Gr8Speed's Never-Ending Build Thread

[Gr8Speed]

Well, I figured it's about time to start one of these. I'll start off with a short history of the car and of myself. Back in June of '13 I picked up an 08.5 MGM Gen1 after my old DD (Mazda6) got totaled in a hail storm. I bought the car bone stock and intended to do an intake/exhaust and call it a day. That changed rapidly when the good folks of NATOR convinced me otherwise. Mod after mod started piling up and have not stopped since. I've been through 3 different "builds" all with individual goals. Along the path, I have had many parts from many vendors, but most of them didn't stand up to my level of abuse. I drive this car the way it was meant to be driven. I contacted Jamie a while back and was asked to do a few media items to support products. Some of the banners, video production, etc. you see is my work. In our business dealings, Jamie and I got to talking more and more and eventually saw value in a partnership for both sides. Jamie has a vast knowledge of this platform and we share a very strong passion for doing things right. There is no skimping on components- no bullshit to make a profit. Make the best product you can and the sales will follow. I believe JBR has exhibited this attribute greatly in their short, yet impressive run as a major player on this platform so far. That said, it's only getting better. Anyway, I digress. Back to my little summary of the failboat Speed3.

My first build was a stock turbo build tuned by @Rob@Freektune; looking for the normal "bolted 50/50 e85" 320/330whp and 350wtq. After finishing this tune, I decided that I wanted to crank record numbers out of the k04 and would do crazy things to get myself there. Rob guided me and still to this day answers my million questions on tuning. He has really been a great friend and a great help in my adventure. I took this setup to the strip and ended up with a 13.6 @ 105 with a terrible 60' of 2.2x

My second build was a 2013 K04 with a bit of pre-turbo meth. My goal for this setup was to have an extremely fast 60-100 time and make crazy numbers above the norm on the stock turbo and to tune it myself. The end result was a 4.89 60-100 and 340whp/362wtq. Oh- and I broke it. Stay Off Drugs

My now third build step is a BNR S2 setup. My goals with this setup are to squeeze a 12 second pass on street legal tires (Nitto 555r) and a stock-sized turbo. I am currently working on a tune for this setup. In order to obtain this goal, I have the following relevant parts (and probably 10 more that I am forgetting):

Cobb V3 Accessport
3" ID MAF Full Intake (Made it myself)
Forge V1
KMD V2 HPFP Internals
Autolite Step Colder Plugs
M2 Catless Long Downpipe
PTP hPRV 2050
StreetUnit TMIC
H&R Springs
CS Front Brakes
JBR Trilogy 88/88/80
JBR Heavy Shift Knob
JBR Tru-torsion RSB
JBR Boost Tubes
JBR Oil Catch Can
JBR TIGS
JBR Short Shifter
PNP'd Intake Manifold + VTCS Delete
AEM Progessive 100% Meth w/10GPH Pre-TB
Bosch 3 BAR MAP
Grimmspeed 3-Port EBCS
BNR S2

I am going to try to keep this thread updated with the next steps of the project. My eventually goal is to have this car prepped for road racing. Hopefully next year!

-Gr8Speed/Austin Mielczarek/MeowMixTooning

[Gr8Speed]

Would you look at that! My BNR S2 is really a k04.

[Vansquish]

Nice spool-up, but those are sort of low numbers, aren't they? How much timing are you running?

[Gr8Speed]

Originally Posted by Vansquish Nice spool-up, but those are sort of low numbers, aren't they? How much timing are you running?

18* at redline. TBH I think something is up with the motor. I did a compression test a while back and while it wasn't perfect, it wasn't the worst. I think I need to do another one. I also am suspecting the my injector seals may be leaking. Seeing abnormally high IDCs. At 103,xxx miles I think the motor is just getting old.

I also don't know the logic of vDyno but there is quite a bit of stuff in the car weighing it down. I guessed at 3600lbs, could be a little more. Is the higher weight possibly making a difference even though I did load it in at that weight?

[Vansquish]

Higher weight will definitely cause VDyno to read higher than it would otherwise. The other thing that might be playing in is the ambient temperature. Do you happen to know what that was?

