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 Old 07-12-2018, 07:44 AM   #1
 
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Default OTS Tune to Limp on CS Turbo

My CS turbo, 3.5 bar MAP and 3-port CS BCS are on the way courtesy of $240 overnight shipping. I am replacing my blown K04 (hot side oil seals). I haven’t driven the car for two weeks now and I need to get it back to driving since it is my daily.

While I wait for my custom tune from PD Tuning I want to at least drive the car so I can still get to places. By no means do I aim to be WOT or at high boost, I just need the car to get me from point A to point B.

The way I see it this is how I should get it working for the time being:

1. Disconnect BCS from harness to force wastegate spring pressure.
2. Flash Safe Mode tune from Cobb’s selection of OTS tunes.
3. Reinput MAP scalars for 3.5 bar sensor in said OTS map.
4. Reinput MAF calibration for my specific intake.

Would I be safe to drive the car like that for a while (a week at most)? I don’t believe there is anything else I need to change in the map but I’m open to suggestions.

Plus, I’m not sure where to get the MAP scalars, in Corksport’s installation guide it says “see MAP”, so I’m assuming it will have A, B, and offset on the sensor itself or something?
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 Old 07-12-2018, 09:38 AM   #2
 
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Why not just ask pd for a a base map while you wait.
I am assuming you cant make your own map due to cobbs bs or can you? If you can then do a maf cal and zero out the wgdc tables. Just use the oem map sensor and 2 port mode so the ecu can have control over the turbo.

Shit just get a manual boost controller and set it to 10 psi......
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 Old 07-12-2018, 10:00 AM   #3
 
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Originally Posted by 5doorsoffury View Post
Why not just ask pd for a a base map while you wait.
I am assuming you cant make your own map due to cobbs bs or can you? If you can then do a maf cal and zero out the wgdc tables. Just use the oem map sensor and 2 port mode so the ecu can have control over the turbo.

Shit just get a manual boost controller and set it to 10 psi......
Yes you can adjust OTS maps for whatever you want. But the reason why I canít do that is because I havenít bought the tune yet. I just spent all this money on the turbo and supporting mods, I have to wait until next week to be able to buy the custom tune. But I still need a car, hence just getting it driving even if itís not making power.
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 Old 07-12-2018, 03:41 PM   #4
 
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Your "safe tune" is your stock tune with WGDC set to zero across the board, setting MAP values, and copy/paste MAF tables.

Spring pressure on the CS turbo is 10-12 psi.
You shouldn't hit load cut in your Texas summer heat.
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 Old 07-12-2018, 06:55 PM   #5
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I feel like we've discussed this in another thread already. You need a custom tune for your increased MAF housing diameter and your increased MAP capabilities. You cannot safely run the stock or any other OTS map with a 3.5" intake and a 3.5Bar MAP sensor. However, modifying an OTS map to include the appropriate 3.5Bar MAP scalars and scaling the MAF tables for a 3.5" intake should at least allow the car to run moderately safely. That said . . . you really do need a custom tune.

Edit: I was right.

Tune with WG Spring Pressure

BNR S4v2 Base Map


You keep bringing up the same issue in each thread in which you comment lately, @achulz;. TAKE. THE. HINT.

1. You CANNOT run an OTS map safely.

2. You CANNOT run a tune made by someone else on the forum because ATR is VIN/AP-serial number locked. That means maps that I make in ATR are NOT useable in your car. You WILL NOT be able to load them to your ECU.
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 Old 07-13-2018, 12:28 AM   #6
 
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Originally Posted by achulz View Post
Would I be safe to drive the car like that for a while (a week at most)? I donít believe there is anything else I need to change in the map but Iím open to suggestions.
If the intake remains the same you have now then you can use your previous tune to limp around.
However the risks are pretty big if you enter boost because your current tune has WGDC tables way too aggressive for the new turbo and EBCS setup.
Also, the factory MAP sensor calibration will read lower manifold pressure on aftermarket MAP sensors, which means you will only have load limit protection, not boost limit protection. And the load limits are usually set pretty high.

