New Product Release!! MS3/6 and Focus ST Throttle Body Meth Injection Spacer

[JBR]

Details:
Need to reduce boost air temperatures? Want to prevent unwanted knock retard? Need to safely increase timing and increase HP? Then you need to spray meth!



Now no longer do you have to drill and tap your cold side piping or manifold. The JBR Methanol Injection Throttle Body Spacer is quickly and easily installed between the throttle body and intake manifold and everything is included. It has 4, 1/8" NPT ports and can be equipped with up to 4 injector nozzles to meet the specific needs of your build.



The JBR Methanol Injection Throttle Body Spacer is CNC machined from 6061 aluminum then a beautiful black anodized coating is applied.



Also included is one of our Thermal Insulating Throttle body gaskets! This will help to further reduce boost air temperatures and makes the JBR Methanol Injection Spacer the best value on the market.



Application:
2013 & up Ford Focus ST
2006-2013 MAZDASPEED 3/6 & CX7

Features:

• Designed, Engineered and Manufactured in the USA
• Black anodized finish for long-lasting corrosion-free protection
• Thermal Insulating gasket included (No need to purchase an additional gasket)

The kit includes:

• 1, Throttle Body Meth Injection Spacer
• 1, Thermal insulating throttle body gasket ($25.00 value)
• 4, Stainless 1/8" NPT hex plugs
• 4, 6mm-1.0 x 75mm socket cap head bolts
• 4, 6mm flat washers
• Installation instructions are available in our support section
• Shipping is free in the US & our Hassle Free Lifetime Warranty is included

[Easter Bunny]

What is the license number of the engineer that approved this design? @redneck4Christ;

[JBR]

What's the problem now?

[Easter Bunny]

I just want to know if you hired an engineer that approved this "engineered" design. The last time we discussed this you did not have a licensed engineer on staff. That is all.

[Raider]

Oh for fuck sake, give it a rest.

[JBR]

Originally Posted by Easter Bunny I just want to know if you hired an engineer that approved this "engineered" design. The last time we discussed this you did not have a licensed engineer on staff. That is all.

Last time we discussed this I made it clear to you that you don't need to be a licensed engineer to "engineer" anything. Memory slipping?

[Easter Bunny]

You gave me you opinion which is in conflict with the laws of the state of Illinois. Still haven't taken the time to figure it out have you?

Originally Posted by Raider Oh for fuck sake, give it a rest.

I wish I could. I thought this site was against false advertising I am merely holding up that standard.

[Gr8Speed]

en·gi·neer
ˌenjəˈnir/
noun
1.
a person who designs, builds, or maintains engines, machines, or public works.
synonyms: originator, deviser, designer, architect, inventor, developer, creator; mastermind
"the prime engineer of the approach"
verb
1.
design and build (a machine or structure).
"the men who engineered the tunnel"



FWIW, unless you are charging for engineering services (IE contract engineer), it is not required by any state that you are licensed. Unless you are requesting engineering services, I fail to see a connection here with licensing. If you want to question the fact that JBR did in fact "design and build a machine or structure", that's a whole new level of crazy.

[Easter Bunny]

Originally Posted by Gr8Speed en·gi·neer ˌenjəˈnir/ noun 1. a person who designs, builds, or maintains engines, machines, or public works. synonyms: originator, deviser, designer, architect, inventor, developer, creator; mastermind "the prime engineer of the approach" verb 1. design and build (a machine or structure). "the men who engineered the tunnel" FWIW, unless you are charging for engineering services (IE contract engineer), it is not required by any state that you are licensed. Unless you are requesting engineering services, I fail to see a connection here with licensing. If you want to question the fact that JBR did in fact "design and build a machine or structure", that's a whole new level of crazy.

I wouldn't expect a 19 year old nutswingger to get it.

[Gr8Speed]

Nutswinging aside, here's the part. It looks good. It performs even better. I could give a fuck less what some douche behind a keyboard thinks.

[JBR]

Originally Posted by Easter Bunny I wouldn't expect a 19 year old nutswingger to get it.

Why don't you explain it to the rest of us? You seem to know something no one else does? Common explain it.

[acousticdefbot]

this is how i imagine easter bunny:



<3

[ihasmazda]

lol exactly... I seriously doubt any of the already available spacers are professionally 'engineered', it's a damn spacer.

[JgamB]

Well I think that is the agenda - it's more ammo for people saying JBR blatantly copies parts. I realize most of this stuff doesn't get patented and it's an open market, but that is still going to rub some people the wrong way.

