Leading Forum Software Developer Shafts Us...

[Haltech]

What a sad day for forum operators. Its not coincidental that the top forums across the world use Vbulletin, just like we do. From a webmasters stand point, its extremely flexible, versatile and very modifiable. If you don't like the way VB displays something, bam... php edit galore and you can code yourself what you need. Re-skinning a site is a breeze and you can't beat the easy language pack installations. Their mod community is the BEST out of all the forum software available, since it is operated by them. Vbulletin simply, is the BEST software you could use if you plan to run a forum and want to be fully customizable.

Vbulletin does have its drawbacks, especially for the backend admin role stuff. But, with a few mods installed, you can overcome it. When comparing it to say IPB, i prefer VB over it anyday. Webmasters are mixed with opinion when it comes to the beloved forum software they choose to run. However, if you pull up stats, VB leads IPB by nearly double the installed forums running across the net. This, is NOT a mistake my friends.

So, what is the purpose of this post? Well, i will tell you. Like many webmasters who have used vbulletin for the last 10 years, i was looking forward to Vbulletin 4.0. The plan, was to get MSF upgraded to 4.0 by years end, with new skins. With a host of proposed features, it was a no brainer to get a new updated core to our system, a better DB structure, less load and a hell of a lot of features for our community members. Unfortunately, Vbulletin (Jelfsoft Inc, UK ) was purchased by a US company called Internet Brands, who pretty much have a bad rep long before the take over. A few months back after the purchase, IB claimed they would not change the current licensing aspect of their forums. Us webmasters with current licenses, could upgrade to 4.0 without issue. This allows us to test drive the software and evaluate what impact it will have on our community and customization across the board.

IB pulled a fast one on everyone and basically placed a gun to our heads (webmasters) and tried to force many of us into a new licensing agreement. However, by doing so, they broke the original licensing agreement when we renewed this year. I for one, will never blindly buy software that:

a) i haven't even seen in operation
b) that i could not install myself to evaluate
c) screw myself with my current EULA just to get sucked into to double the fees and fewer the EOL path of my versions so they could generate a fucking cash cow.
d) straight up asinine

But, it goes a little further than that. Webmasters, actual site operators who converge on vb.com to discuss things admins discuss or get technical support, we're getting banned left and right for expressing their disappointment and straight out blatant lies by the company now known as Internet Brands, AKA... Vbulletin Solutions. Lying about the EULA, forcing webmasters into upgrading to 4.0 or else they will pay double when the software comes out, or forcing us to pay for something, sight unseen.. meaning, it wasnt even avail to download, let alone, even at beta stage at the start of the force upgrades in October.

I too expressed disappointment with how things were being handled and my opinions about the software and what features should be added as standard, only to have my posts deleted.

Its been hard to see this unfold. As a site owner, i've looked at other software to convert to. I tried the latest version of IPB, which i felt sucked pretty bad compared to Vbulletin. I do not like the pushy ass attitude of the new company who is in charge of VB and basically, i have chosen to wait this out.

We will remain on 3.7.x ... we wont upgrade to 3.8.x and we will NOT upgrade to 4.0.x until Vbulletin pulls their head out of their ass and fixes the situation they have created. We have to see what 4.0 will evolve in and if will fit the bill here. If it doesnt, i see no reason for the time being but to stay where we are at and continue on with 3.7.x until an upgrade decision is made later on down the road. Anyhow, below are a few articles explaining the hoopla and a world full of pissed off webmasters.

Forum king vBulletin muzzles paid-up protesters ? The Register
I Was Around Blog Archive vBulletin Holds Consumers? Puppy Hostage
Azhrialilu dot Com vBulletin 4 Revisited
vBulletin denies busting downloads in paid-up protester ban ? The Register
vBulletin 4 Forum - The Upgrade Dispute | The Law Professor
I Was Around Blog Archive vBulletin Holds Consumers? Puppy Hostage
The vBulletin Meltdown, and Great Customer Service from IPS - Dan Cryer - Leeds Web Developer
Case study: how to lose customers and destroy your brand | Blog | Econsultancy


Shining Light on Internet Brand's Disaster - vBTruth
vBFlames • Index page
vbull.net

[superskaterxes]

=(

[06Speed6]

LMAO what a bunch of dumbasses

[meelo88]

>.< SRSLY? DAMN BASTIDS!

