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 Old 07-17-2017, 12:23 PM   #1
 
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Default Why the f*** are my BAT's so high?

Evening Gents,

So, I'm in the middle of getting my 2010 MS3 pro tuned, and whilst recording a 2,500 4th WOT Test my boost temps were hitting a max thresh hold that limits load and boost after 30 minutes of driving and 2 or 3 pulls, I checked through my previous logs around 2016 when I got the speed and the AP, and noticed it was doing the exact same thing. It's 2017, trumps president and my Mazda is not ZZB yet and it's been like this for a while since I've never heard of anyone else remotely having this problem so i'm gonna be the first noob to ask it.. could this just be a bad AP? or possible that my MAP sensor is totally dickered? It's stock and I've ordered an aftermarket one.

car starts fine, boosts fine, shifts fine, oil changes done every 3,000-3,500 km, generally loved..

Part of the WOT log
http://i.imgur.com/cArRC8R.png

cheers

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 Old 07-17-2017, 02:17 PM   #2
 
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Totally, and completely....wait for it....normal.
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 Old 07-17-2017, 02:43 PM   #3
 
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Want lower BAT, install a front mount and/or inject meth.

You want to check if the sensor is good, check the temperature when engine is cold after 1 night rest with the hood open. It should read close to ambiant temp....
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 Old 07-17-2017, 02:59 PM   #4
 
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It's normal as the temperature doesn't necessarily change that much in a tenth of a second.

Those BATs do seem pretty high, especailly if you're in Canada. I'm in Florida and when it's 90 degrees out, my BATs are generally between 108 and 165. Is this after 20-30 minutes of constant racing or am I missing something?
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 Old 07-17-2017, 03:35 PM   #5
 
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thank you for the responses.

My tuner advised me my boost temps were hitting a threshold that limits load and boost. and he'd never seen it before, it seemed that the repeated temps were the factor.

This is maybe after 20-30 minutes of city driving.
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 Old 07-17-2017, 03:40 PM   #6
 
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You and your tuner fail
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 Old 07-17-2017, 03:54 PM   #7
 
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Originally Posted by tegxsi View Post
You and your tuner fail
thank you bro
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 Old 07-17-2017, 04:50 PM   #8
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Who is your tuner?
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 Old 07-17-2017, 05:22 PM   #9
 
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Originally Posted by pieceofpuu View Post
thank you for the responses.

My tuner advised me my boost temps were hitting a threshold that limits load and boost. and he'd never seen it before, it seemed that the repeated temps were the factor.

This is maybe after 20-30 minutes of city driving.
I didn't notice the high boost temps. I responded to the question if the readings should repeat. Anyhow, what was ambient temp? Is your intercooler stock?
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 Old 07-17-2017, 09:02 PM   #10
 
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Intake air temperature is 86, but BATs are 180ish. That's an outrageous differential. Your car should be limiting boost/load at those temps. Something is seriously wrong to get those kinds of temperatures. Intercooler status?

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 Old 07-18-2017, 06:20 AM   #11
 
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Maybe someone played with the air ducking or the car was heat soaked before the pull. If you keep making pull over and over during a hot day, all the engine will overheat if you don't give it a rest.

But we can see he is close to knock and the temp is still rising...With that high bat it isn't that bad...

I would be curious to see the BAT after cruising 5-10miles at 65-70mph on the highway...
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 Old 07-18-2017, 06:51 AM   #12
 
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I have a stock intercooler on the car right now, TRE kit is on the way, during that 4th gear wot we had driven around for 30 minutes maybe, 2 or 3 pulls but nothing extreme.. I'm tuning with Hypnotic.
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 Old 07-18-2017, 09:02 AM   #13
 
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Originally Posted by pieceofpuu View Post
I have a stock intercooler on the car right now, TRE kit is on the way, during that 4th gear wot we had driven around for 30 minutes maybe, 2 or 3 pulls but nothing extreme.. I'm tuning with Hypnotic.
If Hypnotic tuned then just do what Rob recommends. He is more than capable on the mazdaspeed platform. This thread seems unnecessary now. lol
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 Old 07-18-2017, 09:08 AM   #14
 
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with the car not started, the AP reads 70 for Boost Temperature, after 10 or so minutes of driving it went to 125 F, after 20 minutes or so 135-145-153, looking back on my WOT test it was around 27 (Celsius) (80 F) out and I had driven for at least 20 to 30 minutes.

Originally Posted by tegxsi View Post
If Hypnotic tuned then just do what Rob recommends. He is more than capable on the mazdaspeed platform. This thread seems unnecessary now. lol
It is sure, but since Rob had never seen it before I figured maybe someone else had experienced this or might have an idea
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 Old 07-18-2017, 09:17 AM   #15
 
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so the sensor doesn't seem broken then.

