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 Old 08-21-2017, 05:48 PM   #1
 
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Default Tracking Down A Misfire Problem

So just today I started having a noticeable misfire in my 2012 Mazdaspeed3. I had no codes to go off of, just the feeling of sudden jerks when giving the car more gas. After about 30 miles I now have a P0300 and P0301 codes that came up with my CEL. So far I've cleaned the spark plugs and made sure the gap was correct. I cleaned my MAF sensor. And checked for vacuum leaks. This happened almost 1 week after installing my FMIC. This weekend I plan to pull the injectors and clean them and install CS injector seals. Anyone have any other suggestions?


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 Old 08-21-2017, 08:22 PM   #2
 
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Vacuum leak
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 Old 08-21-2017, 08:39 PM   #3
 
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My Speed6 is doing the identical thing, I'm bone stock though. CEL came on on my way into work tonight...
Haven't run any diagnostics yet but I'm going to tomorrow.


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 Old 08-21-2017, 11:25 PM   #4
 
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Boost leak. Check your fuel trims/AFR.
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 Old 08-21-2017, 11:35 PM   #5
 
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Originally Posted by btstarcher View Post
Boost leak. Check your fuel trims/AFR.


What should they be?


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 Old 08-21-2017, 11:37 PM   #6
 
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Trims should be close to 0 if you're doing it right. AFR depends on the tune, but at idle, around 14.7-14.8. Also boost at idle should be around -10 to -11.

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 Old 08-22-2017, 02:51 AM   #7
 
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Originally Posted by btstarcher View Post
Trims should be close to 0 if you're doing it right. AFR depends on the tune, but at idle, around 14.7-14.8. Also boost at idle should be around -10 to -11.

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Ok so I checked and tightened all my clamps to the intercooler so they're good. Here's my readings at idle.

AFR: 14.8
Boost: -11
LTFT: -1.XX
STFT: -0.6X

Everything seems good at idle. I took it for a little drive and it's definitely still misfiring when I try to accelerate. Just cruising on a flat road and maintaining speed and throttle position I don't notice it. I only feel it jerk when I try to accelerate a little bit. At that point I got a spike of AFR at 28.XX, not sure what that means. Just surprises me that it ran fine for a week without any noticeable problems. I even went cruising some back roads and it seemed to run really strong then I had a nice calm drive into town the next day and nothing seemed off, but on my way back it started jerking really bad. I'd be glad to hear anymore suggestions though. Appreciate the feed back guys.


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 Old 08-22-2017, 02:59 AM   #8
 
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What does your AFR look like in a datalog?

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 Old 08-22-2017, 07:40 AM   #9
 
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Have you checked your coils?
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 Old 08-22-2017, 09:16 AM   #10
 
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Originally Posted by btstarcher View Post
What does your AFR look like in a datalog?

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As far as what? At idle or driving around and putting load on it?


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Originally Posted by mazda62006 View Post
Have you checked your coils?


I visually inspected them and didn't see anything unusual. I did swap 1 to 4 to see if the misfire followed it and so far the CEL hasn't come back on so I can't say for sure on that one. Is there another way to check other than buying another coil?


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 Old 08-22-2017, 09:55 AM   #11
 
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Are you watching for KR?

Your lean spike of 28.xx, was that during acceleration or you looked at it after driving for a while? Engine braking will cut fuel and in turn register the lean 28.xx.

A misfire code is triggered by an unexpected change in RPM, as measured by the crank angle sensor. I believe the ECU might also correlate the misfire with sudden dips in AFR from unburned fuel.
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 Old 08-22-2017, 01:19 PM   #12
 
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You have to take a datalog of driving in closed loop, then post it. Or look at AFR, and make sure it's constantly changing. You may have a faulty O2 sensor. It should be constantly changing.

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 Old 08-22-2017, 02:01 PM   #13
 
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Originally Posted by mazda62006 View Post
Have you checked your coils?


I'm getting a new coil pack tomorrow to try in cylinder 1 where it said the misfire was at.


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Originally Posted by Fstrnyou View Post
Are you watching for KR?



Your lean spike of 28.xx, was that during acceleration or you looked at it after driving for a while? Engine braking will cut fuel and in turn register the lean 28.xx.



A misfire code is triggered by an unexpected change in RPM, as measured by the crank angle sensor. I believe the ECU might also correlate the misfire with sudden dips in AFR from unburned fuel.