So it takes only one push of the accel pedal once to hurt your engine.

I think a safer temporary approach would be to connect your boost source hose directly to the wastegate and cap the corresponding port on the EBCS. this was you will run on spring pressure and 14-15PSI across the board is perfectly ok (tested) on an OTS tune (not on the factory tune though).
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 Old 07-13-2018, 06:45 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by mituc View Post
If the intake remains the same you have now then you can use your previous tune to limp around.
However the risks are pretty big if you enter boost because your current tune has WGDC tables way too aggressive for the new turbo and EBCS setup.
Also, the factory MAP sensor calibration will read lower manifold pressure on aftermarket MAP sensors, which means you will only have load limit protection, not boost limit protection. And the load limits are usually set pretty high.
I think your suggestion is a bit dangerous, as calculated load is based in part on MAF g/s. As a result, load limits are also based in part, on airflow detected by the MAF sensor. Given that the MAF sensor is going to be reading about 45% less airflow than is actually entering the engine, the load calculations are going to be artificially lower than they should be. Load limits aren't going to save the motor.
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 Old 07-13-2018, 07:10 AM   #8
 
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He already has a tune for his intake.

I suggested starting with the stock tune because the timing tables are likely less agressive and the fuel tables are excessively rich. Just copy/paste his current MAFcal, input values for the new MAP sensor, and wipe the WGDC table.
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 Old 07-13-2018, 07:43 AM   #9
 
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Because you cannot go mechanically below the WG spring, you need to live with that amount of boost possibility, regardless of what you do.

To 0 out the WG duty, you can do it software but it can get tricky without all it needs....Disconnecting the wire to the EBCS do exactly that if the plumbing is right. If not, just connecting WG to turbo discharge and call it done.

For the Maf scalar, I read that it is the same intake. So it would not be a big deal. If not, just fit the smaller maf hosing until he can get the scalar done for a 3.5 inch maf. I would never drive with a 3.5'' tuned for a 2.65''...it is a direct call for ZZB. G/s drop by 80% so load drop calling for more timing and less fuel for the same conditions....

For the MAP, i would just drive with the oem one until the tune is made for it. it cost 0$ to keep it until he is ready to increase boost above 2x psi.


Another option i tough about but never tried would be to use the BPV as a relief valve. if you disconnect the top port. As soon as boost would beat the spring pressure, it will open and drop the boost. Bad side could be to stress the turbo thrust bearing if you lift the gaz too fast. (I had in mind a temporary measure with an aftermarket BPV and a weak spring but....It begin to get tricky.....(Maybe it is why you can buy a Stratified Guardian Angel to manage both conditions...)...
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 Old 07-13-2018, 01:30 PM   #10
 
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Originally Posted by Vansquish View Post
Given that the MAF sensor is going to be reading about 45% less airflow than is actually entering the engine.
At 45% deviation, or anything more than 25 the engine will shut off 2 seconds after startup.
This is why I mentioned "if the intake is the same", because the turbo upgrade will not affect the MAF cal, nor will do the rest of the mods from his list.
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 Old 07-14-2018, 02:43 PM   #11
 
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Originally Posted by achulz View Post
Yes you can adjust OTS maps for whatever you want. But the reason why I can’t do that is because I haven’t bought the tune yet. I just spent all this money on the turbo and supporting mods, I have to wait until next week to be able to buy the custom tune. But I still need a car, hence just getting it driving even if it’s not making power.
You didnt read my post at all did you.....

I didnt ask you if you can modify a ots tune. I said can you modify maps period since Cobb instated the inability to make custom maps without takeing a course offered by them.

Then you ignored the fact that i gave you a solution that will work ...... ok follow me now...

You modify a map until you get a custom tune .
Do a maf cal.
Setup a 2 port mode on the ebcs.
Zero out the wgdc.
Then wait until you get tuned........

