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 Old 12-10-2018, 08:06 AM   #1
 
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Default Vacuum issues

First off, I know I should donate, I know I’ll get burned and yes, I’ve searched but I haven’t found anything that replicates my issue(s) exactly. This is drawn out but will try to keep it as short as possible and as much information as possible. I’m really just looking at where else to check.

So usually my LTFT are around -.78% to +6/7.00% really depending on the outside air temps 30 degrees to 95 degrees is the area of temp those numbers reflect. My vacuum at idle when the car is warm is around -10.10 to -10.20 psi.

**1st issue** So one day I noticed my LTFT going up to about +8%~ from +5-6% and my STFT would get up to +12/+17 with the occasional +25. My vacuum was around -9.6/-9.7. So I was looking around and noticed my hose coming off the PCV had oil on it. I moved the hose a little and my idle got rough and LTFT shot up. The hose was cracked. I fixed that and checked the PCV valve. DONE!

**2nd issue** After fixing the hose my LTFT were around +7% and idle was still hanging around -9.7psi. I looked at the PCV valve a week later and noticed oil around it again. I took it back apart and the O-ring the seats the valve in the oil air separator on the block seemed to be the culprit but in reality I didn’t seat the PCV valve completely…stupid mistake. All I had was a set of generic O-rings and tried to make it work until I got a new OEM O-ring. It seemed to work, I didn’t notice any oil but my LTFT was at +10 and vacuum was still off compared to before(-9.7psi.)

So I got a new PCV valve O-ring, BPV gasket, intake and throttle body thermal gaskets which I had before from JBR. All new hose clamps. Basically everything with the intake system from the Air filter to the cylinder head has new gaskets and clamps.

I went over everything while replacing these parts and checked each line, intercooler, intake manifold, intake for a leak with a smoke machine and found nothing. So I finished this up and reset the ECU.

So after a couple miles my LTFT at idle and very light throttle were +13-+14% but under part throttle say 20% or more they would be around +6-+7%. My vacuum at idle was around -9.7-10 psi which is a little better. After driving it for a hour and letting it sit there idling my vacuum was at -10.20psi and my LTFT started to drop quickly -14, -12, -11, -9 and dropped to -7.03 at idle after a couple of minutes. I was like great! Its back to normal.

I let it sit for a couple hours and drive it and its back to +14 LTFT and my idle vacuum is -9.7 psi but after driving it, it wouldn’t change in LTFT and my idle vacuum was around -9.9/-10psi. I smoke tested the intake system and didn’t find any leaks, I triple checked every connection. Obviously there is a leak but I’m stumped since I can’t find anything with a smoke machine or boost test and every time I take the thing apart it gets worse it seems.

The only O-rings i didn’t replace were the ones for the purge valve and brake booster lines where they go into the intake which doesn’t look like they are available separate. Anybody have any other ideas of where to check? Something, anything? Car drives and runs great, idles fine but fuel mileage has gone down. The LTFT seem to fluctuate and I’ve notice at very light throttle my AFR’s seems to jump around erratically but only at a certain throttle percentage (AFR 13.5-15.5). I’ve also notice my AFR at idle will fluctuate, I could be idling and its running slight rich 13.9-14.6 and then the next light it will be lean around 14.8-15.3 everything it goes back to 14.7 after a couple seconds but the LTFT seems to be constantly adjusting slightly.

Things i've done so far
- Idle vacuum seems to get better as the car is driven for a long period time but not where it use to be.
- Whole intake system has been re-done with new clamps and gaskets
- Checked for exhaust leaks
- Smoke tested/boost leak tested intake tract and found nothing.
- Did compression and leak down and was even across cylinders and normal for age of motor. 92K on car. Compression was around 180-182 between all 4 and leak down was around 12-14% between all 4.
- Rebuilt BPV
- No oil leaks
- Cleaned MAF
- LTFT from drive cycle range average +6 - +14.00
- STFT from drive cycle range average -7 - +17 with occasional +25
- No check engine light
- Spark plugs look good

Last edited by ANDERMAT1984; 12-11-2018 at 11:37 AM.
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 Old 12-11-2018, 11:20 AM   #2
 
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Default

I really want to read it but just cant. Go back and edit your post so its not a WALL OF TEXT. And you may get some responses.

Use the return key multiple times ok?
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 Old 12-11-2018, 11:39 AM   #3
 
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Originally Posted by Thor Hammer View Post
I really want to read it but just cant. Go back and edit your post so its not a WALL OF TEXT. And you may get some responses.

Use the return key multiple times ok?

My apologies, hopefully the edit helps some.
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 Old 02-11-2019, 11:46 AM   #4
 
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Default FIXED **PROBLEM SOLVED**

SO THE REASON THE AP READ A LOW VACUUM WAS BECAUSE OF A BAD MAP SENSOR BUT CAUSED NO DRIVEABILITY ISSUES OR CHECK ENGINE LIGHT. CAR NOW READS -10.30 TO -10.40 AT IDLE COMPARED TO -9.7 TO -10.00 AT IDLE.

LACK OF LOW END POWER AND EXHAUST AFTERFIRE/POPS WAS CAUSED BY A LEAKING CHECK VALVE.

