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 Old 08-06-2017, 08:33 AM   #1
 
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Default TIL There are different kinds of lug nuts

You have open backs, closed backs, spiky ones, colored ones, even externally threaded ones for plastic protectors.

But I had no idea there were different mechanisms for how they hold the wheel on:
[image\]https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/attachments/evo-x-tires-wheels-brakes-suspension-sponsored-tire-rack/122897d1218506247-best-lug-nuts-evo-x-mr-wheels-s2500199.jpg[/image]

I got a set of BBS wheels with rubber from a guy on our local Mazda FB group, nice guy. Did the research beforehand to see if they would fit. I'm stock, so research would suggest I was fine, but I figured I would check fitment closely before driving. Went to put them on this morning and got this far before I realized something was wrong:

Now I get to wait for fucking lug nuts. Nothing I ever read mentioned the lug nut difference, but maybe I just missed it. I was only searching for fitment issues. Didn't expect, let alone know, there would be a different lug nut.

Probably for the best anyways because this happened shortly after:

Jammed on solid and I can't for the life of me get it off. The old ones were not doing so hot regardless, but there's another week I shan't be driving her.

TL;DR: don't expect things to go right/as planned and fuck mitsu

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 Old 08-06-2017, 09:25 AM   #2
 
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En den?
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 Old 08-06-2017, 09:41 AM   #3
 
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Originally Posted by Djohns View Post
En den?
It's sitting? I only got one wheel back on/tightened fully because the locking lug is now stuck in the special socket. The other wheel has 4 tightened lug nuts and the locking nut is not tight. I was nervous just moving it out of the driveway.

Or were you picking at my wordiness because I ramble too much? Guilty, unfortunately.

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 Old 08-06-2017, 11:23 AM   #4
 
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I'm confused, the lug nuts are stock and they're seized?

Yers ago before my MS3 I had an issue with trying to put the wrong pitch on my studs before and damaging a few of my studs (that was a pita)

Anyways, there are different angles where the lug meets the rim, so make sure you have the right angle otherwise it is not safe. Reference image
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 Old 08-06-2017, 11:59 AM   #5
 
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Sort of. The current wheels are OEM with OEM (taper) style aftermarket lugs. 1 lug per wheel is a locking style and the tool that came with the car to remove the locking lug is now stuck on one of the locking lugs. 90% positive it is aluminum.

The BBS wheels take a mag seat style of lug nut, so I have to buy a set for them, but I now also need a new set of taper style as well.

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 Old 08-06-2017, 12:14 PM   #6
 
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Get the lug off, PB blast really well and use a vice and pliers and anything else you can think off. Get creative.
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 Old 08-06-2017, 01:16 PM   #7
 
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Certainly will try, but if the nut and the tool are that fucked up, I need new ones anyway. I honestly might just sell the stockers, idk. It might be nice to have em.

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 Old 08-07-2017, 10:57 PM   #8
 
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So I got the damn lock socket off, but I'm now a bit worried and could use any and all help.

TL;DR: second paragraph from the bottom and pics

Bought a set of "tuner" lugs, acorn, tapered M12x1.5. After putting them on, I noticed that the old lugs looked different, so I popped one of the new ones off and here follows the pictures:

Yes my stove is dirty, but it had the best lighting/background.

This is a side by side of the lug nuts that were just on the wheels compared to the new ones currently installed. As you can see there is a larger contact patch on the old ones, but the taper appears to be the same (I can't measure it in any quantifiable way)

The left nut (rofl) is from the mazda 6 that donated it's wheels to be my winters. 16x6.5 if that matters, an 06 M6.

Not related to the current issue, but certainly the cause of it all, thought you would want to see the bastard.

My question is, am I gonna throw a wheel using the tuner style lugs on my stock MS3 wheels? More succinctly: is the difference in contact a problem? I'd like to be able to drive my car to work tomorrow jic the lady's car doesn't start, again. Not to mention I miss my turbo, but I don't miss it enough to chance destruction.


As another point of concern 80ft-lb feels quite loose as far as torque goes. I bought a new Husky (I know, hai qaultiy) torque wrench this evening and followed proper torque procedures (as far as my company has taught them to me), but they just feel not as tight as I think they should be. Granted I drove a truck prior to this and the torque spec is some 130ft-lb, but I was curious if others felt the same?

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 Old 08-08-2017, 01:46 AM   #9
 
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80-90 ftlbs or two ugga duggas.
130 will likely spin the studs.
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 Old 08-08-2017, 05:11 AM   #10
 
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If you have another option I would not use improper lugs on my wheels. As I posted before the difference in lug angles... it matters. Wheels (unsprung weight) are under a huge amount of centripetal force and I would not skip out on safety. This puts stress on the lugs, wheels, studs, ect. Ultimately it is up to you but I would order proper lugs and do it right the first time.
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 Old 08-08-2017, 07:01 AM   #11
 
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Originally Posted by Coltzxli View Post
If you have another option I would not use improper lugs on my wheels. As I posted before the difference in lug angles... it matters. Wheels (unsprung weight) are under a huge amount of centripetal force and I would not skip out on safety. This puts stress on the lugs, wheels, studs, ect. Ultimately it is up to you but I would order proper lugs and do it right the first time.
Those lugs he has are fine.
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The go: Depo racing: downpipe (100 cell count), custom: FMIC. HTP: 3.5" intake, under route piping. JBR: shortshifter, RSB. Autotech: HPFP internals. Go fast bits: hybrid BPV, VMR: 18x8.5 V710s, Bridgestone: potenza re760 245/40/18, KW: v3 coilovers,SPC: camber arms, freektuned, Damond Motorsports: dual OCC, PMM, PCV plate, RMM, TMM, EGR delete, FoSt mani, Corksport: battery box(fuck this thing), injector seals, Cobb: EBCS, AP v3. AEM: methanol. Seibon: carbon fiber hood. UR: catback. Bosch: 3bar. BNR: s4, DNP: EWG manifold, Tial: 38mm mvs EWG.

