400hp BNR stage3

[SWAY]

Originally Posted by atvfreek Uh oh, why? lol My actual DD map is about 350/350. I will have to run that most of the time unless I want to keep dumping meth in my tank. That shit gets expensive quick.

Im guessing no ethanol where your at?

Sent from my paranoid Nexus

[helmetface]

Originally Posted by atvfreek Uh oh, why? lol

I'm guessing because of Dan's "OIL EVERYWHERE" Thread :/

[atvfreek]

Originally Posted by SWAY Im guessing no ethanol where your at? Sent from my paranoid Nexus

Nope. There is some about 50-60miles away, so it's not out of the question. Just sucks to lose a couple hours driving for it.

[08.5MS3]

Originally Posted by helmetface I'm guessing because of Dan's "OIL EVERYWHERE" Thread :/

I agree.

Breezed through the thread last night. Oil in cylinder 1. Something with the valves last I read. He'll probably explain more.

[Dano]

Originally Posted by Boosten Ya(josh) Why Dano? Did you zzb?

Originally Posted by atvfreek Uh oh, why? lol My actual DD map is about 350/350. I will have to run that most of the time unless I want to keep dumping meth in my tank. That shit gets expensive quick.

Originally Posted by helmetface I'm guessing because of Dan's "OIL EVERYWHERE" Thread :/

lol what started out looking like only a bad valve guide has progressed to either a bent rod in #3 cylinder or if I get lucky like Bluestreak, a lost ringland.

will measure piston height tonight to hopefully confirm one or the other.

all that to say I was running around at +-380WHP/400WTQ and it don't last forever...I was even using a gradual upward boost taper yet still...I pushed my luck and was in the planning stages of a pop-n-drop build but came up a lil short.

im tellin ya that crown is cursed Ziggo

[helmetface]

Sorry to hear that Dan, I still have to read the last page of your thread.

Hopefully I have a freak motor like cld12pk2go and others...and I can actually push past the threshold that we are all so afraid of..

[Lex]

Originally Posted by helmetface Sorry to hear that Dan, I still have to read the last page of your thread. Hopefully I have a freak motor like cld12pk2go and others...and I can actually push past the threshold that we are all so afraid of..

Lol it's about calculating your risks - they are just hard to calculate. It's just about the load seen by the rods * number of cycles at that load. The higher the load the fewer life cycles you have.

I bet if we calculated a number like this:

Cylinder pressure (Torque, Detonation) * Number of engine revolutions at that torque level you'd start to get a clear idea of where engines start to drop off and there would be some outliers but you'd get a good average. Good luck calculating this though.

If you want to consistently play at the 400 level, a pop and drop takes the guess work out of it.

[dantes5823]

atvfreek so which map will you be running against me lol

[atvfreek]

Originally Posted by dantes5823 atvfreek so which map will you be running against me lol

To be determined. Lol

Freekn tappin

[dantes5823]

Originally Posted by atvfreek To be determined. Lol Freekn tappin

oh great....guess i better be ready. Guess we should both run or VTA maps if you know what i mean haha

[atvfreek]

Originally Posted by dantes5823 oh great....guess i better be ready. Guess we should both run or VTA maps if you know what i mean haha

Don't put your car in any danger because of a little run against me. It's all on fun. Make the tune safe and smooth and the rest will fall into place. The nice thing about renting the dyno was that I was able to prove out about 6 maps. So if this damn rain would stop, I could actually get out and fully try them out.

My car is already vta, with the gfb bpv I have it open about 15%. You should see the amount of meth that sprays out of it when I let off the throttle. I never noticed until I was on the dyno.



Freekn tappin

[dantes5823]

Originally Posted by atvfreek Don't put your car in any danger because of a little run against me. It's all on fun. Make the tune safe and smooth and the rest will fall into place. The nice thing about renting the dyno was that I was able to prove out about 6 maps. So if this damn rain would stop, I could actually get out and fully try them out. My car is already vta, with the gfb bpv I have it open about 15%. You should see the amount of meth that sprays out of it when I let off the throttle. I never noticed until I was on the dyno. Freekn tappin

Lol when i said vta i meant rods. But im not risking my motor lol. Went through that speech after trying to race Gerry. And i had the same problem with my bov venting my meth....only i could see it escaping the hood while driving....looked pretty cool actually lol. I havent done logs in forever and i wanna get a few solid vd plots before then.

[Lex]

Be careful with meth spray guys. Above 50% mixes are quite flammable and meth fires are not visible.

[helmetface]

Originally Posted by Lex meth fires are not visible.

I've learned a lot from you Alex, but that's probably the most valuable thing I've gotten thus far.

