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 Old 10-24-2016, 08:29 AM   #1
 
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Default Injector Seals stronger noise

I installed the seals last week and... the car does the same thing lol.

Except the injector noise is super strong now... I can hear it behind the wheel, and that are big words considering the two JBR motor mounts.

Is this normal? No wonder the OEM seals are made of this soft rubber material, damn lol

And no there are no injector fails or problems, the car has 18k miles... my tuned CX7 has 98k miles with the original injectors, even the Mazda service people wonders how (that's a story for another discussion)
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 Old 10-24-2016, 09:26 AM   #2
 
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Why did you install the seals if you weren't having issues?
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 Old 11-03-2019, 04:49 PM   #3
 
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Originally Posted by Sorrento View Post
I installed the seals last week and... the car does the same thing lol.

Except the injector noise is super strong now... I can hear it behind the wheel, and that are big words considering the two JBR motor mounts.

Is this normal? No wonder the OEM seals are made of this soft rubber material, damn lol

And no there are no injector fails or problems, the car has 18k miles... my tuned CX7 has 98k miles with the original injectors, even the Mazda service people wonders how (that's a story for another discussion)
What turned out to be the issue? Under the hood I can hear the injector much louder as well
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 Old 11-03-2019, 06:25 PM   #4
 
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No issue… it’s just the difference in materials, the new ones being stronger and rigid, there is little dampening of the vibration produced by the opening/closing if the injector, which is what you hear.

Remember what we meant to do with the stronger seals: endure higher combustion chamber pressures, nothing in engineering is free.

It’s a shame nobody in this god forsaken FORUM (there’s your problem lol) respond with this information back then… I had to do the research and reasoning on my own.

What’s the reason for this FORUM to exist? There is little civilized interaction and the only interactions I have suffered were angry people insulting because I made he crime of asking what “already being asked”… shut down the forum and make it a manual then. The definition of a FORUM something else, not trolls or people who thing of themselves to be a reincarnation of … I don’t know lol. At least this engine has a forum (sarcasm)

Anyhoo good luck, just never post a question here: just read… ohh, AND SEARCH… “or else”
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 Old 11-03-2019, 06:30 PM   #5
 
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Originally Posted by anavrinIV View Post
Why did you install the seals if you weren't having issues?
Just fashion I guess… the fashion of bigger pressures and the fear of something inside of the combustion chamber being ejected at super high speeds lol

Why did you respond with such patronizing reply in the first place? What’s your problem, other than the obvious “not trying to make an effort to help… or write” lol

This forum is so toxic… but then again all forums are, oh kay lol
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 Old 11-03-2019, 06:47 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by anavrinIV View Post
Why did you install the seals if you weren't having issues?
Originally Posted by Sorrento View Post
Just fashion I guess.
Sounds about right.

P.S. - Your rationale, "… the fashion of bigger pressures and the fear of something inside of the combustion chamber being ejected at super high speeds lol" makes no sense whatsoever.

Sure, there's an increase in cylinder pressures at higher boost levels and increased timing, but whatever is going out of the combustion chamber is going out via the exhaust ports. Shit will always take the easiest path out of there. Your injectors (and the injector bosses) were never going to be that easiest path.
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 Old 11-03-2019, 07:08 PM   #7
 
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Originally Posted by Vansquish View Post
Sure, there's an increase in cylinder pressures at higher boost levels and increased timing, but whatever is going out of the combustion chamber is going out via the exhaust ports. Shit will always take the easiest path out of there. Your injectors (and the injector bosses) were never going to be that easiest path.
Ha ha!

Wait, are you serious?

You don’t understand much about engineering and physics… maybe if your universe runs at 18 to 21 psi and 350 to 400 bhp what you said would make “half sense”, but if the universe is bigger than that your assumptions are quite wrong.

This is the problem with all Forums, this one in particular: it’s so easy to understand one another, to talk and to ask to understand positions and points of view. But no! The human condition DEMANDS insecurities must respond in showing off rather than to listen and, if it’s the case, offer something positive.

Thanks anyway for your prompt respond… wait! It’s not 2016 lol, thanks but no thanks. Btw you forgot to mention spark plugs ceramic breaking under pressure with atmospheric engines at 11:1 compression ratios, and more of course… quite it’s lees pressure than these 2.3 DISI at 25+ psi (do the math)

Cheers!
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 Old 11-03-2019, 07:34 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Sorrento View Post
Ha ha!