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 Old 08-08-2017, 07:54 AM   #12
 
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Use the proper lugs for the wheels. I would not use tuner lug nuts on a wheel that needs a conical seat lug nut (or vise versa) - it is not safe. It is safer to run only 4 of your 5 correct lug nuts than 5 of the wrong type.

Do it right or don't do it at all.
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 Old 08-08-2017, 07:54 AM   #13
 
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The taper is correct, the length of the taper/contact was what I was worried about. Ended up not mattering because even after rotating them, there's still an awful vibration, but it's just from the back now. I would say the dealership's diagnosis was correct: the bulged tire has thrown it's wheel out of balance. I'll be waiting for my Mitsu lug nuts until I can drive it again.

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 Old 08-10-2017, 08:11 PM   #14
 
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So I figured that I would post this here because it continues on from my original fail.

I am finally in possession of Mitstupid mag seat lug nuts; spline drive, no less. They are fucking heavy, definitely a steel as is the lock socket. That makes me very happy:


And even though we are scheduled for storms galore tonight, I couldn't let that stop me, so I got everything out and realized my gf took the truck to work It has all my tools in it.
So off to Harbor Freight. I know, not exactly quality, but I read a really great post today on a SYAB (Save Your Ass Bag) and I figured a cheap set of deep well metrics with a rachet would be just the ticket.

So, here they are all put on:



I know this is a performance forum, but damn they look good. They beat the stockers so hard and it just looks more aggressive.
Speaking of aggressive, I had to give em a spin, so I made sure the lugs were all torqued to spec, and off I went. Had this weird pull to the left and remembered that I noticed the front left seemed like it could use some air. I had turned off my street by maybe 500ft, so I came back to check and sure enough, the front left was at 20psi Break out the cheap, Walmart compressor and we're back on the road. Meanwgile I left it running so my oil is nice and warm for me to start hammering on the turbo. Which brings me to...

Holy shit these fuckers grip. Almost no wheel spin in 1st with T/C off. You'd have to try real hard. Even with the used Hankook V12s, it was awesome. Which brings me to...

TIL what wheelhop is lol. Granted I'd rather not do it again as I've read how bad it is, but shit. My car is so much more fun than it was when I bought it. I also experienced what it feels/sounds like to have the motor hit the firewall. So a RMM has moved up the list of mods.

Anyways, it's gonna take a bit (probably the next set of tyres) to find out if what I'm feeling is just new (to me) rubber, or the extra 20mm per wheel of rubber on the pavement. So glad to have my baby back, baby back, baby back...



(Ribs)

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 Old 08-11-2017, 08:30 AM   #15
 
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And the story continues! During my drive yesterday, I noticed some vibration at 70mph+-2mph, but no where else. So I called a couple shops to squeeze me in today and I got one this morning. After hearing my diagnosis he suggested a balance, cheaper and faster. Also they will rotate and balance the wheels for free for the rest of the life of the tire.

I will say, they feel better. I already had an alignment scheduled for tomorrow, plus an oil change, so that's happening tomorrow. So hopefully by the end of the weekend my car is completely back to normal plus wider wheels.

The shop also said my rear struts were blown and one of the mounts is broken, so I'll also be calling the dealership because it's still under warranty.

Jesus this car is needy...

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 Old 08-11-2017, 08:57 PM   #16
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what a roller coaster of a thread.

and did you really try to black out a license plate? we'll dox you anyway, bro.
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 Old 08-11-2017, 09:14 PM   #17
 
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Originally Posted by Pu Manchu View Post
what a roller coaster of a thread.

and did you really try to black out a license plate? we'll dox you anyway, bro.
Ha, yea I mean I do what I can, but I saw everyone else leaving their license plates, so I left mine.

I'm well aware that there's nothing to stop you from finding my info, but I honestly feel like I'm not worth your time. Though I appreciate the thought.

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 Old 08-14-2017, 07:21 AM   #18
 
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I can't fucking believe I'm saying this, but I am not sure this is over.

On my morning commute, approximately 40ish miles, mostly highway, I felt a couple of things: firstly the car likes to pull to the left, just a tad. Even in the right lane, where it should be slightly canted to the right, I get a small nudge to the left. I don't exactly remember what my steering felt like prior to my tire issues, but I don't remember a pull. Initially I checked tire pressure, but they are at 35psi both. The wheels/tires are balanced and aligned(this weekend) and the treadwear is about even all around. Do I need tighter alignment tolerances? The factory settings seem, honestly, a bit wide. But I am not well versed in that shit. I may be an engineer, but I work with shit that flies.

Secondly, I get random vibrations through the steering wheel. I drive a nominal 80ish mph. Again, I don't exactly remember what the baseline feel of my car was, but I have to guess it wasn't this. The problem is that the vibrations are random. I was driving along and everything felt great, then I got this little feel from the wheel that it was just barely reciprocating. Then it increased in magnitude, though not as much as before with the stock wheels with the bulged tire, then it disappeared for a while. Then it went back to the large vibrations, and on and on like this all the way off the highway.

I'm afraid that the stockers & bulged tire potentially knocked something in the suspension out, or potentially the drive train. Or maybe it's the wider tires + wider scrub radius. Either way, I really don't want to buy brand new tires for my stockers, just to figure out what's going on here; that was why I bought these used ones.

Any ideas? Is it normal to feel a small reciprocation through the steering wheel at highway speeds? I'm running out of ideas and really am trying to not just throw money at this problem to make it go away, but the research is starting to dry up.

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