AS FOR LTFT TRIMS BEING ALL OVER THE PLACE, HAVING HIGH STFT SPIKES, AND IDLE FLUCTUATIONS WHEN COMING TO A STOP. THAT WAS CAUSED BY TURBULENCE FROM THE AIR FILTER. AFTER ROTATING THE AIR FILTER AND ADJUSTING THE DISTANCE OF THE AIR FILTER FROM THE MAF HOUSING THINGS SEEM TO BE BACK TO NORMAL (LTFT ARE AROUND +3/+8 IN 35 DEGRESS TEMPS). I STILL GET OCCASIONAL STFT SPIKES BUT THAT'S JUST THE NATURE OF THE BEAST. I'M PLANNING ON TRYING DIFFERENT AIR FILTERS AND EXTENDING THE AIR FILTER FROM THE MAF HOUSING ABOUT 2-3" WITH A HONEYCOMB AIR STRAIGHTENER TO SEE IF THAT RESOLVES THE REST OF THE ISSUE. BUT AT THIS POINT I'M SET ON THE AIR FILTER AND TURBULENCE WITH A JBR 3.5 ALUMINUM INTAKE.

I'VE COME TO THIS CONCLUSION ON AIR TURBULENCE BASED OFF TURNING THE AIR FILTER EVERY 90 DEGREES WOULD CAUSE THE STFT AT IDLE TO EITHER ADD +10/+12% FUEL OR -3/-5% OF FUEL. SAME CHANGES IN READINGS ALSO CAUSED BY MOVING THE AIR FILTER CLOSER OR FURTHER AWAY FROM THE MAF HOUSING.
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 Old 02-11-2019, 12:24 PM   #5
 
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cap lock sucks, unstable fuel trims call for a boost leak test. looking and replacing o-ring worth nothing unless you pressure test the system. I'm not fan of a smoke test because it doesn't reflect the real working conditions. Adding 15-20psi can bring some sealed device to leak but you won't see anything bad unless you stress them to 15-20psi....If you have bed at your piping ends to help retain silicone coupler, you will likely ear surprises when applying boost to test them....Clean your TB to help idle afr. air straighter may help, industrial flow meter recommend to have a minimum of 4 times the pipe diameter in length to be free from bends or reflective device. Unless you have a specific tune for a 3.5'' maf hosing, it won't work on stock tune...Rotating a conic shaped air filter shouldn't affect fuel trim but distance to maf could affect a bit if set too close. Dirty intake valves can also affect your bottom fuel trims...
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 Old 02-11-2019, 12:39 PM   #6
 
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Originally Posted by Jeff23spl View Post
cap lock sucks, unstable fuel trims call for a boost leak test. looking and replacing o-ring worth nothing unless you pressure test the system. I'm not fan of a smoke test because it doesn't reflect the real working conditions. Adding 15-20psi can bring some sealed device to leak but you won't see anything bad unless you stress them to 15-20psi....If you have bed at your piping ends to help retain silicone coupler, you will likely ear surprises when applying boost to test them....Clean your TB to help idle afr. air straighter may help, industrial flow meter recommend to have a minimum of 4 times the pipe diameter in length to be free from bends or reflective device. Unless you have a specific tune for a 3.5'' maf hosing, it won't work on stock tune...Rotating a conic shaped air filter shouldn't affect fuel trim but distance to maf could affect a bit if set too close. Dirty intake valves can also affect your bottom fuel trims...
I'VE BOOST TESTED AND SMOKE TESTED THE CAR AND FOUND NO LEAKS. I AGREE IT NEEDS TO BE DONE AT OPERATIONAL CONDITIONS AND I HAVE TESTED UP TO 30PSI AND FOUND NOTHING EXCEPT A LEAKING CHECK VALVE. AND THE SMOKE MACHINE I'VE BUILT IT GOOD FOR UP TO 15PSI. I'VE ALREADY CLEANED THE TB AND WAS ALREADY FAIRLY CLEAN TO BEGIN WITH AND DIDN'T MAKE A CHANGE.
I DO HAVE A COMPLETED TUNE FOR A 3.5" INTAKE. AND YES, IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE WHY ROTATING A CONICAL AIR FILTER WOULD CHANGE FUEL TRIMS BUT IT DOES. INTAKE VALVES HAVE ALSO BEEN CLEANED 10K AGO. AFTER REPLACING THE CHECK VALVE, MAP SENSOR AND ADJUSTING THE AIR FILTER THE CAR IS BACK TO WHERE THE FUEL TRIMS USE TO BE AND FUEL MILEAGE IS BACK TO NORMAL.

THANKS FOR THE HEADS UP ON THE MAF DISTANCE AND BENDS.

AND YES CAP LOCKS SUCKS BUT I'M WRITING THIS AND WORKING AND WE ONLY USE CAPS AT WORK :/
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 Old 02-11-2019, 06:25 PM   #7
 
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-22 inches of mercury is normal at idle. That is -10.8 psi vacuum.
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 Old 02-12-2019, 04:28 AM   #8
 
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Originally Posted by MSMS3 View Post
-22 inches of mercury is normal at idle. That is -10.8 psi vacuum.

CORRECT, MY VACUUM/BOOST GAUGE WOULD SHOW -22 IN/HG BUT MY AP WOULD SHOW ONLY AROUND -9.8PSI OR -19.7 IN/HG. BUT ONCE I REPLACED THE MAP SENSOR THEN IT SHOWED AROUND -10.4PSI ON THE AP.
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