KR hits about .5 which is not out of the ordinary for me. The 28 was after accelerating and then letting off and coasting. Just tested this.


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Originally Posted by btstarcher View Post
You have to take a datalog of driving in closed loop, then post it. Or look at AFR, and make sure it's constantly changing. You may have a faulty O2 sensor. It should be constantly changing.

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AFR definitely changes as I press in the gas pedal. I can also check the O2 sensor.


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 Old 08-22-2017, 02:17 PM   #14
 
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You need to look at it in a datalog to tell. It will also jump randomly after being stuck at a certain number.

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 Old 08-22-2017, 08:04 PM   #15
 
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Originally Posted by btstarcher View Post
You need to look at it in a datalog to tell. It will also jump randomly after being stuck at a certain number.

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Ok will do. I'll post a couple up. One at idol and one driving.


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 Old 08-22-2017, 08:08 PM   #16
 
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When they start to go bad they get stuck at 14.81 for awhile (probably still less than a second) and jump to 29 and then act normally. Since it's reading 14.81, and probably targeting less (14.7 at most), the ECU commands more fuel, resulting in positive trims. This results in a rich condition, even though it's reading lean, which results in bad gas mileage and misfires.

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 Old 08-22-2017, 08:08 PM   #17
 
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Don't post a log 10k lines long. No one will look at it. Keep it short and sweet around the problem area.
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1988 RX-7 TII - Sold (Megasquirt, streetport, filter-on-turbo SRI, custom TBE, 20psi boost creep on OE turbo, OE TMIC on ice, 13.467 @ 105.44)
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 Old 08-22-2017, 08:09 PM   #18
 
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Yeah just log for 30 seconds to a minute. Long enough to see any patterns. I'll read it.

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Awesome. Thanks a lot for the help guys. Really appreciate it.


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 Old 08-24-2017, 01:34 AM   #20
 
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Ok here are those data logs. First one is at idol, then accelerated in second, and accelerated in third. Also I got my new ignition coil in and it did not fix the problem. let me know what you think.
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File Type: csv Misfire_Idol.csv (50.1 KB, 2 views)
File Type: csv Misfire_2nd Gear.csv (18.4 KB, 4 views)
File Type: csv Misfire_3rd Gear.csv (19.8 KB, 3 views)
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 Old 08-24-2017, 01:58 AM   #21
 
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Have you cleaned your MAF sensor? I see a few issues with jumps in AFR, corresponding to MAF voltage excursions.

EDIT: Just read your OP again; did you clean it properly? Is there anyone nearby you can swap sensors with?

Also, check the actual pins in the harness. See if any are loose or recessed.

And take a picture of your intake, at each clamp. Check to see if any of them are rubbing against the wiring harness.
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 Old 08-24-2017, 02:03 AM   #22
 
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Originally Posted by btstarcher View Post
Have you cleaned your MAF sensor? I see a few issues with jumps in AFR, corresponding to MAF voltage excursions.

EDIT: Just read your OP again; did you clean it properly? Is there anyone nearby you can swap sensors with?

Also, check the actual pins in the harness. See if any are loose or recessed.


I mean I pulled the MAF and thoroughly sprayed with MAF sensor cleaner. Is there more to it? I can maybe see if someone will lend me theirs.


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 Old 08-24-2017, 02:07 AM   #23
 
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Originally Posted by StevenPThomas View Post
I mean I pulled the MAF and thoroughly sprayed with MAF sensor cleaner. Is there more to it? I can maybe see if someone will lend me theirs.


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I just wanted to make sure you're aware that the actual sensor is way down inside the housing, out of sight. That the plastic bulb in plain sight is the air intake temperature sensor.

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 Old 08-24-2017, 02:08 AM   #24
 
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Originally Posted by btstarcher View Post
I just wanted to make sure you're aware that the actual sensor is way down inside the housing, out of sight. That the plastic bulb in plain sight is the air intake temperature sensor.

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Yeah yeah, but I just spray it correct? There isn't something else I have to do?


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 Old 08-24-2017, 02:17 AM   #25
 
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Correct. So check the pins, and check to see if your clamps on your intake are rubbing against your wiring harness anywhere.
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 Old 08-24-2017, 02:22 AM   #26
 
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Ok so the pin in the middle is a more brass color as the other appear to be aluminum maybe. It's like this on the sensor and the plug on the harness. Is that normal?