Wait, are you serious?

You don’t understand much about engineering and physics… maybe if your universe runs at 18 to 21 psi and 350 to 400 bhp what you said would make “half sense”, but if the universe is bigger than that your assumptions are quite wrong.

This is the problem with all Forums, this one in particular: it’s so easy to understand one another, to talk and to ask to understand positions and points of view. But no! The human condition DEMANDS insecurities must respond in showing off rather than to listen and, if it’s the case, offer something positive.

Thanks anyway for your prompt respond… wait! It’s not 2016 lol, thanks but no thanks. Btw you forgot to mention spark plugs ceramic breaking under pressure with atmospheric engines at 11:1 compression ratios, and more of course… quite it’s lees pressure than these 2.3 DISI at 25+ psi (do the math)

Cheers!
You're hilarious.

First off, I have a degree in physics, and I spend pretty much every day working on internal combustion engine designs for several of the world's five largest auto manufacturers. So...yeah, I know a bit about engines and how they work.

Secondly, as I said before, whatever is the easiest way out is how things will (generally) flow. That's a basic precept in physics stated in a folksy way. If you'd prefer, we can discuss this concept from the perspective of the Second Law of Thermodynamics. That is, closed systems tend towards entropy and additional energy is required to reverse this tendency. In relation to our engines, the combustion process is a perfect microcosm of the conversion of potential energy into kinetic and thermal energy. By its very nature, this is a transition from a less entropic state to a more entropic state. In relation to the structure and shape of the combustion chamber, this results in the expansion stroke in our four-stroke engine, as well as the evacuation of the exhaust gasses through one or more of the exhaust ports in our heads. During (and actually somewhat before) the exhaust stroke, our exhaust ports open and the exhaust gases seek to equilibrate with the temperature and pressure of the system outside of the combustion chamber. In the meantime, your injectors, the spark plugs, the piston, and the intake ports each are effectively a series of solid surfaces through which the exhaust gasses cannot pass. Accordingly, those gasses will take the path of least resistance out of the cylinder.

Even if you have spark plug ceramic that breaks and ends up getting pinged around inside a cylinder (which as an attorney, I will note is entirely irrelevant to the original question, my previous response, and most of our discussion here), it will most likely end up getting ejected, if at all, through an exhaust port rather than through your injector boss.

This is true regardless of the type of aspiration the engine uses. In our case, the injector seals are there primarily to prevent fluid and/or gaseous matter out of the combustion chamber. There is very little about the OEM ones, the CS seals, or any other DI injector seals for our platform that prevents the injectors from getting ejected themselves. That's down to the crow's feet, the fuel rail, and the bolts holding the rail to the head. In any case, you're not going to blow a chunk of spark plug out through the injector boss unless you've got some other catastrophic failure and a chunk of your head has gone the way of the Dodo.

I can do the math, I have done the math, and I would recommend that you consider doing likewise.

I responded quickly because this thread suddenly got bumped up to the top of the "most recent threads" and you responded in a shitty way to one of the more knowledgeable members on the forum who posted his response IN 2016. Yep, that's right, YOU RESPONDED TO SOMEONE FROM 2016, NOT ME.
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 Old 11-04-2019, 07:40 AM   #9
 
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User not responding until June 2021

lol

Btw… resumes are only valid when you properly show the skills, or else someone could say “degree in what? After what you posted before???…

Insecure 30 something, early 40’s… with cero race experience. I don’t care about that, that was never my point (Virtue Signaling like you immediately did, after condescending and patronizing language)… not everyone has 28 years racing experience, as a driver, team owner, team engineer, chief mechanic in the end… we are here to share information, not to fight trolls or very insecure posters.
A chance lost is always a sad thing, one day you will understand this.

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 Old 11-04-2019, 10:19 AM   #10
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@Sorrento; why don't you provide some data or a theory as to why or how you believe the injector seals are going to help keep debris inside your engine? All you've done so far is post sarcastic, antagonistic responses that only serve to pooh-pooh the reasonable questions and responses that others have made. You really haven't done anything other than "virtue signal" and express a holier-than-thou attitude yourself.

