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 Old 04-11-2014, 07:37 AM   #1
 
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Default white smoke after e85 mix

whats up guys. so monday i decided to put in a 3 gallon mix of e85 on monday, the car is running fine if not better. so i decided to fill back up the same way yesterday. this morning the car is smoking at idle for a few mins then stops. everything on my ap seems to be ok from what i can tell (i aint no expert). i did a datalog yesterday if someone can see if they see anything or what the smoke could be from. mods are cobb downpipe, autotech fuel internals, speed daddy catback, k&n sri
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 Old 04-11-2014, 07:38 AM   #2
 
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running the stratified stage 2 ots map
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 Old 04-11-2014, 07:49 AM   #3
 
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So you're running a OTS map and just decided to throw in some corn?
Did you do this to test for knock or...?
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 Old 04-11-2014, 07:49 AM   #4
 
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Umm the incredibly lean AFR's could have something to do with it... you cant run E85 on an OTS map, you must be tuned for it. id consider 12.4 the leanest i would go on an E85 blend (tuned my own car on that for several years), but even still most people i tune on a 12.2... you're damn near 13 the entire pull.
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 Old 04-11-2014, 07:56 AM   #5
 
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yea i was seeing a little knock here and there nothing major, so someone said drop a couple gallons of e85 to see if it goes away or not. they said if it doesnt go away to its probably just engine noise. im stilling getting about the same knock. so what should i do? just run my car easy or maybe dump some low octane in it. whats causing the smoke?
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 Old 04-11-2014, 07:58 AM   #6
 
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White smoke comes out of mine too. From the weed
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 Old 04-11-2014, 08:00 AM   #7
 
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 Old 04-11-2014, 08:04 AM   #8
 
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Originally Posted by bshotts422 View Post
yea i was seeing a little knock here and there nothing major, so someone said drop a couple gallons of e85 to see if it goes away or not. they said if it doesnt go away to its probably just engine noise. im stilling getting about the same knock. so what should i do? just run my car easy or maybe dump some low octane in it. whats causing the smoke?
You can add a gallon for knock.. like one. You HAVE to change the fuel trims to run 3 gallons. Smoke could be from partially fucked rings, these cars don't like going lean... how long have you been beating on it like this? 2 tanks? do you drive the car hard normally?
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 Old 04-11-2014, 08:05 AM   #9
 
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here is a couple logs from last week before i put in the e85. why is the afr so high at the end?
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 Old 04-11-2014, 08:10 AM   #10
 
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You better baby the shit out of it tell the tank is empty and fill up with just gas and hope the smoking goes away
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 Old 04-11-2014, 08:23 AM   #11
 
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would it help if i add a lower octane fuel or just keep topping it off with 93 to try and dilute the mix?
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 Old 04-11-2014, 08:33 AM   #12
 
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Originally Posted by bshotts422 View Post
would it help if i add a lower octane fuel or just keep topping it off with 93 to try and dilute the mix?
I would go top off with 91 or whatever the map calls for, its not about the octain and baby it. Then get e-tuned asap. You could always just contact an etuner and grab a base map for 3 gallons of E. This is what I would do, I know I love me e map!
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 Old 04-11-2014, 08:33 AM   #13
 
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Originally Posted by bshotts422 View Post
would it help if i add a lower octane fuel or just keep topping it off with 93 to try and dilute the mix?
Why would you add a lower octane fuel?
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 Old 04-11-2014, 08:46 AM   #14
 
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do you have a turner to recommend so i can get a base map asap while im at work? and i figured lower octane might would help. guess i didnt read enough on e before putting some in, i thought 3 gallons wasnt that much
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 Old 04-11-2014, 09:04 AM   #15
 
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Originally Posted by bshotts422 View Post
do you have a turner to recommend so i can get a base map asap while im at work? and i figured lower octane might would help. guess i didnt read enough on e before putting some in, i thought 3 gallons wasnt that much
The octane of E85 isnt what causes issues, its the fact that its alcohol instead of petroleum. What this means, is its less volumetrically effecient than normal gasoline / Meaning you need to run more of it at any given time to achieve the appropriate stoich ratio of air to fuel.

You need to scale your fuel injectors to add more fuel so the car can accurately compensate for E85. Also, looking at your knock. While it is consistent, anything under 1* is likely just noise. The computer's logic is to pull 2x the "knock event detected," in timing. Basically a "knock event" of 1* will pull 2* of timing. Anything under 1* i'd brush off as chatter, between 1*-2* is something to keep an eye on to see if it repeats, over 2* needs to be addressed. Your first step however should be a compression test to determine the health of your motor.
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 Old 04-11-2014, 09:16 AM   #16
 
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LTFTs are at 15, I'd also be doing a MAF
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 Old 04-11-2014, 09:27 AM   #17
 
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Originally Posted by Ireland View Post
LTFTs are at 15, I'd also be doing a MAF
That has nothing to do with his MAF cal. It's because of the E content.
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 Old 04-11-2014, 09:41 AM   #18
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The car is running lean because the injector scalar is not set correctly for the E85 blend. However this is not causing the white smoke and while not ideal it is not dangerous to run until the tank is empty. So run the tank out, put in 93 pump fuel and then decide if you want a map done for E85. You don't need to rush into getting a base map for the fuel you are running ASAP. Doing things in a rush usually has poor results.

Also if you are running JUST an OTS map from us they are made for the JBR intake, not the K&N intake and that will skew your AFRs as well to the lean side since the K&N is a bigger intake. If you want to run an S-OTS PLUS map, this is going to be setup correctly for your intake.