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 Old 08-24-2017, 02:26 AM   #27
 
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Originally Posted by StevenPThomas View Post
Ok so the pin in the middle is a more brass color as the other appear to be aluminum maybe. It's like this on the sensor and the plug on the harness. Is that normal?


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Fuck if I know. I just remember reading some threads where people were having problems with the pins in the MAF sensors, resulting in weird MAF-related problems. Including misfires. It was much more common several years ago to find harnesses that had been worn through over time, and that almost always resulted in misfires.

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 Old 08-24-2017, 02:28 AM   #28
 
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Hmm. I'll look around for any worn areas. Just for good measure I did a compression check and I'm getting right around 170-175 on all cylinders. Appreciate the help.


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 Old 08-24-2017, 02:31 AM   #29
 
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Originally Posted by StevenPThomas View Post
Hmm. I'll look around for any worn areas. Just for good measure I did a compression check and I'm getting right around 170-175 on all cylinders. Appreciate the help.


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At least you're listening and doing the work, unlike some of the other guys on here. Misfires are difficult to track down when you've ruled out plugs and coils. Another thing to consider is a sticking injector. Maybe run some fuel system cleaner through it.

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 Old 08-24-2017, 02:33 AM   #30
 
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Ok I can try that. I added some fuel injector cleaner to my tank. Would you consider that the same thing? I haven't really driven it since then though. Just quick tests here and there. I'm afraid I'm going to blow something up.


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 Old 08-24-2017, 02:36 AM   #31
 
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Originally Posted by StevenPThomas View Post
Ok I can try that. I added some fuel injector cleaner to my tank. Would you consider that the same thing? I haven't really driven it since then though. Just quick tests here and there. I'm afraid I'm going to blow something up.


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Well you will blow up, eventually. Just resign yourself to that now and start saving. That way when it happens, you'll be ready.

And yeah that stuff should be fine. Just cover all the bases.

You mentioned cleaning the spark plugs, but what did they look like? And was one any different from the others?

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 Old 08-24-2017, 02:37 AM   #32
 
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Originally Posted by btstarcher View Post
Well you will blow up, eventually. Just resign yourself to that now and start saving. That way when it happens, you'll be ready.

And yeah that stuff should be fine. Just cover all the bases.

You mentioned cleaning the spark plugs, but what did they look like? And was one any different from the others?

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All plugs looked the same unfortunately, so that didn't give me much to go off of. I'm actually in the process of putting brand new Denso ones in. Just see if that does anything.


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 Old 08-24-2017, 02:40 AM   #33
 
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Check the gap. They're probably too wide. Although not by much.

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 Old 08-24-2017, 02:43 AM   #34
 
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Originally Posted by btstarcher View Post
Check the gap. They're probably too wide. Although not by much.

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Yeah when I pulled them all out they were around .03ish and I regapped them. The ones I just put in I set at .026. Trying it right now.


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 Old 08-24-2017, 03:20 AM   #35
 
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Well it seems to have ran better. Will try more in the morning.


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 Old 08-24-2017, 03:28 AM   #36
 
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Fuel system cleaner fixed my cyl3 misfire earlier this year.

FWIW, I used Lucas Max Fuel Sys Cleaner
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 Old 08-24-2017, 03:35 AM   #37
 
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Originally Posted by Fstrnyou View Post
Fuel system cleaner fixed my cyl3 misfire earlier this year.



FWIW, I used Lucas Max Fuel Sys Cleaner


Thanks for the tip. If this isn't cleared up I'll try that. I had already added STP fuel injector cleaner when I initially had the misfire thinking it may help.


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 Old 08-24-2017, 05:29 PM   #38
 
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Was in the store today. It's not called Lucas Max. It's Lucas Deep Clean.
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 Old 08-24-2017, 06:32 PM   #39
 
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Ok ok. I'm going to go grab a bottle tomorrow morning and try it out.


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 Old 08-25-2017, 02:16 PM   #40
 
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Ok so last night I got a P0171 Fuel System Lean Bank 1 CEL. Today I got a new tune from FreakTune and loaded it. I then did a 60 mile drive in the highway. It didn't seem like the tune had changed anything. On my way back home I bought a bottle of that Lucas Fuel System Cleaner Deep Clean and added the whole bottle to about 12 gal of gas. Honestly this seemed to help. The noticeable jerk from a misfire is not completely gone, but it's not as bad. Could this mean the misfire is related to my injectors? I got new CorkSport seals in yesterday. Btw I didn't do any really hard acceleration or get into boost much at all, but the cleaner seemed to do something.


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