Or just get a manual boost controller.
What is so difficult? Get a junk yard ko4 until you have a base map in hand. Make a map that will work from the mounds of tuning info available on this site. Do what they did back in the day and get a MBC. Get a uber. Eat a dick. Use ben gay in place of lube. Idk man its not like this is a rb26 swap into a cressida its just a simple change to a map or hard part.
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 Old 07-14-2018, 03:15 PM   #12
 
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I'm starting to put my money on him not having ATR.
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Versatuner, 3-bar MAP, ITV22's
CS Turbo/DP/RP/HPFP/BPV/R-DiffMount
White Widow F-DiffMount, Whiteline RSB
Russian Bushings in Back, Magnaflow CBE
JBR Tru-3.5/3-port EBCS/EGR-D
Damond RMM/PMM/Stage 2 OCC
Puppy Power tuning temporarily suspended.
Forged build ongoing. Manley H-Tuff & 2618, King Bearings

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2002 Tacoma ExtCab 2.4L 5spd 2WD - 355k mile Parts Getter
2004 Olds Alero ECOtec 2.2 - Broken (since Christmas 2015)
History:
2008 GSX-R 1000 - Stolen (With several runs past 180, I'd probably be dead by now if it wasn't stolen. So, in a way, I'm thankful.)
1988 RX-7 TII - Sold (Megasquirt, streetport, filter-on-turbo SRI, custom TBE, 20psi boost creep on OE turbo, OE TMIC on ice, 13.467 @ 105.44) apex seals said buh bye!
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 Old 07-15-2018, 01:26 AM   #13
 
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Oh wait, you can't even change a MAF cal on the Cobb OTS tunes? Or do they provide some OTSs with MAF cals for various intakes?
In this case using Cobb AP and not having hired a tuner who's ready to send you a map just to get out of the shop is not going to send it...
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 Old 07-20-2018, 04:18 PM   #14
 
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Since for some reason you all think I can’t edit the OTS maps, I went ahead and used my plan anyways. I’ve been driving the car for about a week, and yes I have ordered a tune just waiting on the base map now.

It seems like a lot of people jump to conclusions because they don’t fully understand what I’m asking. I was going to edit the OTS map in the first place to calibrate for my MAF and MAP, which I did. I zeroed our the WGDC so it peaks at about 10-12 PSI. Car runs fine, no knock or unusual numbers.

People saying ‘you can’t use other people’s maps’, of course I can’t. I’m not stupid, I know that, what I was asking is if there was any OTS style tune for big turbos like mine. Anyway I figured it out, I’m just waiting for my tune right now.

Only one other thing, I installed the 3.5 bar MAP today and set the scalars in ATR, exactly as they read on the MAP sensor itself. Though it seems to read lower boost pressure, not sure what that’s about. With the stock MAP it would read 12.1-12.7 PSI peak, where as now it reads 10.1 peak. I’m no expert but it seems like something is off, don’t know if it was the stock MAP or my new one.
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 Old 07-20-2018, 04:26 PM   #15
 
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Originally Posted by Fstrnyou View Post
I'm starting to put my money on him not having ATR.
I have ATR, I even paid for it through their Ďtrainingí.

Lol, you guys call me an idiot and then suggest the exact same fucking thing I originally said in my OP. Load OTS map with modified MAF, MAP, and WGDC.

Itís like to get an answer on this forum calling someone a fucking dumbass is required first. Iím starting to put my money on most guys here not having a clue what theyíre talking about and verbally abusing people over some forums to cover for it.
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 Old 07-20-2018, 04:31 PM   #16
 
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Use mechanical boost gauge to verify. Your low altitude should be adequate since mechanical gauges are calibrated for sea level.

As mentioned MANY times, OTS tunes are junk.

I suggested modifying your stock tune because the timing is likely more conservative, AFRs are richer, and load targets are lower. Should be quite safe.
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 Old 07-20-2018, 05:19 PM   #17
 
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Originally Posted by achulz View Post
Since for some reason you all think I canít edit the OTS maps, I went ahead and used my plan anyways. Iíve been driving the car for about a week, and yes I have ordered a tune just waiting on the base map now.

It seems like a lot of people jump to conclusions because they donít fully understand what Iím asking. I was going to edit the OTS map in the first place to calibrate for my MAF and MAP, which I did. I zeroed our the WGDC so it peaks at about 10-12 PSI. Car runs fine, no knock or unusual
Soooo what was the point of this thread .... was it just a big is it safe if i modify a ots map question?