This forum is all about data. If you have it, why don't you put it out there for others to learn from?
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 Old 11-04-2019, 10:26 AM   #11
 
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Originally Posted by Sorrento View Post
No issue… it’s just the difference in materials, the new ones being stronger and rigid, there is little dampening of the vibration produced by the opening/closing if the injector, which is what you hear.

Remember what we meant to do with the stronger seals: endure higher combustion chamber pressures, nothing in engineering is free.

It’s a shame nobody in this god forsaken FORUM (there’s your problem lol) respond with this information back then… I had to do the research and reasoning on my own.

What’s the reason for this FORUM to exist? There is little civilized interaction and the only interactions I have suffered were angry people insulting because I made he crime of asking what “already being asked”… shut down the forum and make it a manual then. The definition of a FORUM something else, not trolls or people who thing of themselves to be a reincarnation of … I don’t know lol. At least this engine has a forum (sarcasm)

Anyhoo good luck, just never post a question here: just read… ohh, AND SEARCH… “or else”
Well put. I come here to interact but instead get scolded for not producing a thesis. Believe it or not I find facebook a lot more interactive and informative.
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 Old 11-04-2019, 11:25 AM   #12
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Hopefully, you can see it from our side too. When the same questions get asked repeatedly and more and more people answer them with partial or bad information, it gets harder and harder to search. The forum is a kind of database. If you work on the management side of that database, it gets really frustrating to have to keep redirecting everyone away from bad information and towards good information.

My particular frustration with @Sorrento; is that he got shitty with a well-respected member of the forum without cause (and three years late to the party).

My frustration with you, @tripppleP; is that we (largely @MSMS3; and myself) have been trying to point you in the right direction, to well-researched and well-supported information. Even with our efforts, you keep asking what amount to the same questions over and over. It's not clear if you're looking for confirmation for your own opinions, if you're confused, if you're not actually reading and paying attention, or what. As MSMS3 said in his last response to you, "It’s like you either did not search or don’t like the answers, expecting to get a different answer to validate making a different decision."

If you want to make a different decision, that's fine. You don't have to trust us, the forum, or even Mazda themselves; that's entirely your prerogative. Just don't keep asking the same questions if you don't want to get the same answers.

In my last response to you, @tripppleP;, I gave you the single most important and useful resource on this forum (aside from the shop manual itself). Please read the data that @Inquisitive; put together over years to help you and everyone else on this platform out.
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 Old 11-04-2019, 01:33 PM   #13
 
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Originally Posted by Vansquish View Post
Hopefully, you can see it from our side too. When the same questions get asked repeatedly and more and more people answer them with partial or bad information, it gets harder and harder to search. The forum is a kind of database. If you work on the management side of that database, it gets really frustrating to have to keep redirecting everyone away from bad information and towards good information.

My particular frustration with @Sorrento; is that he got shitty with a well-respected member of the forum without cause (and three years late to the party).

My frustration with you, @tripppleP; is that we (largely @MSMS3; and myself) have been trying to point you in the right direction, to well-researched and well-supported information. Even with our efforts, you keep asking what amount to the same questions over and over. It's not clear if you're looking for confirmation for your own opinions, if you're confused, if you're not actually reading and paying attention, or what. As MSMS3 said in his last response to you, "It’s like you either did not search or don’t like the answers, expecting to get a different answer to validate making a different decision."

If you want to make a different decision, that's fine. You don't have to trust us, the forum, or even Mazda themselves; that's entirely your prerogative. Just don't keep asking the same questions if you don't want to get the same answers.

In my last response to you, @tripppleP;, I gave you the single most important and useful resource on this forum (aside from the shop manual itself). Please read the data that @Inquisitive; put together over years to help you and everyone else on this platform out.
Vansquish, do you have nothing better to do than police this forum and grill new members? Do you notice there is hardly anyone replying to posts any longer? Perhaps its the environment you are making here.

I have been a long term member to several forums and understand sticking up for long term members but you are scaring away prospective new members and possible great future members like myself. I have never seen behavior to this extreme on any other forum.