[opt_ms3]

man that sucks, what a shame. fucking money hungry execs...

[Angr-E1]

Originally Posted by opt_ms3 man that sucks, what a shame. fucking money hungry execs...

coudnt have said it better myself. it sucks how the american buisness person is out for only one thing, making a ton of money. but this will eventually bite them in the ass. ppl will look into other solutions to run their sites and leave the Vbulliten software behind.

[Demi]

Fuck em.

[Haltech]

Well, they doubled the license fee's, yet could not provide a beta for owners to try out to see if the new software would fit the function of their current sites. What many of you may not realize is, when you customize a forum, going to a new version could break the mods you currently have installed.

Take for instance how i have the videos embedded from about 200 sites such as Youtube. Version 4 will def break that... However, Vbulletin claims to have incorporated it into the new release.. However, looking back into history about how them include such functions, they have ass it and you cannot expand on it unless you rewrite the code.

The new licensing scheme brought in a ton of revenue using their scare tactic. Either pay $130 now or pay $250 later... What it did was make their 3rd and 4th quarter profit look nice for the big exec's.

Secondly, IB is known for purchasing large forums that generate a lot of revenue. Once they take them over, they ruin the forum and it goes commercial afterwards.

Here are some REALLY interesting screen shots of what took place before this all started. The new owners of Vbulletin didnt even know how to set the permissions of their new forum, which allowed regular users to venture into their backstage and see what was really going on...

[phatfront]

VBul is cool, nothing really comes close to it. Are you running it over PHP 5.3? I wonder if they are releasing VB4 when PHP6 comes out. Still no need to screw the customer.

[Haltech]

lol, they just removed php4 support in upcoming VB 4.0... We are on PHP5, but VB themselves hasnt caught up to PHP in a long time. They just recently made PHP5 mandatory. You have site owners who dont even know how to update their RPM's, let alone, install php or mysql.

[Race Roots]

My experiences with Internet Brands Specifically.

They own RX-8 Club and many others, they have been sweeping forums left and right with down right asinine $$$ buyouts.

RX-8 Club used to be owned by an enthusiast but was then out right bought by IB.

They then Jacked up vendor fees nearly double and triple the current amounts and forcing many vendors off the forums due to the hard times.

They then precede to have suggestive linking to generic advertising throughout peoples posts and banners everywhere.

Personally I hate them and their customer service, outrageous prices, $$$ attitude.

They are creating a Monopoly in the automotive world and it now seems they are breaking into all general forums.

I would be concerned with what their plans are next with a company with this much power can significantly make a turn for the worse for the general public.

Next thing you know they will be charging users subscription fees to certain websites which already has been discussed.

[E4Performance]

It's just a cycle. People will get sick of IB forums and create new enthusiast owned forums and people will switch over. Just how this one was made when m3f and 247 went to shit.

For what it's worth, IB bought the measly little lotus forums for almost $150k.

[Fobio]

Originally Posted by E4Performance It's just a cycle. People will get sick of IB forums and create new enthusiast owned forums and people will switch over. Just how this one was made when m3f and 247 went to shit. For what it's worth, IB bought the measly little lotus forums for almost $150k.

holy smokes...

who wants in on a new HARDCORE Tata Nano forum?

[Ploppity Drown]

Sounds like some grade A bullshit. With any luck the interested parties won't drag any government regulatory agencies into this mess and the market will work it out on its own.

[Haltech]

Well ive been approached 2 times this year to sell MSF and each of them got the finger. Im an enthusiast and if i ran this site like a business man, it would be riddled with google adsense in post, footers, headers and side columns. I like one banner and that is strictly for vendors here who support this site. Member donations take care of the other side.

Everytime i scour an admin forum, the first thing i see is all about monetizing their forum... Then, you go and view their forum which is splattered with ads everywhere. It would piss me off something fierce to see ads in post bits here, so i wouldnt do it to any one of you. Sure, i could generate more money a month... but there is a cost to doing so... i wont go down that road.. As long as this forum makes enough money to operate, it will not be going anywhere.