Thank You

Originally Posted by dantes5823 atvfreek so which map will you be running against me lol

Are you on e85 dante?

My prediction: Justin will blast off, you'll reel him in..I'm not going to "guess" who "wins" because I can't legally do that without a functioning speed...

However, if J "loses" I foresee him loading his dyno tune and pop and lockin' to 140


Regardless, I want a fucking video.

[jman46]

Guy at my work used to build and work on NHRA funny cars, he told me the horrors of Meth a long time ago. But I still love it.

[atvfreek]

Originally Posted by helmetface I've learned a lot from you Alex, but that's probably the most valuable thing I've gotten thus far. Thank You Are you on e85 dante? My prediction: Justin will blast off, you'll reel him in..I'm not going to "guess" who "wins" because I can't legally do that without a functioning speed... However, if J "loses" I foresee him loading his dyno tune and pop and lockin' to 140 Regardless, I want a fucking video.

There will be vids. I will have the go pro on deck.

The spool from the bnr to the gtx is only about 200rpms, so that is almost negligible. He has the better turbo, so he should beat me. I don't care though. I'm not a sore loser. Ask Mike mba-lt1 haha

Freekn tappin

[dantes5823]

I will have no problems loosing to Justin. I may have a better turbo but we both are tuned for our weak points, rods. So it just comes down to a matter of who has more balls, me or him. But he may be at the turbos total max. I still have the space. But im not gonna make some ATVFREEK KILLA MAP or some shit just to win and then have to get towed home. I just need to plot this current tune and ill see where im at.

helmetface, no eth just meth. I forsee this being a really close call. Actually im willing to bet that i might just mayyyybee get the jump, by jump i mean like a fender, on him cause of my wider and stickier tires. And praying that 4th goes in without any fail.

[Tokay444]

Originally Posted by jman46 Guy at my work used to build and work on NHRA funny cars, he told me the horrors of Meth a long time ago. But I still love it.

Nitro methane and methanol are not one in the same.

[jman46]

I know that, but during runs back in the day (we're talking over 20 years ago when he did this) they used to pull the heads and give a quick blast with meth to cool them down.

[Dano]

Originally Posted by atvfreek My car is already vta, with the gfb bpv I have it open about 15%. You should see the amount of meth that sprays out of it when I let off the throttle.

Originally Posted by Lex Be careful with meth spray guys. Above 50% mixes are quite flammable and meth fires are not visible.

b but fire is perfect if you want to cook your rice

[atvfreek]

Originally Posted by Dano b but fire is perfect if you want to cook your rice

Lol, everybody likes a little rice once in a while

Freekn tappin

[dantes5823]

They call me rice Kang for a reason yo!

[Bucker]

Originally Posted by Lex IMO it's smart that Justin is planning to build the motor at these power levels for a daily driver. I feel that in the 400 tq/whp range you're running pretty close to the edge of the envelope and shortly after that comes borrowed time on the stock motor. That being said, what's the highest whp the stock turbo's hit?

I'm just over 400whp currently with the nitrous on, I think that is still the top stock turbo number lol.

Even without nitrous, I am daily ~ 380 ft/lb and it seems to be holding on for now.

[Dano]

Originally Posted by Bucker I'm just over 400whp currently with the nitrous on, I think that is still the top stock turbo number lol. Even without nitrous, I am daily ~ 380 ft/lb and it seems to be holding on for now.

ahem

I'd guess I have made about 150-200 runs at over 380HP and right at 400 WTQ....if only we could cap all that data.

we need an odometer like app for the AP so it records and keeps every stat of a user defined variable and threshold. Say g/s or maf voltage or load. It can download the info every time you plug in and keep it in a database on yo machine.

Enki...can you add that to your list of things to make? save any and all CSV files into a folder including sub folders and have your app import them, count them and graph the results.

bbarnhill or have VD do the same...maybe easier

[rghispanic88]

congrats justin. unbelievable.

[Dmurray06]

Originally Posted by Dano ahem I'd guess I have made about 150-200 runs at over 380HP and right at 400 WTQ....if only we could cap all that data. we need an odometer like app for the AP so it records and keeps every stat of a user defined variable and threshold. Say g/s or maf voltage or load. It can download the info every time you plug in and keep it in a database on yo machine. Enki...can you add that to your list of things to make? save any and all CSV files into a folder including sub folders and have your app import them, count them and graph the results. bbarnhill or have VD do the same...maybe easier

God damn good idea.

[cld12pk2go]

Originally Posted by helmetface Hopefully I have a freak motor like cld12pk2go and others...and I can actually push past the threshold that we are all so afraid of..