18° is pretty high on pump gas (though I see you're running WMI), and I've seen the around 310/340 with a reverse taper from 18psi to 21-22psi at redline. I'm thinking you're in that ballpark based on Revision 5. My car has as near as makes no difference 120k on it. I know there's more power in it, but I've been chasing vacuum leaks ever since I installed the S3, and I haven't really had a chance to mess with the tune other than with respect to MAF calibrations.

[Dimenus]

Originally Posted by Vansquish Higher weight will definitely cause VDyno to read higher than it would otherwise. The other thing that might be playing in is the ambient temperature. Do you happen to know what that was? 18° is pretty high on pump gas, and I've seen the around 310/340 with a reverse taper from 18psi to 21-22psi at redline. I'm thinking you're in that ballpark based on Revision 5. My car has as near as makes no difference 120k on it. I know there's more power in it, but I've been chasing vacuum leaks ever since I installed the S3, and I haven't really had a chance to mess with the tune other than with respect to MAF calibrations.

It's w/ meth. Not pump. He didn't say it explicitly but the pic is named BNR METH tune.

[Vansquish]

Originally Posted by Dimenus It's w/ meth. Not pump. He didn't say it explicitly but the pic is named BNR METH tune.

Thanks! I knew I was forgetting to make a caveat in my earlier comment. That's still a bit low overall for a WMI-tune on the BNRS3. Of course, 100k+ miles probably doesn't help, hehe.

[Gr8Speed]

Originally Posted by Vansquish Higher weight will definitely cause VDyno to read higher than it would otherwise. The other thing that might be playing in is the ambient temperature. Do you happen to know what that was? 18° is pretty high on pump gas (though I see you're running WMI), and I've seen the around 310/340 with a reverse taper from 18psi to 21-22psi at redline. I'm thinking you're in that ballpark based on Revision 5. My car has as near as makes no difference 120k on it. I know there's more power in it, but I've been chasing vacuum leaks ever since I installed the S3, and I haven't really had a chance to mess with the tune other than with respect to MAF calibrations.

I'm guessing the weight of the car to be 3600+ and have it set at 3600. Ambient temp on these revisions were all between 70-80* so I didn't even bother SAE correcting. Keep in mind this is a BNR S2, not an S3. 330/350 are really k04 numbers- but that turbo is also only a touch larger than a k04.

The real mystery to me is that on a k04 I was only flowing 300-310 g/s and on the BNR I'm flowing 330-340 g/s and still seeing very close whp numbers between the two. I guess it's possible that the car weighs a bit more than I figured and that could make a difference. I'm going to be going to the track Friday, so we will see what that brings.

My thoughts are that if it's a mechanical issue- injector seals or bad rings. I'm hitting 80% IDC though and when I was on e85 was hitting 100% IDC, which is why I switched back to 93.

[Vansquish]

Ahh! I misunderstood that. I thought you were saying it was a BNR S3 V2, not an S2. I understaaaaand now. If that's the case, then you're probably in pretty good shape. A 330/350 output isn't at all bad for that, especially given that you can run significantly higher boost to redline than on the K04. It's giving you a delta of around 60whp and 45wtq at redline. That's not bad at all.

[Gr8Speed]

Originally Posted by Vansquish Ahh! I misunderstood that. I thought you were saying it was a BNR S3 V2, not an S2. I understaaaaand now. If that's the case, then you're probably in pretty good shape. A 330/350 output isn't at all bad for that, especially given that you can run significantly higher boost to redline than on the K04.

Yeah, it seems everyone overlooks that haha! But I still do think it is odd that (although it's a calculated value) at 330 g/s I am making the same power I made at 300 g/s.

[Vansquish]

Maybe I'm not reading your Vdyno graph properly. Is Revision 1 the K04, or the BNRS2? Do you have a side-by-side comparison plot we could see?

[Gr8Speed]

Originally Posted by Vansquish Maybe I'm not reading your Vdyno graph properly. Is Revision 1 the K04, or the BNRS2? Do you have a side-by-side comparison plot we could see?

Comparison between my 3 set ups so far. These are all same road and the k04 runs are within 10* but probably 8-10* hotter.

Edit: The '08.5 (09) k04 is running pre-comp meth by the way.

[Vansquish]

Interesting... Have you had to alter the WOT MAF cal for anything since the BNR went in? If not, I'd say you're still doing reasonably well, as you're running a little less boost overall, and hitting numbers that are closer to your 24psi K04 tune than your 20psi-ish K04 tune. i.e., it looks like there's more headroom in the current setup (which there should be, I would think).

