[quote=redneck4Christ;2892118][QUOTE=maisonvi;2892093]... But to say something is engineered? No, you just need an engineer. ...Again, to be a licensed engineer or professional engineer, yes you need a PE. To be an engineer IMO you need an engineering degree.

Aaand a licensed PE can only claim to work as an "Engineer" in the state or states which they are licensed in. and in their field of expertise.

ie. I am only licensed in Texas, so I could not sign off on a JBR design in Illinois. I am a mechanical Engineer in the oilfield. I could not sign off on building plans or an HVAC design.

This is how the rest of the world interpretes it accept a few clowns here on MSF and I have a ME degree.

Our machine shop has several licensed engineers on staff. It's also a licensed provider of contract engineering services. Their primary business is for the US military. All of our designs are reviewed and approved by us both before going to final production. Will I provide the names and license #'s, fuck no. That is not information that will be shared by any company.

At least my company has licensed welders on staff and a mechanical engineer involved in the design and manufacturing. I know of at least one company on MSF,who receives a lot of praise around here that has neither.

So in summary....You can all suck it. Our parts are "Engineered" in the US.

When did this forum become so gay? If you don't like his shit, fuck off. He isn't making anyone buy anything.

This. To clarify the term being used is my only goal. it is Not my intention to bad mouth any of our vendors. I apologize if I came off that way.

If this is one of your "Goals" you have issues.

Here's a goal for ya....Stop this shit, work towards making this forum what it once was. Be grateful you still have vendors willing to support this dying platform. Call me silly but those might just be productive goals.

We take a dozen calls a day from guys saying "I can't stand MSF, can you help me?"

You can see it in the declining membership, you can see it in the declining donations, you can see the assholes in this thread are brown. This place has turned to shit. The few of you that once contributed to advancing the platform, now shit on it.

Rough to call people proud of their profession clowns

Lol apparently I'm an asshole too. You have quite the way with customer service

Anybody remember that time they were in the ER and they asked the doctor saving their life for their credentials? Yeah me either.

@jbarone

Apology sent. I like your company and products. I have your parts on my car. I have nothing ill to say about this part.

And I did not intend to single you out among the various vendors.

My intention was not to shit on you or bad mouth you and I apologize if I offended you.
-Jason

Considering how this thread turned into a shitstorm, I can see the response is blunt and not sugar coated. But when accusations fly over and over, you get kind of sick of it. I would have been more specific on who can suck it not to make it an everyone. I guess those who need to suck it, can.

Apology accepted but not needed. I know you're a good guy.

I think you understand where I'm coming from and the need for the behavior of a few needs to be changed. This forum needs to change.

I may paint with a broad brush but those whom I've pointed out know who they are.

This is a terrible analogy but I'll play along. Remember when you went to a doctor and they didn't have a license to practice medicine? Would that bother you?

As far as this thread goes there are enough engineers that have posted that think using the word "engineered" without meeting the criteria is an issue to make it sound like a legitimate concern even if it doesn't mean the parts are bad. Easter Bunny may be a troll but Ziggo, Silvapain, and redneck all seem like reasonable people.

Finally, if it's true that the part designs are approved by the machine shop that does consulting and has a licensed engineer I'm not sure why that wasn't the reply to the original question instead of being passive aggressive. Just a minimum amount of customer service seems like it would have avoided all of this.

(Trying to steer back on topic.)
Good lookin plate ya got there, jbarone! Any other colors you are thinking about offering? Red is one of your standards.
Maybe brown for us asshats?

That is frustrating, to say the least. Just for comparison, rallysportdirect has 18 sway-bar options available for a 2010 WRX. They have 4 available for an MS3 in the same model year. It would be great to see reputable manufacturers, like Perrin for example, approach the Mazda platform.

Can everyone put their engineering dicks away, please? You're not "just curious". You very well know it is unlikely they have done such analysis.

These few clowns and the law......

So then if answer is yes, a PE has approved the designs and there is no issue with using the term engineer and it's varients. That's all that needed to be said really.

I was only clarifying that yes the term engineer IS a protected term by law, no matter it's common perception, or how people feel about it.

I take issue with it because of some other companies that use the same term (which I brought up when I was made aware) produced camber arms that proceeded to have failures because of a pretty basic mechanical design flaw, insufficient thread engagement, which any buisness that was actually following the licsencing requirements should have caught. Shit like this degrades the term engineer to mean "it mostly fits, who knows what will happen next" instead of "we actually thought about the design requirements and how to meet them before selling you a product"

Other example being use of adhesive in an intake without proper design review..