To date I have progressed from never touching a car to doing my first oil change along with learning what oil and filter is best, upgrading to autotech HPFP, adding a proper intake/TIP for the K04, deciding on a TMIC for my needs amongst learning the abreviations and lingo...I have a full time job and am not a mechanic. I spend all my free time reading about my car and its still not enough for you. Each time I ask a question you ask if I am even doing any effort on my own. The search function of any forum sucks as well as here. You may find five threads of discussions/arguments and hopefully find the diamond in the ruff with the information that you need yet you have no clue if the information is correct or up to date. The same goes for the old stickies. Who knows if the information is dated and irrelevant at this time.

I appreciate all the help from all the memebers here including yourself and MS3 but your expectations are unrealistic. I cannot reaearch anymore than I currently am without quitting my job. The last question I asked in my own last thread would have been both made fun of yet answered thoroughly if asked on facebook. This website is becoming obsolete with all the past threads telling members to research and donate.

I would like to learn and contribute as a bottom line but disagree with your thoughts on what this website really is. The website is a forum where people ask high and low level questions and learn from the questions. The toxic environment is hurting the website and not helping it.
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 Old 11-04-2019, 03:06 PM   #14
 
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Originally Posted by Sorrento View Post
User not responding until June 2021

lol

Btw… resumes are only valid when you properly show the skills, or else someone could say “degree in what? After what you posted before???…

Insecure 30 something, early 40’s… with cero race experience. I don’t care about that, that was never my point (Virtue Signaling like you immediately did, after condescending and patronizing language)… not everyone has 28 years racing experience, as a driver, team owner, team engineer, chief mechanic in the end… we are here to share information, not to fight trolls or very insecure posters.
A chance lost is always a sad thing, one day you will understand this.

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Sir, you have been slit wide open, eviscerated by a skilled surgeon, figuratively speaking, with your guts hanging out all over the floor and you don't even recognize that it has happened. What a shame. That was not Vansquish's intent as a moderator, but it is the result.

More time listening and less time pontificating might be a desirable trait to acquire, if not too late.
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2017 Audi Q5 3.0 T (supercharged) Stage 2+ EPL tune, JHM overdrive crank pulley, EPL supercharger pulley, ZF8 TCU tune, aFe/034 intake, modified air box. 480 hp.

Sunlight Silver '08 MS3 GT Mods: (Sold 1/25/2019 after 10+ years of ownership)
BNR Stage 1 (to fix smoking K04 turbo), TurboXS 3" Catless DP/RP "Stealthback" into stock CBE, Vibrant 3 inch Ultra Quiet Resonator in RP section, Magnaflow 3 1/2" exhaust tip, Mazdaspeed CAI w/air straightener and K&N conical filter, NGK 6510 Iridium IX one step colder plugs, Hypertech tune, Autotech HPFP internals, Stock BPV (works perfectly), Yokohama Advan Neova AD08R's (stock size on stock rims); Hawk HPS pads; SURE RMM; Grimmspeed EBCS (2 port mode), Bilstein B6's, SPC rear camber arms.

Last edited by MSMS3; 11-04-2019 at 03:30 PM.
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 Old 11-04-2019, 03:45 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by tripppleP View Post
Vansquish, do you have nothing better to do than police this forum and grill new members? Do you notice there is hardly anyone replying to posts any longer? Perhaps its the environment you are making here.

I have been a long term member to several forums and understand sticking up for long term members but you are scaring away prospective new members and possible great future members like myself. I have never seen behavior to this extreme on any other forum.

To date I have progressed from never touching a car to doing my first oil change along with learning what oil and filter is best, upgrading to autotech HPFP, adding a proper intake/TIP for the K04, deciding on a TMIC for my needs amongst learning the abreviations and lingo...I have a full time job and am not a mechanic. I spend all my free time reading about my car and its still not enough for you. Each time I ask a question you ask if I am even doing any effort on my own. The search function of any forum sucks as well as here. You may find five threads of discussions/arguments and hopefully find the diamond in the ruff with the information that you need yet you have no clue if the information is correct or up to date. The same goes for the old stickies. Who knows if the information is dated and irrelevant at this time.

I appreciate all the help from all the memebers here including yourself and MS3 but your expectations are unrealistic. I cannot reaearch anymore than I currently am without quitting my job. The last question I asked in my own last thread would have been both made fun of yet answered thoroughly if asked on facebook. This website is becoming obsolete with all the past threads telling members to research and donate.