I don't know if mine is a freak. At least I have never considered it one...

Originally Posted by Lex Lol it's about calculating your risks - they are just hard to calculate. It's just about the load seen by the rods * number of cycles at that load. The higher the load the fewer life cycles you have. I bet if we calculated a number like this: Cylinder pressure (Torque, Detonation) * Number of engine revolutions at that torque level you'd start to get a clear idea of where engines start to drop off and there would be some outliers but you'd get a good average. Good luck calculating this though. If you want to consistently play at the 400 level, a pop and drop takes the guess work out of it.

You are of course exactly right in your understanding. All I can say is the number of cycles at the ~400-430wtq range without detonation that the rods can survive is at least several hundred pulls worth since I personally have done that in my case.

If you want to convert that to cycles that works out to about 460 cycles per pull (averaging 5250 RPMs during the 5.3 seconds WOT 4th gear pull from ~3500-6500 RPMs where my torque is essentially 400wtq +/- a little.) So I probably am in the general ball park of 200 pulls X 460 = ~90,000 cycles at this point.

Of course, the final limit could be the next pull or 5000 later...that is the risk, and there is simply no way of knowing.

[rfinkle2]

Originally Posted by Lex Be careful with meth spray guys. Above 50% mixes are quite flammable and meth fires are not visible.

Just bought an extinguisher yesterday in the case it starts to get surpislingly hot in my car. LOL.

[Domino81]

Where do you aim the extinguisher if the flames are invisible? LOL!

[rfinkle2]

Originally Posted by Domino81 Where do you aim the extinguisher if the flames are invisible? LOL!

Where it is hot? LOL. I just thought of a situation where another guy who used to contribute to our forum's car was derstroyed in a meth fire and want some peace of mind.

[NJSPEED3]

Congrats buddy, that is an awesome curve for street racing.

[Boosten Ya(josh)]

I need to get one too. I don't have meth but incase i run over a bucket.

[MS3G35]

Originally Posted by Boosten Ya(josh) I need to get one too. I don't have meth but incase i run over a bucket.

eric@edgeautosport

[lilred]

Originally Posted by Boosten Ya(josh) I need to get one too. I don't have meth but incase i run over a bucket.

Don't buckets stay away from stock turbos?

tapafuck

[Boosten Ya(josh)]

Maybe but you never know.

[Lex]

Originally Posted by cld12pk2go I don't know if mine is a freak. At least I have never considered it one... You are of course exactly right in your understanding. All I can say is the number of cycles at the ~400-430wtq range without detonation that the rods can survive is at least several hundred pulls worth since I personally have done that in my case. If you want to convert that to cycles that works out to about 460 cycles per pull (averaging 5250 RPMs during the 5.3 seconds WOT 4th gear pull from ~3500-6500 RPMs where my torque is essentially 400wtq +/- a little.) So I probably am in the general ball park of 200 pulls X 460 = ~90,000 cycles at this point. Of course, the final limit could be the next pull or 5000 later...that is the risk, and there is simply no way of knowing.

This is polluting Justin's thread but it's worth mentioning due to cldpack's very clear post just to give you guys some perspective.

Below is the S/N curve for 1045 steel which is probably a close approximation to what we have in our rods. As you can see, the Y axis (vertical) indicates stress level and the X axis (horizontal) indicates number of cycles. Once you cross this curve, the material is past the fatigue point meaning it will fail/break.

For the material to live forever you have to be below the curve as it flattens out. To experimentally test this you need about 10^6 cycles which is 1 million cycles. So you can see that cldpack is nowhere near proving that the rods will last forever at at 400wtq+. He will need 2000 pulls to prove that at this torque level.

However if the stress you are applying is above the flat line of the S/N curve it will not fail right away but will also not live infinitely long because at some point you will cross that S/N line and be above it. The higher you are on the curve the fewer cycles it will take fatigue the part.

Based on the failures we've seen, my assumption is that 400wtq is probably above the flattening point of the S/N curve. That means borrowed time but it doesn't mean the engine will blow tomorrow and you may not fatigue it even during the entire time you have the car based on driving habits alone.

This should give you guys and gals some perspective on when people claim that the car can take 300wtq versus 500wtq. The real question is for HOW long.

This concludes my engineering posts for the day and I am returning to tunes

[NJSPEED3]

Where's my advil now.

[dantes5823]

thats some straight ms3blackmica shit right thur

[Dano]

Originally Posted by NJSPEED3 Where's my advil now.

here this will help more

[rfinkle2]

between cld12pk2go's graphical representation of his logs and Lex's demonstration of metallurgy, I'm spent.