2010 Rods

[Lex]

Originally Posted by Teethkikr Dont give me shit like I am dumb. Been around this stuff for a while now. I just started yesterday so I would like to build relationships with the people I will be working with.. There are a few ways I can get what I want so take it easy. I like to pick the brain of the service advisor since I will work with him the most on my own car.. I can look up parts myself.. Oh, and part numbers can change year to year and be exactly the same due to manufacturer changes so even if they are different numbers may not mean a thing.. I looked it up and the part numbers are identical for 09 and 10 so I doubt they are at all different.. The rod bearing set is also the same number

Thanks for the info. Do the part numbers change at all for the DISI from 06 on?

Alex

[FORZDA 1]

Originally Posted by Teethkikr Dont give me shit like I am dumb. Been around this stuff for a while now. I just started yesterday so I would like to build relationships with the people I will be working with.. There are a few ways I can get what I want so take it easy. I like to pick the brain of the service advisor since I will work with him the most on my own car.. I can look up parts myself.. Oh, and part numbers can change year to year and be exactly the same due to manufacturer changes so even if they are different numbers may not mean a thing.. I looked it up and the part numbers are identical for 09 and 10 so I doubt they are at all different.. The rod bearing set is also the same number

LOL Wasn't giving you shit, but it obviously came across that way! Welcome to the forum.

Oh, and I've also been around this "stuff" for more than a while. Actually I have lots of experience in acquisition, supplier/part qualification, first article testing from new vendors, etc. Yes, the PN will likely change due to a vendor change, but with a vendor change you also get SOME product change even if they're built to the SAME original specs. My point is though, that if the PNs are the same, then the product is essentially the same. The change classification (Type 1, 2, or 3) will determine whether the part number must change.

Thanks for checking this out. IMO, the topic is settled, NO changes to teh rods.....

[djuosnteisn]

Originally Posted by Lex DJ any word? 24 grams can be quite significant and indicate a change. Is the 2011 speed not going to be made?

I sent him a few texts last night but never got a response. I'll try to call him during lunch today and just pick his brain regardless, even though it seems highly unlikely that the rods are different.

[Teethkikr]

Yeah I took it that way... Everything you said was fine except the "duh" at the end lol... Yeah I think the p/n being the same pretty well settles it..

[ms3077]

I love being right

I'm pretty certain the only real significant differences under the hood between the 1 and 2nd Gen are the PVC system.

Other than that the transmission has slightly taller 2-5th gear ratios, the chassis is the same but various suspension bits have been reinforced / stiffened up on the 2nd Gen.

We aren’t talking EVO vs. STI here. It’s pretty much 1st GEN with a few tweaks, mostly minor. Hence why performance the #’s are virtually identical. This isn't a bad thing, if it aint broke no need to fix.

[mr_mazda329]

Originally Posted by mr_mazda329 Wow. Lets get some proof of said beefier rods. Pics please. Here's a good question. If said 10' rods weight 24grams/.85oz more than the 09's. Then what about the forged ones you buy from say like Carrillo, Pauter. How much do those weigh over the 09's. Then you could probably determine how much stronger the 10's are over the 09's and.. go!

Beuller.. Beuller?

[Vater]

Originally Posted by mr_mazda329 Wow. Lets get some proof of said beefier rods. Pics please.

My rod is beefier, but I think it's against the ToS to post pics...

[Lex]

Originally Posted by mr_mazda329 Beuller.. Beuller?

Aftermarket forging are usually lighter. They get away with this through better materials and machining of the rods.

[PiKA West]

Look what I started

[djuosnteisn]

was it your motor john looked at?

[Haltech]

Umm that article was written in 2008.. Enough said. You dont redesign a car then keep the same motor just for one year... only to change powerplants the following.

I believe Mazda will use an ecoboost engine in gen 3.

[PiKA West]

Originally Posted by Haltech Umm that article was written in 2008.. Enough said. You dont redesign a car then keep the same motor just for one year... only to change powerplants the following. I believe Mazda will use an ecoboost engine in gen 3.

I doubt Mazda will use ecoboost since their relationship with Ford has diminished since Ford sold Mazda back to Mazda. We've noticed that lately with practicaly the end of Tribute production. Although with the Mazda2/Ford Fiesta coming out that could be saying something else although I'm sure that was in the works for awhile. A coworker of mine was talking to one of the R&D guys that worked on the speed3 and kind of cornered him trying to make him squeal. The only thing he got out of him was that there will not be AWD on the 2nd but on the 3rd gen its a strong possibility.

[Lex]

Whens gen 3 slated for production - 2013?