I would like to learn and contribute as a bottom line but disagree with your thoughts on what this website really is. The website is a forum where people ask high and low level questions and learn from the questions. The toxic environment is hurting the website and not helping it.
You'd know if I was grilling you. I do practice law, after all. The reason that most people are gone from this particular forum is that they've gone to another forum and/or FB because of the influx of spoon-feeding requests and some internal political/bureaucratic turmoil.

This forum has always been different than the others. Respect has always been earned here, not given out freely. As a result, this forum has always required a thicker skin of its members.

If you need assistance searching the forum (because you're right, the search function here is ass), please try the custom search tool in my signature, or do a google search with "site: mazdaspeedforums.org [your search query here]". You'll have better luck this way.
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 Old 11-04-2019, 03:57 PM   #16
 
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@tripppleP; Well, Vansquish is the forum moderator. It's his job to try to keep us on track. That does involve helping us find information, but does not involve responsibility to spoon feed us when the question has been asked and answered repeatedly.

Not so much defending him (he's a big boy and can well-defend himself) as simply observing that one does not have to have super computer skills to use the link he provided to efficiently search this gold mine for information.

I'd add one possibly helpful observation. This forum, like every other place on the Web, has a lot of misinformation. It can be a challenge to separate the wheat from the chaff.

One way that might help: When looking at the threads you found in your search, look at the post count of the poster, their Reputation Power, their mod list and the number of times they have been liked, quoted or groaned. That might give you a clue as to whether the person is just guessing, just throwing out an unsupported opinion, or has enough experience to make the opinion worthwhile. Supporting data is always a plus.

I'm data driven and like to see that before making decisions.

Vansquish and I do not always agree. That is refreshing and no offense is to be taken. That's how we learn. Its good to re-evaluate what we thought we know in light of new information. But, before rejecting an established solution there should to be new data, not just new opinions or rejection of information because it does not fit our idea of how it "ought to be."

I've tried to save you some money by thoughtfully (and with supporting data) pointing out that certain purchases might not get you where you are trying to go or might not have very much value for the buck. I'll keep trying to do that as long as I am here.

I modestly suggest that most of the former users that are not here anymore are more likely to have left because they moved on to other platforms. I have moved on, but still try to contribute. Maybe that is a mistake? I thought that sharing almost eleven years of experience with this specific platform might be helpful. This is a mature platform, meaning that the cars have been out of production for quite some time. Vendors and manufacturers are not so keen on developing new products. This is why mining the old threads is particularly useful. There is hardly any way to modify these cars that has not been the subject of one or more good threads. Its pretty much all there.
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2017 Audi Q5 3.0 T (supercharged) Stage 2+ EPL tune, JHM overdrive crank pulley, EPL supercharger pulley, ZF8 TCU tune, aFe/034 intake, modified air box. 480 hp.

Sunlight Silver '08 MS3 GT Mods: (Sold 1/25/2019 after 10+ years of ownership)
BNR Stage 1 (to fix smoking K04 turbo), TurboXS 3" Catless DP/RP "Stealthback" into stock CBE, Vibrant 3 inch Ultra Quiet Resonator in RP section, Magnaflow 3 1/2" exhaust tip, Mazdaspeed CAI w/air straightener and K&N conical filter, NGK 6510 Iridium IX one step colder plugs, Hypertech tune, Autotech HPFP internals, Stock BPV (works perfectly), Yokohama Advan Neova AD08R's (stock size on stock rims); Hawk HPS pads; SURE RMM; Grimmspeed EBCS (2 port mode), Bilstein B6's, SPC rear camber arms.
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 Old 11-07-2019, 11:28 AM   #17
 
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Vanzquish and MS3,

I really do appreciate the help and the information you have given me with my car. I'm not going anywhere and plan to continue to learn, ask questions, help guide others and agree/disagree with members from time to time. I'll take your advice and further hone in my searching skills but cannot promise to not ask high and low level questions here and there.

Vansquish, my father is a lawyer and I spent my entire life "convincing the judge and jury" about every decision I make in life. Maybe your personality itches what my personality wants to scratch and our relationship is alike a screw and screw driver meeting in the middle but seeing things from different directions. But again, I appreciate your help.
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