I use your products and have been very happy with them it's not meant to be a knock on the quality

Good thought. I kinda wish the same. If there was a way to clean up all the bullshit, have the question, and quick answer without extras, I would myself clean this thread up. But I can see it looking weird for a guy in 2 years to come into the thread and see a "you can all suck it" to the 1 question, and all the deleted posts not seen.

Pretty easy way to clean up the BS, stop making parts for the platform causing the BS.

Sad that most of MSF will not know how well you know of the FIRST of TWO camber arm product fails.

There are companies that use the term "engineer" in their name and nobody has a problem, apparently (sips tea), but that is none of my business.

I do not want to delete much though, many get sore over it.

But if @jbarone; cleaned up the response to not be so harsh, and wanted me or any mod to, how many would be opposed to having 2 pages of negativity get cleaned up to a quick answer? All but a few, I bet.

With 90 degree nozzle holders, 3 of the 4 ports can be utilized with this spacer and the stock manifold on the MS3. All 4 ports can be used on the Focus ST with the stick manifold as well as all aftermarket manifolds.

@Raider; To be honest I'd rather see all of this 2 years from now then only see the clean up, like you said.

I'd much rather a vendor come and swing away with us and defend himself then to just groan the complaint and disappear or ignore it.

Also I would argue that there is probably a discrepancy between actually titling and declaring oneself an engineer and stating that a product has been "engineered". Without the credentials it likely is, and should be, illegal to declare oneself an engineer. But to use the term engineered for its immediate comprehension and intent for marketing purposes is probably a very gray area at best.

In the end I mean if MDM doesn't GAF, why should we? let them hash it out if there comeuppances to be dealt.

If a company claims a parts engineered, then provide said proof when asked. I'm not sure why it's difficult to comprehend?

Just as a refresher this was the only question i posed. I have no complaints about this product nor do i feel that the design requires an engineer to approve it. If the product was engineered, fine the text is fine the way it is. If it was not engineered then the promotional materials should not state that it was.

When everyone with a welder and a chop saw can claim to have "engineered" something this is how we are perceived as a profession.

I never said that you did, it appears that some people took my post as an excuse to go full bore with you on some separate beef. I don't give a shit if you did copy someone else's product its not my fucking problem. For what it is worth, your shift plate was the first thing i installed on my car in 2009 and its still there working the same as the first day.

I have no ax to grind with any particular vendor, my beef is with vendors and manufactures misrepresenting themselves as members of my profession.

this exactly, agree with it or not there are laws in every state in this county which govern who and in what context you are able to claim to be an engineer or to have engineered something.

Its unprofessional, and it creates confusion in the marketplace. an uniformed person comparing parts would assume that the truthfully advertised design was somehow inferior to the dishonestly advertised "engineered" part.

Any engineer that truly stands behind a design they have approved would have no problem providing a license number. My number appears on every plan, computation and letter that i sign. doing otherwise would indicate that i am not willing to risk my license on the design.

funny how in one thread you have gone from stating that you don't need an engineer to engineer something but magically you employing a licensed welder makes your welding superior. Are you saying that unless you are licensed you cant competently perform the work?

You could have simply stated that your machine shop has licensed engineers on staff, that would have ended this all right there. instead you chose to be a dick since one time i agreed with @Tokay444; in one of your threads. He may have a beef with you but i am not him. (thank god, if i had to live in Canada i would kill myself)

This is the same for me, i had no intention of turning this into a flame war. I was trying to be as polite as possible in my original question. to which you chose to be a dick in response even though you had the answer that would have resolved all of this.

thankfully i have never had a true traumatic injury that would have been a dire emergency, but every time i go to the doctors, dentist, hospital etc i do look for certifications on the wall or at the hospital read name tags to determine qualifications and decide if i am confident in their ability to perform the task they are present for.

Thank you for being honest about what you are, i'm glad that someone in this thread is.

This is all that i ever wanted. Thank you for posting.

Thank you for being honest about what you are, i'm glad that someone in this thread is.


This all being said, i think that i should make clear that i have no vendetta against any manufacturer. I have JBR, Corksport, CP-e, and Damond Motorsports parts on my car. and i purchase the CP-e mount through Street Unit. I have been pleased with all of my dealing and the parts i received. My only goal is clarify the meaning of the word engineered and to ensure that it is being used correctly.
@redneck4Christ; and i have been in a separate discussion where i will be attempting to outline all of this in one place where it does not unfairly target individual parts manufacturers.

disclosing a license number would disclose who the engineers are and who we use to do our engineering and manufacturing...not going to happen.