Regardless, my Silicone FMIC piping is fully original, fits greats, flows great, and was a great value. If someone else made a similar kit for a few bucks less, that would be competition and it drives every industry.

[Raider]

I would not say that's the plan. They did it to Corksport in the lightweight pulley thread.

It will be interesting to see every single vendor get the same treatment. So far, it's not happening.

[JBR]

We haven't copied shit. The same parts for the same car are all going to look the same. This spacer is an extrusion of the thermal gasket we've been making for 5 years.



Is this not a copy?

[JgamB]

I had someone say I ripped off their ECU relocate design (wasn't even me selling them). I was unaware they existed. The guy hadn't made any for 2 years AFAIK so I'd never seen one - and yeah you're right, there are only so many ways to skin a cat.

[knocturnal]

Damn by the time i am done FOMOCO will all be replaced by JBR

[Deldran]

Originally Posted by ihasmazda lol exactly... I seriously doubt any of the already available spacers are professionally 'engineered', it's a damn spacer.

I know of one. Looks really similar to this one. Curious.

[Awal]

Originally Posted by JgamB I had someone say I ripped off their ECU relocate design (wasn't even me selling them). I was unaware they existed. The guy hadn't made any for 2 years AFAIK so I'd never seen one - and yeah you're right, there are only so many ways to skin a cat.

So true, especially in very tight engine bays most parts, whether mass produced or custom, have certain dimensions to work within and certain design principle to work around.

I for one don't want parts looking different just for the sake of looking different, I want each manufacturer to make the most efficient parts possible.

It certainly doesn't take a certified engineer to make most of the performance parts we bolt on to our cars. With the right tools and metal/silicone stock and an understanding of the tools/machines/software, any Joe blow who is not retarded can craft almost anything. 3D printing is making it even easier for the common person to make decent parts for almost anything.

[Gr8Speed]

So to entertain the idea that this spacer is the same as the Damond one, wouldn't deductive reasoning dictate that since this spacer was designed off of JBR's TIG (which has been sold before Damond was even around), Damond's spacer is just a copy of JBR's design?

Holy shit that is a long sentence.

And to further that point- aren't we all just copying Mazda? Their designs look pretty similar too.

[doubleflusher]

Originally Posted by xfeejayx Sounds like a yes from you? @Raider;?

No.

The rules are in place for a reason.

[Awal]

Both of your spacers are similar but they are definitely different. It's not worth fighting over, just let the end users decide. Shit slinging does very little in terms of convincing me (end user) which way to go with as far as manufacturer's are concerned.

Competition drives all good markets to greatness in the end.

There will always be stuff that looks like a copy of another company's shit. But as I said earlier, for most parts there is only so much deviation that can take place. It's hard to corner the market on a pieces that can so easily be recreated by a friendly machine shop w/ a cple measurements/pics..

[esr010]

Hey this looks like a sweet spacer. Just another option on the market with a good vendor. I'm considering meth and could use this.

Let's get this under control. This thread feels like this...

uploadfromtaptalk1433389467867.jpg

[acousticdefbot]

i think vendors just need to stop tearing each other down. it's great entertainment, but you all are businesses and should conduct yourselves in a strictly business fashion when posting from your vendor accounts. this includes restraining yourselves from taking thinly veiled shots at one another when making posts under your own vendor pages, or when interacting both as and with the general public. i don't go around to my rival companies telling them how much they suck and how shitty their business tactics are. you all provide solid products at reasonable prices, i.e options for a very small and exclusive market. your business is not theirs and vice versa. shut the fuck up and continue working to make me go faster.

[danmillerok]

Originally Posted by acousticdefbot i think vendors just need to stop tearing each other down. it's great entertainment, but you all are businesses and should conduct yourselves in a strictly business fashion when posting from your vendor accounts. this includes restraining yourselves from taking thinly veiled shots at one another when making posts under your own vendor pages, or when interacting both as and with the general public. i don't go around to my rival companies telling them how much they suck and how shitty their business tactics are. you all provide solid products at reasonable prices, i.e options for a very small and exclusive market. your business is not theirs and vice versa. shut the fuck up and continue working to make me go faster.

Maybe I missed it but I haven't seen any vendors fighting it out. There are some members that seem to have an axe to grind with certain vendors.

I'll choose to abstain from commenting on whether that is appropriate or not.

[acousticdefbot]

meh. i saw another vendor prepared to chime in. I'm not saying they were prepared to start bashing, but i've seen that type of behavior from a few of them before, so the sentiment is applicable. stay out of each other's business.