How is the S2 different from the K04? I know it's only supposed to be mildly modified, so maybe the differences in performance aren't going to be terrifically stark.

[Gr8Speed]

Originally Posted by Vansquish Interesting... Have you had to alter the WOT MAF cal for anything since the BNR went in? If not, I'd say you're still doing reasonably well, as you're running a little less boost overall, and hitting numbers that are closer to your 24psi K04 tune than your 20psi-ish K04 tune. i.e., it looks like there's more headroom in the current setup (which there should be, I would think). How is the S2 different from the K04? I know it's only supposed to be mildly modified, so maybe the differences in performance aren't going to be terrifically stark.

From what I've gathered almost every S2 is different. This one has a 2867 wheel in the "upgraded" housing used on the S3 with a k04 hotside. I do agree that it's somewhere between the two k04 tunes and the pre-turbo meth k04 was killed very quickly. So I guess it may just be that this is what it is. Either way, 330whp/350wtq and no smoking turbo all while getting 27-28mpg. If you look at a k04 compressor map compared to a 2867 compressor map, they're pretty similar.

Also didn't think of the MAF cal. I did have to adjust that a bit. Voltages look to be similar. 4.4 MAF v on the 2013 k04 and 4.5 MAF v on the BNR so they're pretty close. Can't believe I overlooked that.

[Vansquish]

The MAF calibration could be pretty relevant. My current MAF range in that area is:

Voltage:____4.41 ____ 4.45 _____ 4.49 ____ 4.53 _____ 4.57
MAF g/s: __ 291.65 __ 300.34 ___ 309.2 ___ 318.23 ___ 327.45

As you can see, a 0.1 difference in MAF voltage could be as much as ~30g/s on my calibration.

[Gr8Speed]

Originally Posted by Vansquish The MAF calibration could be pretty relevant. My current MAF range in that area is: Voltage:____4.41 ____ 4.45 _____ 4.49 ____ 4.53 _____ 4.57 MAF g/s: __ 291.65 __ 300.34 ___ 309.2 ___ 318.23 ___ 327.45 As you can see, a 0.1 difference in MAF voltage could be as much as ~30g/s on my calibration.

4.38 @ 306.15 4.41 @ 313.82 4.45 @ 324.25 4.49 @ 334.93 4.53 @ 345.87

That's how mine reads. I guess there is quite a bit of difference that high up in the curve. Could be a sensor clarity issue also as we are approaching 5 volts.

[Vansquish]

Originally Posted by Gr8Speed 4.38 @ 306.15 4.41 @ 313.82 4.45 @ 324.25 4.49 @ 334.93 4.53 @ 345.87 That's how mine reads. I guess there is quite a bit of difference that high up in the curve. Could be a sensor clarity issue also as we are approaching 5 volts.

Absolutely. It's all basically a bunch of interpolated B.S. up there anyway. That said, you can see how a 0.10 - 0.15 Voltage change could mean quite a lot of calculated g/s, even for your shallower curve in that region.

All I'm trying to get at is the idea that despite the fact that you appear to be hitting similar voltages, the MAF scaling may be allowing for quite a substantial g/s difference between those voltage values. In other words, it could just be "noise" in the data.

[Gr8Speed]

Originally Posted by Vansquish Absolutely. It's all basically a bunch of interpolated B.S. up there anyway. That said, you can see how a 0.10 - 0.15 Voltage change could mean quite a lot of calculated g/s, even for your shallower curve in that region. All I'm trying to get at is the idea that despite the fact that you appear to be hitting similar voltages, the MAF scaling may be allowing for quite a substantial g/s difference between those voltage values. In other words, it could just be "noise" in the data.

I guess time to stop thinking about it and just be glad it's not as slow as a Honda.


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[Vansquish]

Originally Posted by Gr8Speed I guess time to stop thinking about it and just be glad it's not as slow as a Honda. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I think the answer is actually to ramp up the boost a bit and hold a good 22-24psi across the range!

Smoke'em if you've got 'em! (Tires, that is...)

[Gr8Speed]

Originally Posted by Vansquish I think the answer is actually to ramp up the boost a bit and hold a good 22-24psi across the range! Smoke'em if you've got 'em! (Tires, that is...)

Hehe. That sounds like a terrible yet fun idea. This should be good.


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