But keep in mind the sensor is bolted to an aluminium intake and reading the air inside that intake. So when there isn't enough airflow to cool it down, you read trapped and heated air reflecting the engine temperature. (At iddle for exemple) This is why it would read 150f when cruizing with low throttle and should drop as soon as you wot it before it would start increasing again with boost...

Btw all plastic deflectors and ducking must be there, if you miss some, the IC won't work right. If the fins are too much bent, it may also reduce efficiency...

So look at the live valu, not the peak one while driving.
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 Old 07-18-2017, 09:45 AM   #16
 
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Originally Posted by Jeff23spl View Post
so the sensor doesn't seem broken then.

But keep in mind the sensor is bolted to an aluminium intake and reading the air inside that intake. So when there isn't enough airflow to cool it down, you read trapped and heated air reflecting the engine temperature. (At iddle for exemple) This is why it would read 150f when cruizing with low throttle and should drop as soon as you wot it before it would start increasing again with boost...

Btw all plastic deflectors and ducking must be there, if you miss some, the IC won't work right. If the fins are too much bent, it may also reduce efficiency...

So look at the live valu, not the peak one while driving.
Thank you for the response man.

That's very interesting and I never thought about the trapped/heated air. I did notice as I floored it at 2,500 the BAT did indeed drop (slowly), and right around 4,600 RPM it slowly climbs up in temperatures up to 181 F.

I currently have the intercooler exposed, no plastic shroud, some of the fins are bent on the inter cooler but it's not bad enough to cause this. As for checking the live values i'll have a friend go with me so I focus on the road.

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 Old 07-18-2017, 10:05 AM   #17
 
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Originally Posted by pieceofpuu View Post
Thank you for the response man.

That's very interesting and I never thought about the trapped/heated air. I did notice as I floored it at 2,500 the BAT did indeed drop (slowly), and right around 4,600 RPM it slowly climbs up in temperatures up to 181 F.

I currently have the intercooler exposed, no plastic shroud, some of the fins are bent on the inter cooler but it's not bad enough to cause this. As for checking the live values i'll have a friend go with me so I focus on the road.

My Mods as follows:
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You say that your plastic shroud is removed. Have you tried returning the shroud and duct-work to stock to see if this helps your BATs? up until recently, I ran stock TMIC with only the AP and HPFP upgrade. I still had far better BATs here in Florida where it's much hotter. I don't have my logs from this time on my work PC, but when I get home, I'll try and check that to see what I was getting. I upgraded my SRI, TP, and ETS TMIC all at once along with a tune pushing more boost. I remember feeling disappointed that my BATs were pretty similar to before, but then I realized that was because I was going from 14 to 20 PSI, which increases the heat substantially.

Something is causing your heat to build up over time time, and I'm thinking your not getting airflow to your intercooler somehow.
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 Old 07-18-2017, 10:21 AM   #18
 
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Ok so this thread should be renamed why the fuck are my bats so high

Originally Posted by pieceofpuu View Post
it slowly climbs up in temperatures up to 181 F.

I currently have the intercooler exposed, no plastic shroud
What about the rubber seal on the hood? The only other time ive read about bats that high is when a coolant hose was resting on part of a boost tube.
Put the shroud back on.
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 Old 07-18-2017, 10:28 AM   #19
 
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Originally Posted by Carskick View Post
You say that your plastic shroud is removed. Have you tried returning the shroud and duct-work to stock to see if this helps your BATs? up until recently, I ran stock TMIC with only the AP and HPFP upgrade. I still had far better BATs here in Florida where it's much hotter. I don't have my logs from this time on my work PC, but when I get home, I'll try and check that to see what I was getting. I upgraded my SRI, TP, and ETS TMIC all at once along with a tune pushing more boost. I remember feeling disappointed that my BATs were pretty similar to before, but then I realized that was because I was going from 14 to 20 PSI, which increases the heat substantially.

Something is causing your heat to build up over time time, and I'm thinking your not getting airflow to your intercooler somehow.
I have not but certainly I'm going to try it now and quadruple check for boost leaks, I plan on purchasing a better intake soon since I bought the setup used, cleaned it out fully including the filter before Installing, never slipped off the turbo from pressure of anything like that, it does feel since I installed the Hypnotic base map for my car that it does kind of get bogish when building boost, never experienced that before.

Originally Posted by 5doorsoffury View Post
Ok so this thread should be renamed why the fuck are my bats so high



What about the rubber seal on the hood? The only other time ive read about bats that high is when a coolant hose was resting on part of a boost tube.
Nothing like that, they're setup like they should be. Top right touches turbo and tmic only and bottom touches tmic and throttle body only.

idk this is a weirdo, I do have another tmic laying around and the shroud so i'll try both out.