[redneck4Christ]

Originally Posted by Easter Bunny I just want to know if you hired an engineer that approved this "engineered" design. The last time we discussed this you did not have a licensed engineer on staff. That is all.

Originally Posted by Raider I would not say that's the plan. They did it to Corksport in the lightweight pulley thread. It will be interesting to see every single vendor get the same treatment. So far, it's not happening.

Raider is right Easter Bunny. If we are going to get onto one or two vendors, we ought to get onto all of them.
But going back to your original comments, I don't think you are questioning the integrity of the design or saying one company copied another, just trying to clarify the common, but incorrect use of a term that has a specific meaning.
For a company to advertise that it "Engineers" or sells "Engineered" products, it has to have a licensed Professional Engineer that was involved in the design. The PE can be on staff or contracted to review specific designs. This requirement is most obvious in Civil Engineering, but is valid in the other engineering fields as well. A local firm (competitor to the mechanical engineering company I work for) was desperately looking to hire a PE after the one they had quit or moved. They wanted to still be able to call themselves an engineering firm.

If JBR's original statement was "Designed and Manufactured in the USA" instead of "Designed, Engineered, and Manufactured in the USA" then we would not be having this discussion.
One word. That's all.


PS. Design looks good JBR.

PPS. @jbarone, My wife is a licensed PE (as I am) and recently retired from an automotive firm. Perhaps you could contract with her to review and approve your designs. Then you could say they were "Engineered".

[siegsuwa]

Only one vendor posted a picture of a competing product and suggested it was a copy. While this isn't the proper forum for such a discussion, it's pretty fair for the vendor of previously stated competing product to want to respond to such allegations. To be "called out" and denied response isn't great, but as stated the rules are in place for a reason, and it's probably better that way.

Looks like a decent TB spacer.

[Raider]

If 1 msf vendor has s dispute with another vendor, this is not the thread. We have a vendor discussion section to discuss it first. You cannot post in another vendor's section.

I have emailed, reported the thread, and even texted @Haltech; for input on this. I think Halbot will be posting industry news before he actually steps in to decide what to do on his forum.

[maisonvi]

Engineered.

I still stick by you dont need PE to have something engineered. You need a PE to have something professionally engineered. To be engineered you need someone with an engineering degree.

This is just my opinion, but in the ME world outside of areospace, I think a PE is a waste of my time and money.

[silvapain]

The engineering is sub-par IMHO.

The "Thermal Insulating Throttle Body Gaskets" are pointless, as there is no need to thermally isolate the TB from the IM, especially if running methanol/water injection.

[maisonvi]

Originally Posted by silvapain The engineering is sub-par IMHO. The "Thermal Insulating Throttle Body Gaskets" are pointless, as there is no need to thermally isolate the TB from the IM, especially if running methanol/water injection.

I will say from having making my own that has the same positions as this one, the other supplier that has them on an angle gives you much more mounting options. The throttle body and intake manifold block off 3 of the 4 ports from use on mine.

[Ziggo]

It's a licensing board just like the board for lawyers and the medical board for doctors. It's just not as well enforced, but those of us that are actually engineers are well aware of it. It's like if supplements were in the market as being doctor approved when no such thing occured. "Engineer" and it's varients are protected terms, in so much that you can't imply you are providing engineering services, or engineered products without a licensed engineer review.

It's not commonly enforced, but that doesn't mean is not illegal. The difference between "engineered" and "professionally engineered" is taking money for the work.

(225 ILCS 325/40) (from Ch. 111, par. 5240)
(Section scheduled to be repealed on January 1, 2020)
Sec. 40. Unlawful practice. It is unlawful for any person, sole proprietorship, professional service corporation, corporation, limited liability company, or partnership, or other entity to practice professional engineering, advertise or display any sign or card or other device which might indicate to the public that the person or entity is entitled to practice as a professional engineer, or use the initials "P.E.," or use the title "engineer" or any of its derivations, unless such person holds an active license as a professional engineer in the State of Illinois, or such professional service corporation, corporation, limited liability company, partnership, sole proprietorship, or other entity is in compliance with Section 23 of this Act.