IB is very evil with their hostile take over on the automotive forums.. BUT, their is one element of IB that i want for this forum and its their CMS system with the article plugin. Its something we need. Ive set the site up on the test area with Joomla and Wordpress with the forum wrapped within it. I dont like how it looks or the security risks involved. I also dont like to hack into 2 separate databases (bridge) to get them to work together.

So at this point, im just sitting back and waiting to see how 4.0 rolls out.. Give it until 4.2.x and revamp the entire site. Right now, my main focus is working on the server and increasing the i/o performance of the database in the meantime. Things are sort of slowing down with the larger database and i have to be a few steps ahead of it.

[ETERNAL]

Sorry to hear this man. This is wide spread across the internet. I saw it happen on Scionlife.com, the largest scion site. The owner told us we would notice no changes and it was simply a change in ownership on paper. Within a year, everything changed. They are buying forums and letting it be, then installing the software the way they want it, to maximize their profit with no care about the users or those that actually run the forum.

Its good to see a forum owner that is sticking up for the members and enthusiasts!!!

[Haltech]

Theres only a handful of site owners who actually care. The rest of them could give 2 shits less until their paypal account shows less money every month.

[Driver72]

Bummer, I've been on automotive forums for 10 years myself (about the time VB came around).
I remember the PITA that many of the old forums were and the software they used.
Over the years I've seen more and more forums convert to VB and it's been a pleasure.

Hope it all works out for the webmasters and forums users.

[Breakdown81]

Personally this is sad to hear. From my own experience I know what happens during corporate buyouts. Corporate culture is a delicate thing in the first place and it seems that IB has a mindset directly opposite what vb has built itself on. Something like that will only lead to internal discontent as eventually Ib will most likely send in hatchet men/women in the guise of corporate liasons or observers and the internal structure of vB will begin to dramatically change (ie, layoffs and replacements). Furthermore with the way that IB has initially alienated consumers during their takeover I feel confident in saying that vB is dead as a company and a platform. It would be foolish for the current vb Eu's to stay with vB and trust that 4.0 will come out as IB is promising. IB already has an established track record of playing to its own interests versus user interests, I'd expect all future software releases they make will reflect that. Sad to see, but on the other hand the door is now open for a new competitor to emerge or for the other leading software to gain in popularity until it is bought out.

[opt_ms3]

I haven't really messed around with any forum software, and I know how much work you have put into tweaking vB and making it awesome, but what about phpBB?

[bnoon]

If they offer to buy your forum again, sell it to them. Then the hardcore users can migrate to mazdaspeeders.org (made up site) and I'll webmaster it (if they make you sign a non-compete). I want to double fuck them like they fucked the existing site owners around the world.

[jeebus]

Most of what I see in those "leaked" posts is actually positive. Although it sounds like they aren't really following those practices. I've seen forums ruined. I run some boards and they are all non-profit, run on donations to pay for software and hosting. I donate my time to keep the sites running ok...it feels like a much tighter community because of it.

[Haltech]

Well they released VB4.0 Beta 4 and its a mound of dogshit. People are pissed.

Ive considered PHPbb but it will take a major overhaul to get things converted. Ive also looked at Invision Power Board 3 as well. Right now, im staying put and seeing what comes down the pike in 2010. Ill probably do one more skin upgrade in the coming months to reflect our Gen2 MS3s incorporated within our Gen 1 MS3 and MS6.

[jeebus]

Originally Posted by Haltech Well they released VB4.0 Beta 4 and its a mound of dogshit. People are pissed. Ive considered PHPbb but it will take a major overhaul to get things converted. Ive also looked at Invision Power Board 3 as well. Right now, im staying put and seeing what comes down the pike in 2010. Ill probably do one more skin upgrade in the coming months to reflect our Gen2 MS3s incorporated within our Gen 1 MS3 and MS6.

well that sucks, have you tried the beta?

PHPbb is ok for really small boards but I never have had good luck running larger boards with it. I'm sticking with VB 3.xx for now.

[martin_nj]

Originally Posted by Haltech Right now, my main focus is working on the server and increasing the i/o performance of the database in the meantime. Things are sort of slowing down with the larger database and i have to be a few steps ahead of it.

do you have everything hosted or are you running the servers yourself?

if it is your own box, go for SSDs =]