Thank you to those who gave a fuck and shared input on my problem

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 Old 07-18-2017, 03:10 PM   #20
 
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it could be just the shroud...
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 Old 07-18-2017, 06:38 PM   #21
 
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Originally Posted by Jeff23spl View Post
it could be just the shroud...
here is another picture of a wot test with the shroud on, double checked for leaks on the inlet and intake.

http://i.imgur.com/Mz2DXni.png
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 Old 07-18-2017, 08:50 PM   #22
 
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Well something is causing crazy high BATs. Do they get that bad just cruising around as well? If you're holding boost, which is appears you are, I can't imagine that being the issue. You're logs look perfectly fine otherwise.
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 Old 07-18-2017, 09:00 PM   #23
 
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Originally Posted by Carskick View Post
Well something is causing crazy high BATs. Do they get that bad just cruising around as well? If you're holding boost, which is appears you are, I can't imagine that being the issue. You're logs look perfectly fine otherwise.
cruising bats are fine actually, this only seems to get excessive at 4,000+ rpm's during 4th gear WOT, I looked over quickly and noticed around 3,500 that my BAT was 135 (live reading)

Cruise before wot
http://i.imgur.com/GayldZi.png

on this log, 4,283 rpm is where it hits 120 BAT from 118 still at WOT and slowly but surely works its way up.

http://i.imgur.com/44ttelv.png
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 Old 07-18-2017, 09:59 PM   #24
 
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Originally Posted by pieceofpuu View Post
cruising bats are fine actually, this only seems to get excessive at 4,000+ rpm's during 4th gear WOT, I looked over quickly and noticed around 3,500 that my BAT was 135 (live reading)

Cruise before wot
http://i.imgur.com/GayldZi.png

on this log, 4,283 rpm is where it hits 120 BAT from 118 still at WOT and slowly but surely works its way up.

http://i.imgur.com/44ttelv.png
Which all looks perfectly normal. BATs are usually a bit higher when cruising, and begin to drop when you first get on the gas. As boost holds and RPMs climb, it goes back up. 129 to 118 back to 125 is perfectly normal. Then you get a little spike after the run from the heat generated. But getting to 180 is not normal.
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 Old 07-18-2017, 10:45 PM   #25
 
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Yeah it really isn't.

It's hitting 190 after I let off at 6k.

The fmic should be here in a week, i'll see what BATs are like once installed.
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 Old 07-19-2017, 06:48 AM   #26
 
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let us know
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 Old 07-20-2017, 09:17 PM   #27
 
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My WOT BATs dropped by about 10 degrees with the shroud installed. But even back then I was only getting into the upper 140's at the end of a 4th gear pull. Completely stock everything with exception of the HPFP and self tune for 18psi.

I'll check back thru my ancient logs and see for sure. I'm having trouble digging thru cobwebs trying to use my memory.
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 Old 09-07-2017, 11:46 AM   #28
 
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Hey gents I haven't forgot about you all

So, after this post I did add back ALL plastic schrouds but there really was no difference, I think my tmic was garbage, the fins weren't in the greatest condition but not critical.

On the tuners base map ***** not ots lol.
Here is a new log from ending WOT with the fmic on, that bat difference though.



Problem Solved.
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 Old 09-07-2017, 12:00 PM   #29
 
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Originally Posted by pieceofpuu View Post
Hey gents I haven't forgot about you all

So, after this post I did add back ALL plastic schrouds but there really was no difference, I think my tmic was garbage, the fins weren't in the greatest condition but not critical.

On the tuners base map ***** not ots lol.
Here is a new log from ending WOT with the fmic on, that bat difference though.



Problem Solved.
46 degrees above your intake temp for an FMIC doesn't seem that great to me, but no doubt an improvement over the TMIC.
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 Old 09-07-2017, 12:04 PM   #30
 
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Originally Posted by Fstrnyou View Post
46 degrees above your intake temp for an FMIC doesn't seem that great to me, but no doubt an improvement over the TMIC.
noob question: Whats an ideal temp? I'm using the JBR Inlet/SRI Combo Powerpath
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 Old 09-07-2017, 12:08 PM   #31
 
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With your intake temps in the 70's, it was most likely in the 60's outside/ambient. So really, your BATs were mid-50's above ambient. Maybe I dream big, but I would think 20-30 degrees above ambient is reasonable.
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 Old 09-07-2017, 12:41 PM   #32
 
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interesting, I will investigate further, could be a dirty maf or something, comparing to other logs it is a we bit high.. Thanks man.
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 Old 09-08-2017, 10:28 AM   #33
 
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Bats depend of a lot of other things too. Boost level, turbo size, how much heat soaked is the engine bay, was the AC on for a while or not etc....

usually mine with a small fmic, a gt2871 +/-25psi, 1000cc W/meth and 75-80f ambiant while cruizing above 50mph: It rise to 125-130F because the intake heat up without enough flow to cool down
When i wot the car, it drop slowly to 80-90 as the meth goes and slowly get back with +5deg at the end of a pull in 4th gear....If i do a lot of pull in a row, it can rise 10-15deg instead of 5 but i also see my intake temp rising with it following engine bay increasing temp....
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