[silvapain]

Originally Posted by Ziggo It's a licensing board just like the board for lawyers and the medical board for doctors. It's just not as well enforced, but those of us that are actually engineers are well aware of it. It's like if supplements were in the market as being doctor approved when no such thing occured. "Engineer" and it's varients are protected terms, in so much that you can't imply you are providing engineering services, or engineered products without a licensed engineer review. It's not commonly enforced, but that doesn't mean is not illegal. The difference between "engineered" and "professionally engineered" is taking money for the work. (225 ILCS 325/40) (from Ch. 111, par. 5240) (Section scheduled to be repealed on January 1, 2020) Sec. 40. Unlawful practice. It is unlawful for any person, sole proprietorship, professional service corporation, corporation, limited liability company, or partnership, or other entity to practice professional engineering, advertise or display any sign or card or other device which might indicate to the public that the person or entity is entitled to practice as a professional engineer, or use the initials "P.E.," or use the title "engineer" or any of its derivations, unless such person holds an active license as a professional engineer in the State of Illinois, or such professional service corporation, corporation, limited liability company, partnership, sole proprietorship, or other entity is in compliance with Section 23 of this Act.

^As an engineer, this. Any company that claims "engineered" or uses the word in their name or marketing without a licensed PE on staff loses credibility and respect in my eyes.

[Raider]

Originally Posted by maisonvi I will say from having making my own that has the same positions as this one, the other supplier that has them on an angle gives you much more mounting options. The throttle body and intake manifold block off 3 of the 4 ports from use on mine.

Yeah, well the debate in the Corksport thread basically said even if you have an engineer, does not count.

The only easy way to kill this, is just for @jbarone; to stop using "engineered" in the products made, and just let the consumer decide what to buy.

There are a LOT of companies out there making very similar products to what JBR ,HTP, DM, CS, CPe and one and one, but not getting the negative attention that these vendors are. Hell, I see some getting praised for their stuff.

This is just a subject that really needs the forum owner needs to step up and make a decision on how we handle this.

[maisonvi]

Originally Posted by silvapain ^As an engineer, this. Any company that claims "engineered" or uses the word in their name or marketing without a licensed PE on staff loses credibility and respect in my eyes.

Again, I think a PE is a waste of time. Hell in some states you dont even have to have an engineering degree to earn a PE. Yes, I think if a certification is required for a job then yes, you need a PE. But to say something is engineered? No, you just need an engineer.

Edit: this probably isnt the place for this discussion. Mods, feel free to remove my posts if needed.

[Raider]

And I am gonna sit here on my front porch rocking chair, and just spit this out.

Before MSF, there was 3 forums. And when the MS3 came out, 1 member there, Jazzy, made a Jazzy Plate, and posted specs for those to make em, as that user could not do it professionally. It was crude, very crude. The initial reviews went from positive, to heh, as shifting linkage boots were getting torn. Well, I know a couple companies made and revised short shift plates afterwards. Then everyone and their mother made em. Everyone claims to be original, but I remember the old Jazzy plate. Was it patented? Nope. It was never developed past a few very basic pieces.

I also remember when Mazda3Mod's (David from Kozmic Motorsports first company) FMIC came out, and fitted like balls but worked, it was not patented. When that company fizzled out, the plans were sold to Protege Garage, and revised 4 times before CX-Racing got a set and knocked it off. Then all of China got a set, and knocked it off again. So the kit went from 800 to 500 to 250 bucks. But nobody is upset about buying this knockoff. Everyone with a CX-Racing is buying something that is a copy, and nobody bats an eye. Corksport and JBR use "engineered" in describing how they made something, everyone loses their mind.

When I talk to companies that make stuff for other makes and models, like WRX and Evo about making something for us (stuff not even out), they tell me "not interested" before I can even talk to them. When I ask why, they speak of directly about MSF, and the pretty negative culture that defines MSF.

Our culture is our past. Our current membership is our community. We cannot change the past. our community can change how we are viewed, and ultimately change the view of our culture. If we expect as a forum, and a community, to survive, something has gotta change.

[redneck4Christ]

[QUOTE=maisonvi;2892093]... But to say something is engineered? No, you just need an engineer. ...[QUOTE]

yes, and to be an engineer requires said license.
For my first 13 years in industry, I had an engineering degree, I worked at an engineering firm, I worked With engineers (some non-degreed), but I could not call myself an engineer until I jumped thru the hoops to get my license. I had to call myself a "Technical Professional" or an "Engineer-In-Training".
And it Pissed me off.

And now I've had to call out two companies that I'm a fan of (and will still buy from). FML

[redneck4Christ]

FWIW, I don't think a spacer/injection plate such as this requires a full engineering analysis. Basic mechanical design is plenty sufficient. It is not a highly stressed item. A car guy who spends his weekends at the track or in the garage could design this part as well or probably better than a PE sitting behind a desk.

But, since @jbarone claims that this part was Engineered, I am curious what engineering analysis or calculations were done? stress, thermal conductivity, thermal expansion, etc?

Just curious.