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 Old 04-11-2014, 09:41 AM   #19
 
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if i just take it easy over the weekend should i be ok? im working doubles everyday. having to do this at work now. car has about 14,000 miles. this is really freaking me out! didn't think 3 gallons would hurt. what gauges should i set my ap on to keep an eye on? current is hfhp, boost, rpm, knock, and mass air
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 Old 04-11-2014, 09:45 AM   #21
 
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ill get the ots map when i get home tonight. and try to do the custom tune in a few weeks after a finishing installing my last upgrades.
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 Old 04-11-2014, 09:50 AM   #22
 
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Is the smoke coming from the exhaust or the engine bay? What kind of oil are you running?

Catted or Catless DP?
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 Old 04-11-2014, 09:55 AM   #23
 
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coming from exhaust, engine bay nothing, downpipe in catted, oil is catrol 5w20 i think. The exhaust has only been on about 6 weeks.
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 Old 04-11-2014, 09:57 AM   #24
 
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Originally Posted by bshotts422 View Post
coming from exhaust, engine bay nothing, downpipe in catted, oil is catrol 5w20 i think. The exhaust has only been on about 6 weeks.
5w20?

Wrong oil sir.
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 Old 04-11-2014, 09:59 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by bshotts422 View Post
coming from exhaust, engine bay nothing, downpipe in catted, oil is catrol 5w20 i think. The exhaust has only been on about 6 weeks.
Definitely run a 5W30 in there.

Pennzoil Platinum 5W30 is a good oil that is fairly affordable for these cars.
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 Old 04-11-2014, 10:00 AM   #26
 
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ok i cant remember the number but its what mazda dealership put in
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 Old 04-11-2014, 10:07 AM   #27
 
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How does your coolant look? If your coolant looks fine, then there is a decent chance that the thinner oil is leaking through turbo seals.
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 Old 04-11-2014, 10:13 AM   #28
 
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ok i just went to check is is 5w30
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 Old 04-11-2014, 10:52 AM   #29
 
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Originally Posted by Dimenus View Post
That has nothing to do with his MAF cal. It's because of the E content.
For sure, but I wouldn't think that much.
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 Old 04-11-2014, 10:57 AM   #30
 
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Originally Posted by Ireland View Post
For sure, but I wouldn't think that much.
It's possible that without the injector scalar and specific gravity calibrated for the e85 that it could skew his LTFTS by quite a bit.
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 Old 04-11-2014, 11:04 AM   #31
 
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Originally Posted by bshotts422 View Post
ok i cant remember the number but its what mazda dealership put in
If your not doing oil changes yourself, ALWAYS check what they put in. When I bought my car, they changed the oil and put 5w20 in. I argued with them that it wasnt correct and actually had to pull the owners manual out and show them. They thought it would be fine with 5w20 just like the mazda 3.
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 Old 04-11-2014, 11:56 AM   #32
 
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ok i just went on lunch break and still smoking pretty bad at idle afr is idling a 14.5. i still have a full tank. is it serious enough to go have a tank emptied?
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 Old 04-11-2014, 12:04 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by bshotts422 View Post
ok i just went on lunch break and still smoking pretty bad at idle afr is idling a 14.5. i still have a full tank. is it serious enough to go have a tank emptied?
The smoke is NOT from the fuel you are using. The smoke is there from a different source. You have to identify where it's coming from. Is it oil, coolant, or just water evaporation?

If you have very thin oil in the car it could be the turbo seals.
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 Old 04-11-2014, 12:05 PM   #34
 
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Like Lex said, e85 isn't going to cause what you are describing. Can you take a video of the smoke? The color and smell of the smoke will give you a good idea of what is getting burned up.
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 Old 04-11-2014, 12:10 PM   #35
 
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Originally Posted by Voltwings View Post
The octane of E85 isnt what causes issues, its the fact that its alcohol instead of petroleum. What this means, is its less volumetrically effecient than normal gasoline / Meaning you need to run more of it at any given time to achieve the appropriate stoich ratio of air to fuel.

You need to scale your fuel injectors to add more fuel so the car can accurately compensate for E85. Also, looking at your knock. While it is consistent, anything under 1* is likely just noise. The computer's logic is to pull 2x the "knock event detected," in timing. Basically a "knock event" of 1* will pull 2* of timing. Anything under 1* i'd brush off as chatter, between 1*-2* is something to keep an eye on to see if it repeats, over 2* needs to be addressed. Your first step however should be a compression test to determine the health of your motor.

This. Essentially;

E85 has less specific gravity meaning you need more of it to equal the same energy output as 91/93.
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 Old 04-11-2014, 12:10 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by Ireland View Post
.
I LOL'd
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 Old 04-11-2014, 12:22 PM   #37
 
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man i feel so stupid for doing this. last thing i need is to fuck up my car. ill take a video when i get off, it might be late tonight before i can post it. the smoke doesn't really have an usually smell. it was drifting about to my passenger door then gone.
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 Old 04-11-2014, 12:23 PM   #38
 
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You didn't get out and smell it?
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 Old 04-11-2014, 12:27 PM   #39
 
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Yea smells like exhaust no burnt oil or anthing


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 Old 04-11-2014, 12:35 PM   #40
 
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Originally Posted by bshotts422 View Post
Yea smells like exhaust no burnt oil or anthing


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Did you look for a source? It could be a bad DP install if you are getting smoke underneath the car and it's not going out of the back...
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