[triplejumper18]

Originally Posted by ms3077 I love being right I'm pretty certain the only real significant differences under the hood between the 1 and 2nd Gen are the PVC system. Other than that the transmission has slightly taller 2-5th gear ratios, the chassis is the same but various suspension bits have been reinforced / stiffened up on the 2nd Gen. We aren’t talking EVO vs. STI here. It’s pretty much 1st GEN with a few tweaks, mostly minor. Hence why performance the #’s are virtually identical. This isn't a bad thing, if it aint broke no need to fix.

The intake manifold is different and costs over $1200 and there were changes to the block also.

[PiKA West]

No clue on ETA for gen3. All I know is I will have equity in my car so I can trade this one in to get that one when it comes out.

[ms3077]

Originally Posted by triplejumper18 The intake manifold is different and costs over $1200 and there were changes to the block also.

Proof? $1200 more than the old one? Or are you just saying it cost $1200? What kind of changes to the block? Does it make a difference?

[triplejumper18]

Originally Posted by ms3077 Proof? $1200 more than the old one? Or are you just saying it cost $1200? What kind of changes to the block? Does it make a difference?

It costs $1200 and has a different part number. The changes to the block reportedly include alteration to the oil pooling areas.

We've seen distinctively different cylinder flow and blown motors due to oil hydrolock on the 1st gen, right? If our broke asses have been able to find that kind of shit, Mazda sure as shit found that when breaking down failed motors and parts. If they felt it was a potential issue I would suppose it would be in their best interest to make tweaks on new models to reduce the dollar amounts on future warranty claims.

[ms3077]

Originally Posted by triplejumper18 It costs $1200 and has a different part number. The changes to the block reportedly include alteration to the oil pooling areas. We've seen distinctively different cylinder flow and blown motors due to oil hydrolock on the 1st gen, right? If our broke asses have been able to find that kind of shit, Mazda sure as shit found that when breaking down failed motors and parts. If they felt it was a potential issue I would suppose it would be in their best interest to make tweaks on new models to reduce the dollar amounts on future warranty claims.

1st GEN has been out a lot longer and not all of them hydro lock. The cost of the mani has nothing to do with anything. How much does the mani on the 1st GEN cost? I'm guessing similar. The other theories you mention aren't convincing and I still see no proof. I’m going with what Mazda says. The power train is a complete “carry over”. Everything else is just rumors / speculation.

[Lvis]

bump for this thread

[Lvis]

Originally Posted by Dre Now piece of info #2.. I got this from PTP, who has torn into a couple of 2010's and checked some things out.. this is what they found (this came from a PM from them concerning the rods): They are the same sizes for the big and small ends but they appear to have more "beef" to them. They are 24 grams heavier than the 09's so something has been done to them.

can ptp chime in and verify this with us??????????????

[Lvis]

I WANT ANSWERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! LOL

[djuosnteisn]

Originally Posted by Lvis I WANT ANSWERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! LOL

Here's a few:

[forbidden doughnut]

Originally Posted by PiKA West I doubt Mazda will use ecoboost since their relationship with Ford has diminished since Ford sold Mazda back to Mazda. We've noticed that lately with practicaly the end of Tribute production. Although with the Mazda2/Ford Fiesta coming out that could be saying something else although I'm sure that was in the works for awhile. A coworker of mine was talking to one of the R&D guys that worked on the speed3 and kind of cornered him trying to make him squeal. The only thing he got out of him was that there will not be AWD on the 2nd but on the 3rd gen its a strong possibility.

Ford still owns 10% of Mazda's stock and is the single largest shareholder in the company. They had about 1/3 of Mazda's stock before they sold some of it. It is safe to assume that there will be some engine sharing between ford and mazda for a while. Though our cars are *basically* ecoboosted now....though with a focus on fast instead of being "green".

[Speed3eak]

I would love to see the later years of the MS3 use Ford's Revoknuckle on the front suspension, because that would mean it would be available for retrofit on the 2010, which I've been hoping for ever since I read about the Revoknuckle and how it helps put down power in FWD cars.

Plus the MS3 uses the C1 body, it's the same as the european focus rs, drop in retrofits would be so easy, no fabrication or nuthin'. And putting down 300+ whp wouldn't make the car drive like a pig... Especially if they made it with lightweight materials... The car would be lighter up front, handle better, and be able to put down more power! I want this so bad!

[cheez]

Originally Posted by bf360 Dont really trust ptp's info with out some proof and facts, why would he have torn into a 2010 motor unless it was blown?

Maybe he wanted to check it out to see any changes made to the rods. We have not yet heard of rods failing on the 2010 model. Just admit it, ms3077 (), 1st gen has issues with rods, poor design and no strength.. hence they bend or break so easily.

[cheez]

Originally Posted by triplejumper18 The intake manifold is different and costs over $1200 and there were changes to the block also.

I am telling you, ms3077 is a hardcore 1st gen troll.... the worst troll I have ever seen in my life.

