quickly go to the top left corner then ctrl+v you'll be screwing up. Be sure to select 0.31/500 and paste from there. The other tables have a lowest value of 0.31, but the max tables add 0.13, 0.19 & 0.25.

Just you gen1 turkeys have those 3 extra lines... BUT a great point.

[mazdaspeed916]

Originally Posted by rfinkle2 Just you gen1 turkeys have those 3 extra lines... BUT a great point.

Haha yes, he had me confused for a second, btw thanks again rfinkle2 that base map has been easy to slowly change via the different help faqs and info from the guys in this thread.
I'd have to say thanks to Bucker for his cheat sheet too thats been helpful.

[ms3blackmica]

Originally Posted by rfinkle2 Just you gen1 turkeys have those 3 extra lines... BUT a great point.

Hey !

We are not turkeys

lol

[mazdaspeed916]

Found a E85 station thanks to Bosox going to clean up this 91 map and then start with a 3 gallon E85 map.

[ms3blackmica]

Originally Posted by mazdaspeed916 Found a E85 station thanks to Bosox going to clean up this 91 map and then start with a 3 gallon E85 map.

your going to love the sauce

[mazdaspeed916]

rfinkle2 I think I am ready for a hypnotic tune.