Originally Posted by achulz View Post
Would I be safe to drive the car like that for a while (a week at most)? I donít believe there is anything else I need to change in the map but Iím open to suggestions.
Guess it was.... .

Are you a fuckin retard? Since you paid cobb to be taught how to tune and have accsess to atr just to get tuned on locked maps you must be retarted... In that case no it is not safe to drive around on a map you modified. Well since thay was the only question you had i hope you had fun paying for cobbs master training then coming here asking if its safe for you to touch a map.
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 Old Yesterday, 06:19 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by achulz View Post
I have ATR, I even paid for it through their Ďtrainingí.

Lol, you guys call me an idiot and then suggest the exact same fucking thing I originally said in my OP. Load OTS map with modified MAF, MAP, and WGDC.

Itís like to get an answer on this forum calling someone a fucking dumbass is required first. Iím starting to put my money on most guys here not having a clue what theyíre talking about and verbally abusing people over some forums to cover for it.
I would offer the thought that if you have a question like the one you have been posing, that you should provide all the pertinent information when you ask.

That is, if you're asking, "Is it safe to modify a stock or OTS map for my new turbo, intake, and MAP sensor?", then it would be useful to know if you have access to ATR. I would gladly have pointed you in the right direction, but you kept asking things in a way that was cryptic and didn't indicate that you A) knew anything about tuning this platform or about the way that ATR works, and B) that you had access to and (at least in theory) knew how to use ATR.

With that all in mind, the answer to your questions is "yes." You can safely modify the OTS and/or stock map to safely run your new turbo, intake, and MAP sensor. There are a couple of good tuning guides on the forum here that will teach you to tune your car yourself at this point. Depending on how confident you are in your understanding of the ECU, you could tune your own vehicle reasonably safely. I certainly have.
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 Old Yesterday, 08:36 AM   #19
 
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What was the point of bragging about paying $240 for overnight shipping, when you then complained about not having money for a tune?

Also, you have ATR, you seem to actually understand tuning, and know what to edit in ATR to make things work. So why are you paying someone else to do what you can do yourself? You don't have AUX fueling, meth, or anything else that may make it a bit more complicated. I say save the cash, do some more reading on here, and tune it yourself.
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 Old Yesterday, 09:30 AM   #20
 
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Been tuning mine since I was stock. Hadn't ZZB'd yet and I'm an idiot.
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White Widow F-DiffMount, Whiteline RSB
Russian Bushings in Back, Magnaflow CBE
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2004 Olds Alero ECOtec 2.2 - Broken (since Christmas 2015)
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1988 RX-7 TII - Sold (Megasquirt, streetport, filter-on-turbo SRI, custom TBE, 20psi boost creep on OE turbo, OE TMIC on ice, 13.467 @ 105.44) apex seals said buh bye!
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 Old Yesterday, 10:19 AM   #21
 
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Originally Posted by g00s3y View Post
What was the point of bragging about paying $240 for overnight shipping, when you then complained about not having money for a tune?

Also, you have ATR, you seem to actually understand tuning, and know what to edit in ATR to make things work. So why are you paying someone else to do what you can do yourself? You don't have AUX fueling, meth, or anything else that may make it a bit more complicated. I say save the cash, do some more reading on here, and tune it yourself.
One, I already bought the tune.

Two, I trust myself enough to adjust simple things like MAF tables and MAP scalars, I donít trust myself enough to adjust fuel, ignition, WGDC tables, etc. (aside from zeroing the WGDC, simple enough) I would rather leave that to the guys that have tuned many of these cars in several configurations who really know what theyíre doing. Yes I understand how it works and what the changes do but I donít trust myself to correctly adjust them. This is my daily driver and I canít afford blowing it up because I put in a wrong number. Iíd love to learn more on how to tune, but reading isnít going to help me as much as going out and doing it myself, after all thatís the only way I really learn, something Iím not willing to risk on (currently) my only car.
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