[Lex]

Originally Posted by cheez Maybe he wanted to check it out to see any changes made to the rods. We have not yet heard of rods failing on the 2010 model. Just admit it, ms3077 (), 1st gen has issues with rods, poor design and no strength.. hence they bend or break so easily.

Or maybe that there are a lot fewer 2010s with fewer miles with fewer mods.

I don't trust anything without seeing proof. A shop like PTP does not tear into an 8k factory motor just because.

[Eazy]

It could also be because the PCV system was revised in the 2010s

[Lex]

Originally Posted by Eazy It could also be because the PCV system was revised in the 2010s

Lol, oh the PCV ...

You're close to PTP - did they ever have a 2010 around?

[Eazy]

There have been a few, with MazdasNW it's not hard to find him a car. I can't say whether or not he's opened a motor, but I know he's done his research. Who's to say he didn't pick up a set of brand new OEM internals from Mazda? John does have connections and may have gotten the info from another reliable source. Just because a member says he "tore into a motor" doesn't mean he opened it up.

[cheez]

Originally Posted by ms3077 1st GEN has been out a lot longer and not all of them hydro lock. The cost of the mani has nothing to do with anything. How much does the mani on the 1st GEN cost? I'm guessing similar. The other theories you mention aren't convincing and I still see no proof. I’m going with what Mazda says. The power train is a complete “carry over”. Everything else is just rumors / speculation.

Don't just go piss off on the guy because he is saying the fact (maybe is fact, or maybe not) that YOU don't like to hear... Learn to respect other members. You are not some hot shot around here. And don't get so damn defensive.... get your act together, my *young one*.

[felt]

Originally Posted by Eazy Just because a member says he "tore into a motor" doesn't mean he opened it up.

Um...Yes, actually it does.

[Lex]

People are still hung up on hydrolock eh ... lol

[Eazy]

Originally Posted by Lex People are still hung up on hydrolock eh ... lol

Well, at least in my motor, the one rod that was bent was the only cylinder drenched with still-wet oil.

[Lex]

Originally Posted by Eazy Well, at least in my motor, the one rod that was bent was the only cylinder drenched with still-wet oil.

I would urge you to check your other rods. I am willing to bet you have more than 1 that is slightly bent.

How did you notice that rod bent? Was it following a HUGE plume of blue smoke?

[Eazy]

No, I got "the clutch vibration" and had John do a compression test... 180-190 across the board except the driver side (#1? #4?) was like 150-160 To see if it was rings or a bent rod, he measured the distance to the top of the piston and it was ~.030 deeper.

[Lex]

Originally Posted by Eazy No, I got "the clutch vibration" and had John do a compression test... 180-190 across the board except the driver side (#1? #4?) was like 150-160 To see if it was rings or a bent rod, he measured the distance to the top of the piston and it was ~.030 deeper.

Ok, so you got clutch vibes. The motor ran a good while with the vibes meaning IF there was oil in there it was LONG gone in a few combustion strokes.

So where does this fresh oil tell-tale come from?

Did you feel vibes after an accel event?

Once/if your motor is ever apart, take a look at the other rods. They are probably also slightly bent. Not enough to cause a compression problem or vibes.

The rod that bent such that you felt vibes just bent MORE at that point unless you overboosted that one time. It was already slightly tweaked. That's how they all go. All the motor internals I have seen have 1 major bent or broken rod with 1-2 other ones slightly bent. Meaning they were all overloaded equally.

[Eazy]

Did you see my initial post about what exactly happen? I had gone 2-3 months babying the car due to a completely toasted clutch. I installed the new clutch and took it easy for another couple days to break it in. On the first WOT in 3rd gear, boost shot up to ~25psi. I did not go WOT again because I needed to adjust the WGA. Later that night i noticed the clutch vibrating and remembered Scott (IDRVSLO) having the same issue, so I took it to Jon the next day.

I should be pulling the motor soon, so we'll see. I am by no means an expert or insinuating your post is wrong... it's just what makes sense to me right now.

[Lex]

You answered your own question. That 25psi spike did it in. Good thing you don't have a hole in your block. There was no oil or hydrolock here.

Originally Posted by Eazy Did you see my initial post about what exactly happen? I had gone 2-3 months babying the car due to a completely toasted clutch. I installed the new clutch and took it easy for another couple days to break it in. On the first WOT in 3rd gear, boost shot up to ~25psi. I did not go WOT again because I needed to adjust the WGA. Later that night i noticed the clutch vibrating and remembered Scott (IDRVSLO) having the same issue, so I took it to Jon the next day. I should be pulling the motor soon, so we'll see. I am by no means an expert or insinuating your post is wrong... it's just what makes sense to me right now.

[Eazy]

Originally Posted by Lex You answered your own question. That 25psi spike did it in. Good thing you don't have a hole in your block. There was no oil or hydrolock here.

It could have been it, but isn't it a little coincidental that it's the only cylinder with wet oil in it?